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-   -   MKS Pedal Cage Removal with Rivets? (https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/1224511-mks-pedal-cage-removal-rivets.html)

niswanger 02-25-21 09:40 AM

MKS Pedal Cage Removal with Rivets?
 
Hey gang,

Coming up short on google and this forum. I'd like to completely restore some MKS pedals that have riveted cages (sand/buff/anodize) and want to know if I can remove the rivets? I would imagine they are actually threaded screws with the heads machined smooth and if so then simple Dremel notch should be able to remove them. I know what you're thinking...insane, borderline stupid, but they are my pedals, not yours :) I would re-install with SS bolts and a turned down crown head screw (I do this sort of thing all the time on my mini-machine lathe). I couldn't imagine they are actually pop rivets as the anchor is a solid piece. Rivets are designed to be a substrate-through application/process so the pin when pulled through budges out the backside of the rivet making the substrate/piece captive together. Just wondering. Thank you.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/mo...qDfTCOOo=w2400

Velo Mule 02-25-21 10:08 AM

Those rivets are not pop rivets. They were cast into the center body of the pedal and looked like pins. Then the cage was placed over these eight pins. Next a machine was used (they could have used a hammer and rivet set, but not for production) to apply force to deform the tops of the pins into the button shape that you see.

If you grind off or drill the rivets out, you can remove the cage. You can then, carefully mark the hole locations in the cage on the center body and drill and tap new holes where the rivets were. M5 screws might be the correct size. And then use M5 screws to fasten the cages to the center body.

It is a lot of work. You should be able to get it pretty clean without removing the cages.

If you do go with redrilling for screws, get pictures and post here.

niswanger 02-25-21 10:13 AM


Originally Posted by Velo Mule (Post 21940906)
Those rivets are not pop rivets. They were cast into the center body of the pedal and looked like pins. Then the cage was placed over these eight pins. Next a machine was used (they could have used a hammer and rivet set, but not for production) to apply force to deform the tops of the pins into the button shape that you see.

If you grind off or drill the rivets out, you can remove the cage. You can then, carefully mark the hole locations in the cage on the center body and drill and tap new holes where the rivets were. M5 screws might be the correct size. And then use M5 screws to fasten the cages to the center body.

It is a lot of work. You should be able to get it pretty clean without removing the cages.

If you do go with redrilling for screws, get pictures and post here.

Darn, would be interesting to know why this method? To me, both from a manufacturing process and service ability screws would have been better. Yes I can get them fairly clean, but I need to have the cage removed to get a proper surface prep on the body and cage to have the best anodize result (which will be black dyed cages, turns out sort of smokey colored and zero dye/clear on the body). Yes I can certainly do the machine work to make this happen, it's not just a matter if I want to run down that path? Thank you for responding.

oneclick 02-25-21 10:18 AM


Originally Posted by Velo Mule (Post 21940906)
M5 screws might be the correct size. And then use M5 screws to fasten the cages to the center body.

Rule-of-thumb for tapped hole wall thickness is 3x thread depth, so for 5x0.8 he'll need about a 10mm web thickness. If he uses 4x.07 that comes down to about 8mm.

Ferrouscious 02-25-21 10:24 AM


Originally Posted by niswanger (Post 21940916)
Darn, would be interesting to know why this method? To me, both from a manufacturing process and service ability screws would have been better.

Less expensive.

IsleRide 02-25-21 10:25 AM


Originally Posted by niswanger (Post 21940916)
Darn, would be interesting to know why this method? To me, both from a manufacturing process and service ability screws would have been better. Yes I can get them fairly clean, but I need to have the cage removed to get a proper surface prep on the body and cage to have the best anodize result (which will be black dyed cages, turns out sort of smokey colored and zero dye/clear on the body). Yes I can certainly do the machine work to make this happen, it's not just a matter if I want to run down that path? Thank you for responding.

Because these are inexpensive $30 non-servicable pedals. I use them myself and they're one of my favorites. MKS does make what you are pining for but you gotta pay the price.

Noted that your pedals are not the "touring" pedals but same upgrades are available with the wrap-around cages.

https://www.somafabshop.com/shop/pro...0?category=981

niswanger 02-25-21 10:25 AM


Originally Posted by oneclick (Post 21940928)
Rule-of-thumb for tapped hole wall thickness is 3x thread depth, so for 5x0.8 he'll need about a 10mm web thickness. If he uses 4x.07 that comes down to about 8mm.

Yes sir, based on dia of rivet it's going to be close. These are times where leave the patina alone come into play :)

pcb 02-25-21 12:26 PM

From a mfr process standpoint it's much faster/cheaper to stamp them. Less precision required, less machining required, fewer parts to source. I can't see any reason using screws and a threaded pedal body would be better from a mfr standpoint.

In terms of serviceability, these were lower-end, lower-priced pedals that weren't designed to be serviceable aside from bearing overhaul and spindle replacement. They were $10 retail-ish items in the '70s-'80s. The pedals with replaceable cages were $50 retail back then.

And fwiw, Campy NR/SR pedals had stamped cages throughout their production run. If you bashed/smashed your Campy pedals bad enough to damage the cage enough to make them unridable, you replaced them. If the cages just looked bent and ugly but you could still ride them, you rode them. Or replaced them.

Also fwiw, at Suntour we had lots of complaints from dealers that consumers were trashing their Spb Pro pedals trying to replace the cages. Lots of stripped screws and unhappy buyers.


Originally Posted by niswanger (Post 21940916)
Darn, would be interesting to know why this method? To me, both from a manufacturing process and service ability screws would have been better. Yes I can get them fairly clean, but I need to have the cage removed to get a proper surface prep on the body and cage to have the best anodize result (which will be black dyed cages, turns out sort of smokey colored and zero dye/clear on the body). Yes I can certainly do the machine work to make this happen, it's not just a matter if I want to run down that path? Thank you for responding.


repechage 02-25-21 02:14 PM

Serviceability was conceived of repacking the bearings.

merziac 02-26-21 02:01 AM


Originally Posted by niswanger (Post 21940916)
Darn, would be interesting to know why this method? To me, both from a manufacturing process and service ability screws would have been better. Yes I can get them fairly clean, but I need to have the cage removed to get a proper surface prep on the body and cage to have the best anodize result (which will be black dyed cages, turns out sort of smokey colored and zero dye/clear on the body). Yes I can certainly do the machine work to make this happen, it's not just a matter if I want to run down that path? Thank you for responding.

You may want to try to reach out to Jim Merz, he recently had new cages made for some Campy BMX pedals and had to anodize, bend and rivet them back on.

While I have no reason to doubt your skill, I do know that this sort of thing is not successfully accomplished by mere mortals, they were built that way to be bullitproof.

Jim is one of the few people that can get this done with the same results as the factory, he may be willing to advise.

He has a FB page and the pedals he did are back in Feb. 2020, good luck. ;)


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