Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

MKS Pedal Cage Removal with Rivets?

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

MKS Pedal Cage Removal with Rivets?

Old 02-25-21, 09:40 AM
  #1  
niswanger
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
niswanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Round Rock, TX
Posts: 60

Bikes: About 5, maybe 6?

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
MKS Pedal Cage Removal with Rivets?

Hey gang,

Coming up short on google and this forum. I'd like to completely restore some MKS pedals that have riveted cages (sand/buff/anodize) and want to know if I can remove the rivets? I would imagine they are actually threaded screws with the heads machined smooth and if so then simple Dremel notch should be able to remove them. I know what you're thinking...insane, borderline stupid, but they are my pedals, not yours I would re-install with SS bolts and a turned down crown head screw (I do this sort of thing all the time on my mini-machine lathe). I couldn't imagine they are actually pop rivets as the anchor is a solid piece. Rivets are designed to be a substrate-through application/process so the pin when pulled through budges out the backside of the rivet making the substrate/piece captive together. Just wondering. Thank you.

niswanger is offline  
Old 02-25-21, 10:08 AM
  #2  
Velo Mule
Senior Member
 
Velo Mule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,121

Bikes: Trek 800 x 2, Schwinn Heavy Duti, Electra Cantilever, Schwinn Traveler, Schwinn Le Tour Luxe, Schwinn World, Schwinn Continental

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 365 Post(s)
Liked 271 Times in 208 Posts
Those rivets are not pop rivets. They were cast into the center body of the pedal and looked like pins. Then the cage was placed over these eight pins. Next a machine was used (they could have used a hammer and rivet set, but not for production) to apply force to deform the tops of the pins into the button shape that you see.

If you grind off or drill the rivets out, you can remove the cage. You can then, carefully mark the hole locations in the cage on the center body and drill and tap new holes where the rivets were. M5 screws might be the correct size. And then use M5 screws to fasten the cages to the center body.

It is a lot of work. You should be able to get it pretty clean without removing the cages.

If you do go with redrilling for screws, get pictures and post here.
Velo Mule is offline  
Old 02-25-21, 10:13 AM
  #3  
niswanger
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
niswanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Round Rock, TX
Posts: 60

Bikes: About 5, maybe 6?

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by Velo Mule View Post
Those rivets are not pop rivets. They were cast into the center body of the pedal and looked like pins. Then the cage was placed over these eight pins. Next a machine was used (they could have used a hammer and rivet set, but not for production) to apply force to deform the tops of the pins into the button shape that you see.

If you grind off or drill the rivets out, you can remove the cage. You can then, carefully mark the hole locations in the cage on the center body and drill and tap new holes where the rivets were. M5 screws might be the correct size. And then use M5 screws to fasten the cages to the center body.

It is a lot of work. You should be able to get it pretty clean without removing the cages.

If you do go with redrilling for screws, get pictures and post here.
Darn, would be interesting to know why this method? To me, both from a manufacturing process and service ability screws would have been better. Yes I can get them fairly clean, but I need to have the cage removed to get a proper surface prep on the body and cage to have the best anodize result (which will be black dyed cages, turns out sort of smokey colored and zero dye/clear on the body). Yes I can certainly do the machine work to make this happen, it's not just a matter if I want to run down that path? Thank you for responding.
niswanger is offline  
Old 02-25-21, 10:18 AM
  #4  
oneclick 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,006
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 349 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 336 Times in 216 Posts
Originally Posted by Velo Mule View Post
M5 screws might be the correct size. And then use M5 screws to fasten the cages to the center body.
Rule-of-thumb for tapped hole wall thickness is 3x thread depth, so for 5x0.8 he'll need about a 10mm web thickness. If he uses 4x.07 that comes down to about 8mm.
oneclick is offline  
Likes For oneclick:
Old 02-25-21, 10:24 AM
  #5  
Ferrouscious 
Some Weirdo
 
Ferrouscious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Rexburg, ID
Posts: 491

Bikes: '86 Maruishi Excellence, '86 Schwinn Prelude, '88 Cannondale SR2000, '74 C. Itoh "Racer"

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 218 Post(s)
Liked 133 Times in 85 Posts
Originally Posted by niswanger View Post
Darn, would be interesting to know why this method? To me, both from a manufacturing process and service ability screws would have been better.
Less expensive.
__________________
Somewhere, a village is missing its idiot.
Ferrouscious is offline  
Old 02-25-21, 10:25 AM
  #6  
IsleRide 
Senior Member
 
IsleRide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Western MA
Posts: 228
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 74 Post(s)
Liked 69 Times in 45 Posts
Originally Posted by niswanger View Post
Darn, would be interesting to know why this method? To me, both from a manufacturing process and service ability screws would have been better. Yes I can get them fairly clean, but I need to have the cage removed to get a proper surface prep on the body and cage to have the best anodize result (which will be black dyed cages, turns out sort of smokey colored and zero dye/clear on the body). Yes I can certainly do the machine work to make this happen, it's not just a matter if I want to run down that path? Thank you for responding.
Because these are inexpensive $30 non-servicable pedals. I use them myself and they're one of my favorites. MKS does make what you are pining for but you gotta pay the price.

Noted that your pedals are not the "touring" pedals but same upgrades are available with the wrap-around cages.

https://www.somafabshop.com/shop/pro...0?category=981

Last edited by IsleRide; 02-25-21 at 10:34 AM.
IsleRide is offline  
Old 02-25-21, 10:25 AM
  #7  
niswanger
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
niswanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Round Rock, TX
Posts: 60

Bikes: About 5, maybe 6?

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by oneclick View Post
Rule-of-thumb for tapped hole wall thickness is 3x thread depth, so for 5x0.8 he'll need about a 10mm web thickness. If he uses 4x.07 that comes down to about 8mm.
Yes sir, based on dia of rivet it's going to be close. These are times where leave the patina alone come into play
niswanger is offline  
Old 02-25-21, 12:26 PM
  #8  
pcb 
Senior Member
 
pcb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Joisey
Posts: 1,347
Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 314 Post(s)
Liked 466 Times in 215 Posts
From a mfr process standpoint it's much faster/cheaper to stamp them. Less precision required, less machining required, fewer parts to source. I can't see any reason using screws and a threaded pedal body would be better from a mfr standpoint.

In terms of serviceability, these were lower-end, lower-priced pedals that weren't designed to be serviceable aside from bearing overhaul and spindle replacement. They were $10 retail-ish items in the '70s-'80s. The pedals with replaceable cages were $50 retail back then.

And fwiw, Campy NR/SR pedals had stamped cages throughout their production run. If you bashed/smashed your Campy pedals bad enough to damage the cage enough to make them unridable, you replaced them. If the cages just looked bent and ugly but you could still ride them, you rode them. Or replaced them.

Also fwiw, at Suntour we had lots of complaints from dealers that consumers were trashing their Spb Pro pedals trying to replace the cages. Lots of stripped screws and unhappy buyers.

Originally Posted by niswanger View Post
Darn, would be interesting to know why this method? To me, both from a manufacturing process and service ability screws would have been better. Yes I can get them fairly clean, but I need to have the cage removed to get a proper surface prep on the body and cage to have the best anodize result (which will be black dyed cages, turns out sort of smokey colored and zero dye/clear on the body). Yes I can certainly do the machine work to make this happen, it's not just a matter if I want to run down that path? Thank you for responding.
__________________
Fuggedaboutit!
pcb is offline  
Old 02-25-21, 02:14 PM
  #9  
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 15,486
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1746 Post(s)
Liked 620 Times in 482 Posts
Serviceability was conceived of repacking the bearings.
repechage is offline  
Old 02-26-21, 02:01 AM
  #10  
merziac
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 7,467

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 156 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2236 Post(s)
Liked 1,369 Times in 932 Posts
Originally Posted by niswanger View Post
Darn, would be interesting to know why this method? To me, both from a manufacturing process and service ability screws would have been better. Yes I can get them fairly clean, but I need to have the cage removed to get a proper surface prep on the body and cage to have the best anodize result (which will be black dyed cages, turns out sort of smokey colored and zero dye/clear on the body). Yes I can certainly do the machine work to make this happen, it's not just a matter if I want to run down that path? Thank you for responding.
You may want to try to reach out to Jim Merz, he recently had new cages made for some Campy BMX pedals and had to anodize, bend and rivet them back on.

While I have no reason to doubt your skill, I do know that this sort of thing is not successfully accomplished by mere mortals, they were built that way to be bullitproof.

Jim is one of the few people that can get this done with the same results as the factory, he may be willing to advise.

He has a FB page and the pedals he did are back in Feb. 2020, good luck.
merziac is online now  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.