Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Classic & Vintage e-bike conversions

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Classic & Vintage e-bike conversions

Old 02-25-21, 03:32 PM
  #1  
casanewt
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
casanewt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 347

Bikes: Wow, where to start? A collection of 1980's and early 90's road, touring, and MTBs from the likes of Trek, Schwinn, Cannondale, Fuji, Miyata, Univega, Panasonic, and GT. It has gotten rather out of control.

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 124 Post(s)
Liked 128 Times in 63 Posts
Classic & Vintage e-bike conversions

Alright fellow C&V fans, who out there has gone to the dark side and done an e-bike conversion on an older bike and how would you rate the results? I am getting ready to install a Bafang BBS02B mid-drive unit on to my unappreciated 1988 Shogun Alpine GT. It just does not get ridden as much as my Treks, Fuji, and Miyata touring bikes and seemed like the right one to experiment a bit with.



casanewt is offline  
Old 02-25-21, 04:45 PM
  #2  
Classtime 
Senior Member
 
Classtime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,845

Bikes: 81 Medici, 2011 Richard Sachs, 2011 Milwaukee Road

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1077 Post(s)
Liked 483 Times in 326 Posts
https://www.bikeforums.net/electric-bikes/
__________________
I don't do: disks, tubeless, e-shifting, or bead head nymphs.
Classtime is offline  
Old 02-25-21, 04:48 PM
  #3  
veganbikes
Clark W. Griswold
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ,location, location
Posts: 8,824

Bikes: Foundry Chilkoot Ti W/Ultegra Di2, Salsa Timberjack Ti, Cinelli Mash Work RandoCross Fun Time Machine, 1x9 XT Parts Hybrid, Co-Motion Cascadia, Specialized Langster, Phil Wood Apple VeloXS Frame (w/DA 7400), Cilo Road Frame, Proteus frame, Ti 26 MTB

Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2459 Post(s)
Liked 1,488 Times in 994 Posts
There are plenty of quality e-bikes on the market I wouldn't covert an old bike that isn't designed for the loads of an e-bike.
veganbikes is offline  
Old 02-25-21, 08:13 PM
  #4  
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 26,620

Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 74 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1569 Post(s)
Liked 1,823 Times in 1,051 Posts
Mid-drive? Should be interesting. Sticking with the derailer system, single ratio, or IGH to complement it?

Also, I'm not one to cry "e-bike stresses!" without knowing the specs of the motor. Sure, if the dropouts look like they've been brazed cold, I'd avoid such a conversion - but otherwise, I'd expect unwanted cold setting long before catastrophic failure.

I would consider a Surly tensioner on each side of the dropouts to keep the rear wheel from shifting under the torque though. They make a few versions that are adaptable to horizontal drops.

-Kurt
__________________







cudak888 is offline  
Likes For cudak888:
Old 02-25-21, 09:09 PM
  #5  
casanewt
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
casanewt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 347

Bikes: Wow, where to start? A collection of 1980's and early 90's road, touring, and MTBs from the likes of Trek, Schwinn, Cannondale, Fuji, Miyata, Univega, Panasonic, and GT. It has gotten rather out of control.

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 124 Post(s)
Liked 128 Times in 63 Posts
Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
Mid-drive? Should be interesting. Sticking with the derailer system, single ratio, or IGH to complement it?

Also, I'm not one to cry "e-bike stresses!" without knowing the specs of the motor. Sure, if the dropouts look like they've been brazed cold, I'd avoid such a conversion - but otherwise, I'd expect unwanted cold setting long before catastrophic failure.

I would consider a Surly tensioner on each side of the dropouts to keep the rear wheel from shifting under the torque though. They make a few versions that are adaptable to horizontal drops.

-Kurt

Sticking with the derailleur drivetrain. Plan to be very mindful of using the motor smoothly and setting it up and riding it to put more normal stress levels on the bike. This is definitely an experiment to see how this works out. It is a 750W/48V drive.
casanewt is offline  
Old 02-25-21, 09:19 PM
  #6  
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 26,620

Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 74 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1569 Post(s)
Liked 1,823 Times in 1,051 Posts
Originally Posted by casanewt View Post
Sticking with the derailleur drivetrain. Plan to be very mindful of using the motor smoothly and setting it up and riding it to put more normal stress levels on the bike. This is definitely an experiment to see how this works out. It is a 750W/48V drive.
There are enough BBS02B's installed on completely stock Shimano cassettes not designed for e-bikes out there. At most, you might wear out the small ring prematurely or wind up with chain skate, and if there's any damage, it'll probably bend the frame around the bottom bracket - that Bafang motor is basically acting on the frame and the drivetrain as would an immensely strong rider.

Convert that rear axle to nutted and install those Surly axle tensioners.

-Kurt
__________________







cudak888 is offline  
Likes For cudak888:
Old 02-26-21, 07:54 AM
  #7  
casanewt
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
casanewt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 347

Bikes: Wow, where to start? A collection of 1980's and early 90's road, touring, and MTBs from the likes of Trek, Schwinn, Cannondale, Fuji, Miyata, Univega, Panasonic, and GT. It has gotten rather out of control.

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 124 Post(s)
Liked 128 Times in 63 Posts
Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
There are enough BBS02B's installed on completely stock Shimano cassettes not designed for e-bikes out there. At most, you might wear out the small ring prematurely or wind up with chain skate, and if there's any damage, it'll probably bend the frame around the bottom bracket - that Bafang motor is basically acting on the frame and the drivetrain as would an immensely strong rider.

Convert that rear axle to nutted and install those Surly axle tensioners.

-Kurt
Great info Kurt. Thanks.
casanewt is offline  
Old 02-27-21, 07:01 PM
  #8  
casanewt
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
casanewt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 347

Bikes: Wow, where to start? A collection of 1980's and early 90's road, touring, and MTBs from the likes of Trek, Schwinn, Cannondale, Fuji, Miyata, Univega, Panasonic, and GT. It has gotten rather out of control.

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 124 Post(s)
Liked 128 Times in 63 Posts
Changed my mind and decided to convert a different bike. I knew my old motorcycle buddy Michal was a serious mountain biker, but I did not know until a few years ago that he was also a big e-bike builder. Mike had a used Bafang BBS02B 750W he was selling and I jumped on it. He came over today and we built up this 1985 Panasonic ATB. I absolutely love the conversion. I wanted an urban assault bike that could also do gravel rides. I think I will throw some more gravel appropriate tires on it soon, but for now it rules the tarmac.




casanewt is offline  
Old 02-27-21, 09:00 PM
  #9  
Wildwood
Veteran, Pacifist
 
Wildwood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Seattle area
Posts: 11,092

Bikes: Bikes??? Thought this was social media?!?

Mentioned: 251 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2823 Post(s)
Liked 1,842 Times in 1,033 Posts
That was quick.
Looks like a better platform.


Love a follow-up report after a hundred miles or more of familiarity. 750watts is pretty big, right?
Wildwood is offline  
Old 02-27-21, 09:06 PM
  #10  
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 26,620

Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 74 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1569 Post(s)
Liked 1,823 Times in 1,051 Posts
Originally Posted by casanewt View Post
Changed my mind and decided to convert a different bike. I knew my old motorcycle buddy Michal was a serious mountain biker, but I did not know until a few years ago that he was also a big e-bike builder. Mike had a used Bafang BBS02B 750W he was selling and I jumped on it. He came over today and we built up this 1985 Panasonic ATB. I absolutely love the conversion. I wanted an urban assault bike that could also do gravel rides. I think I will throw some more gravel appropriate tires on it soon, but for now it rules the tarmac.
Not only does that look clean, but it looks good too.

Any plans for a tensioner or chainrings on the front chainring to prevent the chain from dropping? Perhaps one of those clutched modern RDs? I know that front Bafang ring weighs almost as much as a boat anchor and has pretty beefy teeth, but I tend to fear 1x systems that don't have something to keep that chain from popping off.

-Kurt
__________________







cudak888 is offline  
Likes For cudak888:
Old 02-27-21, 09:07 PM
  #11  
casanewt
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
casanewt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 347

Bikes: Wow, where to start? A collection of 1980's and early 90's road, touring, and MTBs from the likes of Trek, Schwinn, Cannondale, Fuji, Miyata, Univega, Panasonic, and GT. It has gotten rather out of control.

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 124 Post(s)
Liked 128 Times in 63 Posts
Originally Posted by Wildwood View Post
That was quick.
Looks like a better platform.


Love a follow-up report after a hundred miles or more of familiarity. 750watts is pretty big, right?
This is the better platform for what I wanted to do. If you look at the Bafang mid-drive kits, you will see how simple the install is. Remove the crank and the bottom bracket. Drive unit fits right through the bottom bracket. Mount the battery to the water bottle mounts & run the controls. Simple and completely reversible. The torque is fantastic from the 750W version. range should be around 30 miles using the lower assist modes, which are still plenty powerful. Not sure what my top speed is yet, but it depends on your gearing. It could probably hit close to 30 miles an hour, but real world, zipping around at 15-20MPH is plenty fast. The battery I have is the 48V 13.5 Ah.
casanewt is offline  
Old 02-27-21, 09:10 PM
  #12  
Soody
Senior Member
 
Soody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 586

Bikes: Gunnar crosshairs, F Moser Forma, Pete Tansley Sport Tourer, Rocky Mountain Summit, Cinelli mtb, Diamant, Marin Eldridge Grade

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 93 Post(s)
Liked 86 Times in 49 Posts
thats awesome
Soody is offline  
Likes For Soody:
Old 02-27-21, 09:24 PM
  #13  
casanewt
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
casanewt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 347

Bikes: Wow, where to start? A collection of 1980's and early 90's road, touring, and MTBs from the likes of Trek, Schwinn, Cannondale, Fuji, Miyata, Univega, Panasonic, and GT. It has gotten rather out of control.

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 124 Post(s)
Liked 128 Times in 63 Posts
Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
Not only does that look clean, but it looks good too.

Any plans for a tensioner or chainrings on the front chainring to prevent the chain from dropping? Perhaps one of those clutched modern RDs? I know that front Bafang ring weighs almost as much as a boat anchor and has pretty beefy teeth, but I tend to fear 1x systems that don't have something to keep that chain from popping off.

-Kurt
Yep, a simple tensioner or chain guide is going to be needed because the older rear derailleur has a tired main spring. Honestly, the 10 mile shakedown ride was glorious, but I did have to hop one major curb and the chain hopped off the front chain ring on the landing. No real issue because I knew it was coming, was not pedaling, and had my weight off the crank as I was hopping it.
casanewt is offline  
Old 02-27-21, 09:31 PM
  #14  
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 26,620

Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 74 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1569 Post(s)
Liked 1,823 Times in 1,051 Posts
Originally Posted by casanewt View Post
Yep, a simple tensioner or chain guide is going to be needed because the older rear derailleur has a tired main spring. Honestly, the 10 mile shakedown ride was glorious, but I did have to hop one major curb and the chain hopped off the front chain ring on the landing. No real issue because I knew it was coming, was not pedaling, and had my weight off the crank as I was hopping it.
It just dawned on me that the Bafang's design prevents the installation of a tensioner to the drive side of the BB.

This thread is interesting - might be just what the doctor ordered: What is a clutch on a rear derailleur?

-Kurt
__________________







cudak888 is offline  
Old 02-27-21, 11:46 PM
  #15  
casanewt
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
casanewt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 347

Bikes: Wow, where to start? A collection of 1980's and early 90's road, touring, and MTBs from the likes of Trek, Schwinn, Cannondale, Fuji, Miyata, Univega, Panasonic, and GT. It has gotten rather out of control.

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 124 Post(s)
Liked 128 Times in 63 Posts
Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
It just dawned on me that the Bafang's design prevents the installation of a tensioner to the drive side of the BB.

This thread is interesting - might be just what the doctor ordered: What is a clutch on a rear derailleur?

-Kurt
Lots of potential options:

https://www.amazon.com/Origin8-Torql...08ZTLV9W&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/B-Labs-C-Guid...89026616&psc=1

https://www.ebay.com/itm/27383340289...kaAmixEALw_wcB
casanewt is offline  
Old 02-28-21, 08:59 AM
  #16  
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 26,620

Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 74 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1569 Post(s)
Liked 1,823 Times in 1,051 Posts
Not a fan of things that have to be zip-tied to the chainstay. Partial to the first one, as I believe there's less chance of the chain jumping off the entire ring if the top - where the takeup happens - is protected first.

It's also the only one that doesn't look like a kludge.

-Kurt
__________________







cudak888 is offline  
Old 02-28-21, 09:30 AM
  #17  
casanewt
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
casanewt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 347

Bikes: Wow, where to start? A collection of 1980's and early 90's road, touring, and MTBs from the likes of Trek, Schwinn, Cannondale, Fuji, Miyata, Univega, Panasonic, and GT. It has gotten rather out of control.

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 124 Post(s)
Liked 128 Times in 63 Posts
Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
Not a fan of things that have to be zip-tied to the chainstay. Partial to the first one, as I believe there's less chance of the chain jumping off the entire ring if the top - where the takeup happens - is protected first.

It's also the only one that doesn't look like a kludge.

-Kurt
I ordered a couple of different options to try out. Some recommend leaving the front derailleur on to act as a chain guide. I took it off during the install mainly because I did not want something on there that could accidentally drop the chain if the shifter was bumped and I wanted the display by my left thumb for operation.
casanewt is offline  
Old 02-28-21, 09:33 AM
  #18  
Bianchigirll 
Bianchi Goddess
 
Bianchigirll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Shady Pines Retirement Fort Wayne, In
Posts: 27,494

Bikes: Too many to list here check my signature.

Mentioned: 146 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1997 Post(s)
Liked 834 Times in 510 Posts
__________________
Bianchis '90 Proto, '90 Campione del Fausto Giamondi Specialisma Italiano Mundo, '91 Boarala 'cross, '93 Project 3, '86 Volpe, '97 Ti Megatube, '93 Reparto Corse SBX

Others but still loved; '80 Batavus Professional, '87 Cornelo, '?? Jane Doe (still on the drawing board), '90ish Haro Escape SLX Bertoni "Speckled Trout"
Bianchigirll is offline  
Old 02-28-21, 10:43 AM
  #19  
jeirvine 
Senior Member
 
jeirvine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Bethesda/Baltimore MD
Posts: 3,726

Bikes: '72 Moto Grand Record, '72 Gitane tandem, '72 Raleigh Super Course, '73 Raleigh Gran Sport, '73 and '76 Colnagos Super, '76 Fiorelli Coppi, '78 Raleigh SBDU Team Pro, '78 Trek 930, '81 Holdsworth Special 650B, '86 Masi GC, '87 Panasonic DX5000

Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 670 Post(s)
Liked 277 Times in 163 Posts
Originally Posted by casanewt View Post
...Drive unit fits right through the bottom bracket.
How does it attach? Does the BB threading matter? Could you pop one into a Swiss-threaded frame?
__________________
The man who dies with the most toys…is dead. - Rootboy
jeirvine is offline  
Old 02-28-21, 11:19 AM
  #20  
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 26,620

Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 74 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1569 Post(s)
Liked 1,823 Times in 1,051 Posts
Originally Posted by jeirvine View Post
How does it attach? Does the BB threading matter? Could you pop one into a Swiss-threaded frame?
Don't quote me on this, but I believe it's not threaded on the drive side - just slides in - and the opposite side is English.

An adapter might do the job though...

-Kurt
__________________







cudak888 is offline  
Old 02-28-21, 11:27 AM
  #21  
browngw 
Senior Member
 
browngw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Port Dover Ontario Canada
Posts: 1,422

Bikes: 1965 Dilecta Le Blanc, 1956 Royal Nord, 1971 Robin Hood Sports, 1972 CCM Turismo,1976 SuperCycle Excalibur, 1979 Raleigh DL1, 1984 Rossi, 2014 Salsa Vaya, 2017 Felt DD70, 2012 Giant Halfway Folder, 2019 Giant Lafree and others

Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 304 Post(s)
Liked 232 Times in 122 Posts
This type of conversion has been on my mind lately. Just over a year ago, my wife and I bought a 2019 Giant Lafree ebike and have enjoyed them immensely. She has had some health problems but still continues to ride with the ebike. One of the great things about the Giant/Yamaha mid drive system is the torque (60Nm) and the seamless torque and 5 other sensor controller which other than a smooth transition of power makes it feel like riding a real bike. Now well into our seventies, it is time to start looking at other conversions. I am considering a 1995 Norco and my 2014 Salsa Vaya that I own. The Giant setup is 500W and 36V and provides lots of assistance up to 100km (real world tested!) How these motors are controlled is causing me the biggest issue. How is your Bafang unit controlled?


1995 Norco Katmandu
__________________
We are what we reflect. We are the changes that we bring to this world. Ride often. -Geo.-
browngw is offline  
Old 02-28-21, 11:38 AM
  #22  
Fahrenheit531 
Must. Find. Shade.
 
Fahrenheit531's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 3,866

Bikes: Schwinn Volare ('78); Raleigh Competition GS ('79)

Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 691 Post(s)
Liked 429 Times in 228 Posts
Death first.
__________________
A race bike in any era is a highly personal choice that at its "best" balances the requirements of fit, weight, handling, durability and cost tempered by the willingness to toss it and oneself down the pavement at considerable speed. ~Bandera
Fahrenheit531 is offline  
Old 02-28-21, 12:11 PM
  #23  
casanewt
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
casanewt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 347

Bikes: Wow, where to start? A collection of 1980's and early 90's road, touring, and MTBs from the likes of Trek, Schwinn, Cannondale, Fuji, Miyata, Univega, Panasonic, and GT. It has gotten rather out of control.

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 124 Post(s)
Liked 128 Times in 63 Posts
Originally Posted by browngw View Post
This type of conversion has been on my mind lately. Just over a year ago, my wife and I bought a 2019 Giant Lafree ebike and have enjoyed them immensely. She has had some health problems but still continues to ride with the ebike. One of the great things about the Giant/Yamaha mid drive system is the torque (60Nm) and the seamless torque and 5 other sensor controller which other than a smooth transition of power makes it feel like riding a real bike. Now well into our seventies, it is time to start looking at other conversions. I am considering a 1995 Norco and my 2014 Salsa Vaya that I own. The Giant setup is 500W and 36V and provides lots of assistance up to 100km (real world tested!) How these motors are controlled is causing me the biggest issue. How is your Bafang unit controlled?
These Bafang units are cadence sensing. Bafang has more expensive torque sensing units as well. Torque sensing is what Bosch, Yamaha, and other more expensive units have. Tongsheng is another option with torque sensing that is a bit more value-priced. https://edrivenet.com/tongsheng-tsdz2-vs-bafang-bbs02/
casanewt is offline  
Likes For casanewt:
Old 02-28-21, 12:14 PM
  #24  
casanewt
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
casanewt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 347

Bikes: Wow, where to start? A collection of 1980's and early 90's road, touring, and MTBs from the likes of Trek, Schwinn, Cannondale, Fuji, Miyata, Univega, Panasonic, and GT. It has gotten rather out of control.

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 124 Post(s)
Liked 128 Times in 63 Posts
Originally Posted by jeirvine View Post
How does it attach? Does the BB threading matter? Could you pop one into a Swiss-threaded frame?
BB treading does not matter on the BBSXX series. It does not use them.
casanewt is offline  
Likes For casanewt:
Old 02-28-21, 02:53 PM
  #25  
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 26,620

Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 74 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1569 Post(s)
Liked 1,823 Times in 1,051 Posts
Originally Posted by casanewt View Post
BB treading does not matter on the BBSXX series. It does not use them.
So that left ring doesn't thread into the BB, but threads onto itself and sandwiches the drive system between the shell ends?

-Kurt
__________________







cudak888 is offline  
Likes For cudak888:

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.