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Nice Italvega frame in rough shape or just an old gas pipe?

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Nice Italvega frame in rough shape or just an old gas pipe?

Old 03-04-21, 09:37 PM
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b dub 
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Nice Italvega frame in rough shape or just an old gas pipe?

I have been hanging on to a nice mid 1960s Campagnolo Record group and am casually looking for a frame to hang it on.

Would this be a decent candidate?




https://www.ebay.com/itm/Italvega-Co....m46890.l49292
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Old 03-04-21, 10:04 PM
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Not gas pipe, but I don't think one of Italvega's higher end frames - the triangular Columbus foil decal denoted a "lesser" tubing, I read somewhere.
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Old 03-04-21, 10:12 PM
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triangle sticker means "tre-tubi" 3 main tubes are Columbus (most likely SL) and the remainder something like Falck. It's not a thoroughbred but definitely above "gaspipe" grade. And the workmanship on these Torresini-built frames is generally very good, too.
Sidebar: a lot of these stickers were in French but the tubing was not metric...just an oddity.
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Old 03-05-21, 04:31 AM
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It is entry level for the brand , but still a decent bike. The tre tubi frame is nice and should give a nice ride . The higher end models came with Campagnolo forged drop outs and fork tips, yours look to be stamped . The lug work and the fact that it is Columbus tubing makes this more than a “gas pipe” bike.
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Old 03-05-21, 04:49 AM
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That would be a fun project.
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Old 03-05-21, 04:59 AM
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Any guess of the model and year?
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Old 03-05-21, 07:35 AM
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-----

Gran Turismo ca. 1973

chainset Etablissements Peyrard (NERVAR) model 53-65

gear ensemble Campag Gran Turismo

wheel set Gnutti large flange one-piece alloy shell hubs, QR, 36 spoke
FIAMME yellow label rims

Sheffield model 663 pedals

3TTT Tourist stem/bar set

also produced in metallic brown and in green flambouyant

next model up the range: Nuovo Record

-----

Last edited by juvela; 03-05-21 at 11:40 AM. Reason: addition
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Old 03-05-21, 08:05 AM
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this.
Originally Posted by juvela View Post
-----

Gran Turismo ca. 1973

gear ensemble Campag Gran Turismo

wheel set Gnutti large flange one-piece alloy shell hubs, QR, 36 spoke
FIAMME yellow label rims

Sheffield pedals

3TTT stem/bar set

also produced in metallic brown and in green flambouyant

next model up the range: Nuovo Record

-----
Excellent! Thank you.
I also found this. You learn something every day.

Models[edit]

Models manufactured under the Italvega marque include (in order of increasing quality):
  • Viva Sport
  • Nuovo Sport
  • Nuovo Record
  • Super Record
  • Super Speciale
  • Super Light
The top-end models were built with double-butted Columbus tubing and Campagnolo Record and Nuovo Record components. The low-mid level framesets have the inverted triangle Columbus foil decal, while the better models have the rectangle Columbus foil decal. The lowest models have no Columbus decal.
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Old 03-05-21, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by unworthy1 View Post
triangle sticker means "tre-tubi" 3 main tubes are Columbus (most likely SL) and the remainder something like Falck. It's not a thoroughbred but definitely above "gaspipe" grade. And the workmanship on these Torresini-built frames is generally very good, too.
Sidebar: a lot of these stickers were in French but the tubing was not metric...just an oddity.
These frames with triangular gold Columbus stickers are Columbus SP (seat post is 27.0), not SL, even in smaller sizes. Agree, the Tre-tubi does mean 3 main tubes are butted and yes, likely the fork and stays are Falck. The French Columbus stickers was for the French market, oddly they did end up on a lot of Italvega bikes bound for USA.

Agree workmanship was pretty good, even on lower models.

Originally Posted by b dub View Post
Any guess of the model and year?
This is a 1970-71, maybe early 72 Italvega Gran Turismo model, age mainly be 4 digit serial number AND flat head badge. The Gran Turismo is identified by the Tre-tubing sticker and 3 butted tubes, flat fork crown, stamped fork ends and dropouts without hanger, twin short seat tube chrome bands with chrome stay socks and fork sock. It is equipped with lower level cottered steel cranks, Campagnolo matchbox front derailleur and Valentino rear derailleur, weinmann or universal center pull brakes and usually lower 3TTT or other stem. 2nd or 3rd from bottom. Touring geometry.

the similar Nuovo Record has same tre-Tubing Columbus frame but with better sloping crown fork, Campagnolo rear dropouts but stamped front fork ends. It has same chrome scheme but long tall continuous chrome seat band. Equipped with alloy Stronglight cranks usually, Campagnolo NR derailleur and shifters, used better center pull brakes and stem/bars. A level up. Between touring and racing geometry.

the later twin to the Gran Turismo was the upmarket Gran Rally (see member Kabuki12), tre-tubing frame but with Campagnolo dropouts front and rear, similar but slightly taller twin chrome seat bands and front/rear chrome socks, alloy Cotter-less cranks (Stronglight usually but some with Campagnolo groups), center pull brakes, touring geometry and gearing, eyelets for rack and fender mounts.

Subject bike is decent frame, depends on if fits well and you have parts to complement what is there which is more than a frame only. Also depends on your budget.
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Old 03-05-21, 08:55 AM
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-----

wrt rear mech -

owned a green example as a personal machine

it came fitted with the Gran Turismo rear mech

every other example of this model have had the opportunity to see came with this mech

if Torresini fitted some with Valentino rear mech perhaps it was something which varied by model year...?

-----
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Old 03-05-21, 11:18 AM
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If it stays this low I might go for it. I only need the obvious consumables. I have everything else and it's my size.
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Old 03-05-21, 11:47 AM
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-----

frame bits -

fork crown Agrati nr. 005.8048, part of the "AM" lug ensemble

bottom bracket shell Agrati nr. 000.8507, part of the "AM" lug ensemble

dropouts Agrati nr. 000.8002

fork ends Agrati nr. 000.8010

---

water bottle mount likely achieved with rivnuts since paint is original and undisturbed


-----
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Old 03-05-21, 12:10 PM
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There was a bike made by Trek a couple years ago - I think it was a city/hybrid bike, and the frame was made from some alloy of steel that was not necessarily 4130 or 853 or even 501. It was claimed (on BF iirc) that when Trek representatives were asked, they used 'hi tensile' to describe it. I said to a friend at the time, you can make a crappy bike out of nice materials or a nice bike out of cheap materials. The Trek was obviously a nice bike, even without the 'bling' factor of a known tubing sticker.

Some months later I went to look at an old classical guitar, made in Brasil in 1974. It was obviously a nice instrument with clear sound and easy to play. When I looked closer I realized the top, and likely the back and sides, were made with laminate construction instead of the more prestigious (and expensive, and delicate) solid wood construction. I pointed this out to my friend and he sort of tsk tsked me. "remember what you said about bike frame materials? The same goes for anything - You can make a nice guitar out of cheaper materials, or a crappy guitar out of expensive materials."
This guitar is obviously a nice guitar made out of cheaper materials.

Your frame reminded me of that conversation - maybe a snob might turn up their nose at the 'lesser' model from whatever company, but just because it was affordable doesn't mean it isn't good. The nicely scalloped lugs and chrome stays and fork are obvious hallmarks of a frame that they put together with some care, even if it is less expensive.

Epilogue:
The guitar is now my prized possession. IT stays perfectly in tune unless there is a change in temperature, then tension in the unwound strings seems to follow the temperature swings a little more than the wound strings, but always consistent, and with the most perfect intonation of any guitar I have played. It doesn't sound great, but that's because I can't play worth a damn. I suppose the cheap/expensive vs crap/quality equation works for that too - a decent musician could make nice music with a cheap guitar, but a crappy musician doesn't become a good musician because he has an expensive guitar.
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Old 03-05-21, 01:09 PM
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Stamped dropouts...not a great candidate for that Record group (unlikely a group of this grade would have been fit to at most a mid-grade bike)...I'd keep hunting if your goal is to find an appropriate frame for your Campy components.

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Old 03-05-21, 04:02 PM
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Rear drops on my 1972 Grand Rally
This was quite the project bike. The rust from years of being left outside in a Central California beach town took its toll. I spent a year on this bike and it was worth it. If you like that bike, you should go ahead with it. Make sure there is no terminal damage from a crash or anything. I paid $100 for this one because I figured the early Campagnolo bits were worth that. When I began taking it apart , I kind of fell in love with the fact that it survived! The bearings still had fresh grease and there was no damage to any of the races. Due to the upgrades someone did to the bike I have a suspicion it may have been raced. Zeus competition seat post and Campy just about everywhere. Cranks are Super Record 175 length. See Rusty Resurection on my blog joesvintageroadbikes.wordpress. I might add, there is very little information on the Grand Rally. I think it may have been a transitional model before the Nuevo Record. What I know about this bike I learned from Bartley aka mech986, he has info on the ItalVega brand.

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Old 03-05-21, 05:42 PM
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This old Torpado is very similar to the OP's bike. Nothing special when compared to higher end bikes and most certainly not gas pipe, nor is the tube set exotic. That said, I have restored quite a few such bikes and I find them to be interesting projects and just fine to ride. This late sixties Torpado arrived looking like this...


$250 to $300 CND turned it into this (I do all of the work myself, including the brushed on paint job). I am waiting for tires before adjusting the fender lines...


Put another way, I think such bikes to be worthy projects and would not pass up the opportunity to build another one. This is the last Torpado, a step above the grey and red one above, and a treat to ride...
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Old 03-06-21, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Markeologist View Post
Stamped dropouts...not a great candidate for that Record group (unlikely a group of this grade would have been fit to at most a mid-grade bike)...I'd keep hunting if your goal is to find an appropriate frame for your Campy components.
i have 2 gran tourismo's with stamped dropouts, one running sunXCD RD with a hanger, and one with campy with a hanger. nice riders and nothing wrong with these frames...

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Old 03-06-21, 02:03 PM
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eBay auction ended by seller because "item was lost or broken". Or sold on CL.
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Old 03-06-21, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Charles Wahl View Post
eBay auction ended by seller because "item was lost or broken". Or sold on CL.
Well, that solved that.
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Old 03-07-21, 01:08 AM
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Originally Posted by juvela View Post
-----

wrt rear mech -

owned a green example as a personal machine

it came fitted with the Gran Turismo rear mech

every other example of this model have had the opportunity to see came with this mech

if Torresini fitted some with Valentino rear mech perhaps it was something which varied by model year...?

-----
Agreed, and I may have misquoted the rear derailleur model from Campagnolo, I'm not as knowledgeable about the Velox, Gran Turismo, Valentino models and have not studied them. Time to go to Velobase and review the relevant Campy catalogs. Thanks for the correction. I agree that many of the models like Nuovo or Viva Sport, Gran Turismo, come with the steel non-alloy Campagnolo derailleurs. I think that near the end, they did switch over to Suntour RD?

Originally Posted by juvela View Post
-----
frame bits -
fork crown Agrati nr. 005.8048, part of the "AM" lug ensemble
bottom bracket shell Agrati nr. 000.8507, part of the "AM" lug ensemble
dropouts Agrati nr. 000.8002
fork ends Agrati nr. 000.8010
---
water bottle mount likely achieved with rivnuts since paint is original and undisturbed
-----
juvela, your knowledge of these frame pieces always astonishes me. Can you point me to any resources that would help us to do the same on our own?

Originally Posted by randyjawa View Post
This old Torpado is very similar to the OP's bike. Nothing special when compared to higher end bikes and most certainly not gas pipe, nor is the tube set exotic. That said, I have restored quite a few such bikes and I find them to be interesting projects and just fine to ride. This late sixties Torpado arrived looking like this...


$250 to $300 CND turned it into this (I do all of the work myself, including the brushed on paint job). I am waiting for tires before adjusting the fender lines...


Put another way, I think such bikes to be worthy projects and would not pass up the opportunity to build another one. This is the last Torpado, a step above the grey and red one above, and a treat to ride...
Agree, most Torpados and Italvegas seemed to be designed with good geometry, good quality (or at least consistent) construction techniques and results, and good ride quality and behavior.

Originally Posted by b dub View Post
Well, that solved that.
Sorry the seller pulled it out from under you and all the bidders.
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Old 03-07-21, 08:33 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by cocoabeachcrab View Post
i have 2 gran tourismo's with stamped dropouts, one running sunXCD RD with a hanger, and one with campy with a hanger. nice riders and nothing wrong with these frames...
It is specifically asked if this frame is a good candidate for a vintage Campy Record group. I assume that the goal is to match this group with a frame of similar high end quality. I am making an assumption here but since a frame of similar age is being looked at, that is probably a safe assumption. No matter how many low to midgrade bikes somebody has THIS frame is not a good candidate to pair with THAT group.
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