Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Centurion Cinelli project bike

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Centurion Cinelli project bike

Old 03-17-21, 11:04 AM
  #1  
Rthomason
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
Centurion Cinelli project bike

I'm new to the forum and would like to connect with members that have knowledge or interest in a 1983 Centurion Cinelli Project bike. I just rebuilt mine after not riding it for several years and would like some conversation with others that may have the same bike. It's a little confusing for me because there were many 'project' bikes from Centurion back in the 80's.
Rthomason is offline  
Likes For Rthomason:
Old 03-17-21, 05:44 PM
  #2  
Hobbiano 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Baton Rouge La
Posts: 1,003
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 312 Post(s)
Liked 219 Times in 151 Posts
Welcome to the forum! Once you get ten post you can post pictures and I think you'll get more interest. In the meantime, here's mine. I bought it used sometime in the eighties. It was already repainted when I bought it.






Last edited by Hobbiano; 03-17-21 at 05:56 PM.
Hobbiano is offline  
Likes For Hobbiano:
Old 03-17-21, 08:44 PM
  #3  
Campagnerdo 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 208
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 22 Times in 14 Posts
Oh, she's elegant, Hobbiano. My favorite "version" of this frame, with the Supercorsa style fork. Here's mine, excuse the poor lighting.

Campagnerdo is offline  
Likes For Campagnerdo:
Old 03-17-21, 09:41 PM
  #4  
Hobbiano 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Baton Rouge La
Posts: 1,003
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 312 Post(s)
Liked 219 Times in 151 Posts
Here's a few more details. Also an add (from forum member jonsan's post in an earlier thread)




Last edited by Hobbiano; 03-18-21 at 07:39 PM. Reason: Source of add.
Hobbiano is offline  
Likes For Hobbiano:
Old 03-17-21, 11:47 PM
  #5  
bikingshearer 
Crawlin' up, flyin' down
 
bikingshearer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Democratic Peoples' Republic of Berkeley
Posts: 4,555

Bikes: 1967 Paramount; 1982-ish Ron Cooper; 1978 Eisentraut "A"; two mid-1960s Cinelli Speciale Corsas; and others in various stages of non-rideability.

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 498 Post(s)
Liked 713 Times in 365 Posts
I've always liked the whole East-meets-West vibe of the Centurionellis. Nice looking frames. How do they ride?
__________________
"I'm in shape -- round is a shape." Andy Rooney
bikingshearer is offline  
Old 03-18-21, 02:08 PM
  #6  
Rthomason
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
I took this out for a quick 11 miler last week and it was horrible! It seems unbelievable that I took this bike on countless 70 - 100 rides (although I was 35 years younger). I realize that it's all subjective but I've gotten spoiled by the comfort of carbon frames, an endurance riding position, and brake hood shifting. It also seems super-small and touchy like a criterium bike. I'm going to clean it up and sell it. It is cool looking, though ....
Rthomason is offline  
Old 03-18-21, 02:19 PM
  #7  
Eric F
Habitual User
 
Eric F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Altadena, CA
Posts: 2,412

Bikes: 2018 Storck Fascenario.3 Platinum, 2003 Time VX Special Pro, 2001 Colnago VIP, 1999 Trek 9900 singlespeed, 1977 Nishiki ONP

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1409 Post(s)
Liked 2,207 Times in 1,083 Posts
Maybe try making some adjustments to make it fit more like the bikes you're comfortable riding and see if it changes your opinion. I had a similar experience in a recent rehab of a Nishiki. The first couple of rides were okay, but not "right". When I put a longer stem and wider bars on it (to match the fit of my other road bikes), it got a lot better.
Eric F is offline  
Old 03-18-21, 04:39 PM
  #8  
Hobbiano 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Baton Rouge La
Posts: 1,003
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 312 Post(s)
Liked 219 Times in 151 Posts
Originally Posted by Rthomason View Post
I took this out for a quick 11 miler last week and it was horrible! It seems unbelievable that I took this bike on countless 70 - 100 rides (although I was 35 years younger). I realize that it's all subjective but I've gotten spoiled by the comfort of carbon frames, an endurance riding position, and brake hood shifting. It also seems super-small and touchy like a criterium bike. I'm going to clean it up and sell it. It is cool looking, though ....
Maybe you should have said you thought it was terrible in your first post.
Hobbiano is offline  
Old 03-18-21, 06:00 PM
  #9  
Fahrenheit531 
No Chain Lube Preference
 
Fahrenheit531's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 3,897

Bikes: Schwinn Volare ('78); Raleigh Competition GS ('79)

Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 699 Post(s)
Liked 455 Times in 245 Posts
Well that train wrecked in a hurry. But wait!
Originally Posted by Hobbiano View Post





What of this Centurion-Cinelli collaboration? I had no idea until right now that such a thing even existed and that's a really freaking cool bike. Gorgeous.
Fahrenheit531 is online now  
Likes For Fahrenheit531:
Old 03-18-21, 06:07 PM
  #10  
smontanaro 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Evanston, IL
Posts: 4,870

Bikes: many

Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1030 Post(s)
Liked 628 Times in 367 Posts
I think Robbie Tunes (bumped from BF some while ago) was the expert on the Centurion Cinelli collaboration.
smontanaro is offline  
Old 03-18-21, 06:35 PM
  #11  
texaspandj
Senior Member
 
texaspandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Heart Of Texas
Posts: 4,188

Bikes: '85, '86 , '87 , '88 , '89 Centurion Dave Scott Ironman.

Mentioned: 99 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1583 Post(s)
Liked 517 Times in 345 Posts
Originally Posted by Rthomason View Post
I took this out for a quick 11 miler last week and it was horrible! It seems unbelievable that I took this bike on countless 70 - 100 rides (although I was 35 years younger). I realize that it's all subjective but I've gotten spoiled by the comfort of carbon frames, an endurance riding position, and brake hood shifting. It also seems super-small and touchy like a criterium bike. I'm going to clean it up and sell it. It is cool looking, though ....
Hmmm, I might be interested in the frame alone.
Pm me.
texaspandj is offline  
Old 03-18-21, 06:41 PM
  #12  
satbuilder 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Southern Maryland
Posts: 1,388

Bikes: A few

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 239 Post(s)
Liked 93 Times in 51 Posts
Skip, I think Robbie’s still here. Saw him post earlier today. Edit: it was an old post, so you may be right

Kurt

Last edited by satbuilder; 03-18-21 at 09:12 PM.
satbuilder is offline  
Old 03-18-21, 06:57 PM
  #13  
Hobbiano 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Baton Rouge La
Posts: 1,003
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 312 Post(s)
Liked 219 Times in 151 Posts
Originally Posted by Fahrenheit531 View Post
Well that train wrecked in a hurry. But wait!
What of this Centurion-Cinelli collaboration? I had no idea until right now that such a thing even existed and that's a really freaking cool bike. Gorgeous.
Thanks. There was also a Centurion Equipe that I think followed the Cinelli Project. Read about it here: https://www.classicrendezvous.com/ima...ion_Equipe.pdf
The project bikes were a little different and there may have been different versions of each. RT did know as much as anybody about these and I remember him replying to a thread with a good explanation of these. I see if I can find it.
Hobbiano is offline  
Old 03-18-21, 07:08 PM
  #14  
Hobbiano 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Baton Rouge La
Posts: 1,003
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 312 Post(s)
Liked 219 Times in 151 Posts
Here's what Robbie had to say about it:

"It was a well done bike, sold by Bikecology out of their catalog. Alan Goldsmith, who consulted for Western States Imports (Centurion), very likely contracted for these. He either owned or was a principal at Bikecology.

The bike was very likely made by Chirico, a shop in Bussero (outskirts of Milan) that had a long partnership with Cinelli, and made some Cinelli frames for them. Chirico's son was an "apprentice" frame builder at Cinelli from 1972 until 1984, when he returned to his father's shop in Chirico. He and his father then patented a fork-making process (both internal and external lugs) and they churned out a lot of high-end forks for multiple brands in Europe. One of the rarer dropouts or fork ends is one stamped "CHIRICO." They made some custom frames, some North American-intended Cinelli's, and likely some racing frames (notably the Super Corsa's with eyelets used on European brevets).

Alan Goldsmith went to visit Cino Cinelli, precisely to contract for a production run of the Equipes, and the main negotiation was the size and placement of the Cinelli logo. This was a concern of Cinelli throughout the production of frames for others (Lotus, Centurion, etc) outside the umbrella of "normal" production Cinellis.

Goldsmith met with the elder Cinelli, then Andreas, and the deal was done for a shipping container full of the Equipe. Chirico was contracted for those frames, and then the rest of the time was spent at Cino's olive orchards.

Goldsmith returned to consult on the "modern" Ironman models, started Park Pre bikes with his wife, and then went on to other small companies like Specialized....

He never figured out the fuss over the Ironman models, but I'm sure he didn't dwell on it. He was/is an important figure in the industry, and also a full-time lawyer.

I'll never really know if the Project came before the Equipe, or at the same time through different distribution, or after. The pantographs are oriented differently, and of course, less chrome. The frames are pretty nice. A ton of them ended up under racers, likely purchased out of the Bikecology catalog and built up. They're as Italian as any bike made in Italy, and pedigreed as well. Cinelli and Chirico go way back."

Or here's a link to that thread with more pictures of my bike: Early Centurion Cinelli Equipe?

And here a link to maybe everything known about these bikes: Robbie has some very interesting theories about the the Cinelli Centurion

Last edited by Hobbiano; 03-18-21 at 07:23 PM.
Hobbiano is offline  
Likes For Hobbiano:
Old 03-18-21, 07:26 PM
  #15  
Fahrenheit531 
No Chain Lube Preference
 
Fahrenheit531's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 3,897

Bikes: Schwinn Volare ('78); Raleigh Competition GS ('79)

Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 699 Post(s)
Liked 455 Times in 245 Posts
Well how cool is that.

__________________
A race bike in any era is a highly personal choice that at its "best" balances the requirements of fit, weight, handling, durability and cost tempered by the willingness to toss it and oneself down the pavement at considerable speed. ~Bandera
Fahrenheit531 is online now  
Old 03-20-21, 04:13 PM
  #16  
Rthomason
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
In the post I did comment that it was "all subjective". Not really sure why the correction.
Rthomason is offline  
Old 03-20-21, 04:19 PM
  #17  
Rthomason
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
Eric - Thanks for your thoughts. I really don't think I can get this to a bike that I would really enjoy riding. There are just too many technological advancements that have happened in bicycling over the decades. I realize that many would like the feel of an older bike, not to mention the cool look. It's just not for me. Thanks again.
Rthomason is offline  
Old 03-21-21, 06:22 AM
  #18  
T-Mar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 22,552
Mentioned: 600 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4414 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2,400 Times in 1,558 Posts
Originally Posted by Fahrenheit531 View Post
Well that train wrecked in a hurry. But wait!
What of this Centurion-Cinelli collaboration? I had no idea until right now that such a thing even existed and that's a really freaking cool bike. Gorgeous.
Collaborations between American marketing companies and Italian companies were a mini-trend in the mid-1980s. When they couldn't crack the high end market to the desired extent with Japanese made models, Centurion, Lotus and Nishiki all introduced high end models manufactured in Italy using Columbus tubesets and Campagnolo parts. They all disappeared within a few years, shortly after Shimano introducing SIS in new Dura-Ace. Like Centurion, Lotus used the high recognition Cinelli connection, while possible Nishiki sources have been suggested as Colnago, Olmo and Viner
T-Mar is offline  
Old 03-21-21, 08:12 AM
  #19  
Fahrenheit531 
No Chain Lube Preference
 
Fahrenheit531's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 3,897

Bikes: Schwinn Volare ('78); Raleigh Competition GS ('79)

Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 699 Post(s)
Liked 455 Times in 245 Posts
Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
Collaborations between American marketing companies and Italian companies were a mini-trend in the mid-1980s. When they couldn't crack the high end market to the desired extent with Japanese made models, Centurion, Lotus and Nishiki all introduced high end models manufactured in Italy using Columbus tubesets and Campagnolo parts. They all disappeared within a few years, shortly after Shimano introducing SIS in new Dura-Ace. Like Centurion, Lotus used the high recognition Cinelli connection, while possible Nishiki sources have been suggested as Colnago, Olmo and Viner
Thanks for the big-picture view, T-Mar. Gonna have to keep these on my radar, although I suspect they're an uncommon find....
__________________
A race bike in any era is a highly personal choice that at its "best" balances the requirements of fit, weight, handling, durability and cost tempered by the willingness to toss it and oneself down the pavement at considerable speed. ~Bandera
Fahrenheit531 is online now  
Old 03-21-21, 02:30 PM
  #20  
smontanaro 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Evanston, IL
Posts: 4,870

Bikes: many

Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1030 Post(s)
Liked 628 Times in 367 Posts
Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
Collaborations between American marketing companies and Italian companies were a mini-trend in the mid-1980s. When they couldn't crack the high end market to the desired extent with Japanese made models, Centurion, Lotus and Nishiki all introduced high end models manufactured in Italy using Columbus tubesets and Campagnolo parts. They all disappeared within a few years, shortly after Shimano introducing SIS in new Dura-Ace. Like Centurion, Lotus used the high recognition Cinelli connection, while possible Nishiki sources have been suggested as Colnago, Olmo and Viner
I suspect the fundamental distinction between normal contracting relationships and the Centurion/Lotus/Nishiki collaborations with Italian makers was that the Italians on the other side those relationships were already big names in the US. Ben Lawee's Italvega, as a complementary example, also connected an American marketing company with a well-established Italian manufacturer (Torpado in this case) which though very big wasn't as well known this side of the pond.
__________________
Contact me to help Doug Fattic's colleagues in Ukraine

smontanaro is offline  
Old 03-21-21, 05:31 PM
  #21  
T-Mar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 22,552
Mentioned: 600 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4414 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2,400 Times in 1,558 Posts
Originally Posted by smontanaro View Post
I suspect the fundamental distinction between normal contracting relationships and the Centurion/Lotus/Nishiki collaborations with Italian makers was that the Italians on the other side those relationships were already big names in the US. Ben Lawee's Italvega, as a complementary example, also connected an American marketing company with a well-established Italian manufacturer (Torpado in this case) which though very big wasn't as well known this side of the pond.
The Italvega manufacturer, Torresini, was big on volume, not prestige. During the decade following the bicycle boom, the high end market switched from primarily models from full-range manufacturers to models from smaller, more exclusive (and primarily Italian) manufacturers. The USA companies behind Centurion, Lotus and Nishiki were simply following the market trend, after models from their Japanese sources failed to make a substantial impression on the high end market. In the case of Nishiki, they didn't advertise the identity of their Italian sources. Lawee tried to cover the same bases, with a new Italian sourced brand, Bertoni, again without fanfare for the source. A big name like Cinelli might have been nice but it wasn't a prerequisite.
T-Mar is offline  
Old 03-22-21, 07:05 AM
  #22  
Rthomason
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
A re-do of an earlier post

Originally Posted by Hobbiano View Post
Maybe you should have said you thought it was terrible in your first post.
Hobbiano - I agree, it did sound a little harsh. Let me try again. I think it's a cool bike in many ways but for me, it's just too uncomfortable. At 71 years old, I appreciate the comfort of modern technology and frame design. Thanks for posting you beautiful Centurion Cinelli. It's absolutely gorgeous!
Rthomason is offline  
Old 03-22-21, 07:20 AM
  #23  
Rthomason
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
texaspandj - Thanks for your interest but I'd like to at least try to sell the entire bike rather than part it out. I just had the bike refurbished and it's mechanically solid with a complete component clean up (Campy NR), new Campy Chorus brakes/wheels/tires/cables/seat. The frame shows much wear and tear from years of riding and I still have to do clean up and rust removal. Thanks again.
Rthomason is offline  
Old 03-22-21, 11:28 AM
  #24  
texaspandj
Senior Member
 
texaspandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Heart Of Texas
Posts: 4,188

Bikes: '85, '86 , '87 , '88 , '89 Centurion Dave Scott Ironman.

Mentioned: 99 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1583 Post(s)
Liked 517 Times in 345 Posts
Originally Posted by Rthomason View Post
texaspandj - Thanks for your interest but I'd like to at least try to sell the entire bike rather than part it out. I just had the bike refurbished and it's mechanically solid with a complete component clean up (Campy NR), new Campy Chorus brakes/wheels/tires/cables/seat. The frame shows much wear and tear from years of riding and I still have to do clean up and rust removal. Thanks again.
Gotcha .
I like me some Italian bikes...not so much their components.
texaspandj is offline  
Old 03-22-21, 06:07 PM
  #25  
Hobbiano 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Baton Rouge La
Posts: 1,003
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 312 Post(s)
Liked 219 Times in 151 Posts
Originally Posted by Rthomason View Post
Hobbiano - I agree, it did sound a little harsh. Let me try again. I think it's a cool bike in many ways but for me, it's just too uncomfortable. At 71 years old, I appreciate the comfort of modern technology and frame design. Thanks for posting you beautiful Centurion Cinelli. It's absolutely gorgeous!
A nice steel frame bike can be very comfortable when set up so it's right for you. Nice supple tires make a difference, as well as just about everything else. It's a process of trial & error getting everything right.
Hobbiano is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.