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-   -   Forgive me fellow C&Vers, but I have sinned (https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/1226429-forgive-me-fellow-c-vers-but-i-have-sinned.html)

Classtime 03-24-21 06:22 AM

Anything Ritchie is worthy but the brifters should be replaced with Dura Ace bar ends. I'm looking forward to the "New fork for the Breakaway" thread.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f8b7e35452.jpg
Milwaukee Road in need of a fork.

gugie 03-24-21 10:37 AM


Originally Posted by RiddleOfSteel (Post 21982089)
I think anything is better than the fork that's on it now. Thank goodness the bike is in your hands now! You can both rectify it aesthetically and functionally. The fork's color could even match. The possibilities!

Glossy black is easy to match. Oddly, it's the only glossy black part on the bike, perhaps this wasn't the original fork?


Originally Posted by northbend (Post 21982106)
What a great looking fork crown! You should totally build a new fork for your Ritchey.

As for your sin, now.
No worries..
I think with all the good works that you're done for us C&V'rs you must certainly have been awarded an Indulgence.

I'm not sure about that, I've already been banished by an abbot. @Andy_K can explain.

squirtdad 03-24-21 11:07 AM

I think as atonement for your sins, you need to create a custom stem that looks more C&V. :) but it would be far worse if it had a carbon fork. Ride it like a fast zombie is chasing you and enjoy

RiddleOfSteel 03-24-21 11:22 AM


Originally Posted by gugie (Post 21982669)
Glossy black is easy to match. Oddly, it's the only glossy black part on the bike, perhaps this wasn't the original fork?

I was implying that the new fork you make could match the frame's color, not the black of the current fork. As to the fork's originality, I've seen plenty of unicrown forks mated to frames in a non-form-matching way (diameter of the fork blades is much less than the headtube, and has a welded pedestal to create the base for the crown race and "match" the headtube diameter), even on modern bikes. So who knows.

merziac 03-24-21 11:23 AM


Originally Posted by squirtdad (Post 21982726)
I think as atonement for your sins, you need to create a custom stem that looks more C&V. :) but it would be far worse if it had a carbon fork. Ride it like a fast zombie is chasing you and enjoy

I second the custom stem motion, quill, chrome, etc. ;)

gugie 03-24-21 11:31 AM


Originally Posted by RiddleOfSteel (Post 21982766)
I was implying that the new fork you make could match the frame's color, not the black of the current fork. As to the fork's originality, I've seen plenty of unicrown forks mated to frames in a non-form-matching way (diameter of the fork blades is much less than the headtube, and has a welded pedestal to create the base for the crown race and "match" the headtube diameter), even on modern bikes. So who knows.

As our resident design expert, match grey on the fork?

RiddleOfSteel 03-24-21 12:02 PM


Originally Posted by gugie (Post 21982781)
As our resident design expert, match grey on the fork?

Matching the grey would look just fine, as would matching the orange. Like we see in '80s paint schemes, but adapted to a Y2K era bike, it seems things are "fading" from orange in the front to grey in the back, graphically. The color blocs as graphics allows a grey fork to "work" just fine, and the "color fade" of the frame overall allows an orange fork. A win either way, IMO. The grey is likely easier to match, and a grey fork carries the additional advantage of not being next to a grey headtube--if the greys didn't match, we'd see it, but if they are given a little distance between each other, a slight variation in shade between the two is either unnoticeable or not a big deal.

noglider 03-24-21 12:13 PM

@USAZorro, what did you dislike about your Cross Check? I had two. The first one, I equipped with very light wheels, and that balanced the bike out to a nice-riding machine. It was too big, so I swapped it for a smaller size, and I built it up differently with heavier wheels. It was boring and slow. The weights of the frame and fork were unforgivable, so I sold that one, too.

As for concessions to modern elements, I've conceded most of those on @gugie's new bike but not on all one bike. I have a couple of tig-welded bikes. I have had a threadless headset, and they are practical and nice to work on, but they are usually (but not always) ugly. I've had a sloping top tube, and I don't think that's so bad. Most of my bikes have brifters, and I won't apologize for that, because I love them. I haven't had couplers yet, and I think they're terrific, no need to apologize for. I have not owned a carbon fiber frame, but I might one day.

USAZorro 03-24-21 12:32 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 21982860)
@USAZorro, what did you dislike about your Cross Check? I had two. The first one, I equipped with very light wheels, and that balanced the bike out to a nice-riding machine. It was too big, so I swapped it for a smaller size, and I built it up differently with heavier wheels. It was boring and slow. The weights of the frame and fork were unforgivable, so I sold that one, too.

As for concessions to modern elements, I've conceded most of those on @gugie's new bike but not on all one bike. I have a couple of tig-welded bikes. I have had a threadless headset, and they are practical and nice to work on, but they are usually (but not always) ugly. I've had a sloping top tube, and I don't think that's so bad. Most of my bikes have brifters, and I won't apologize for that, because I love them. I haven't had couplers yet, and I think they're terrific, no need to apologize for. I have not owned a carbon fiber frame, but I might one day.


It was a Long Haul Trucker. It was "boring and slow" and also rather heavy. I got it because I wanted to try randonneuring, and while it was very stable and had every conceivable fitting and mounting on it, it was exhausting to get uphill (and the Potomac Randonneurs seemed to have a hard-on for mixing in every possible short, steep climb in amongst their longer leg-breakers - 11,000+ feet of climbing over a 200K anyone?). It came nowhere near comporting itself the way that bicycles that Jan Heine had been reviewing. Senor Ramos met me for a ride at Gettysburg one day, liked it enough (as a small child trailer puller) that he traded me two imported frames for it. I built up the "Colnago" (which may or may not have really been one) for my son. He rode it once and had no interest in continuing riding, so I ended up moving those along - using the proceeds to acquire what is now my gugified, Competizione, and a Viking Severn Valley - which also ultimately failed the "this is a randonneuse" test.

The 1954 Hetchin's which I passed along had a lovely, an age-appropriate, threadless headset which wasn't a bit out of place and had positive aesthetics. Now gone for 3+ years though. I have a few brifter-equipped amongst the armada, and they are nice. They are my second choice behind bar-ends as a generalization, but it's hard to imagine the Bob Jackson or the "Hippy Bike" without them. Aluminum and carbon bicycles though... still a hard pass here. Sloping top tube? Well, I am still looking for a mixte frame to put on my trainer. It would get a lot more use than the current arrangement which requires wall climbing and superior balance skills to mount.

RiddleOfSteel 03-24-21 02:17 PM

@gugie I did some quick Photoshopping of both a grey and orange fork.

The grey fork looks completely at home on this bike given the graphic theme of the frame. Good news!
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7953287952.jpg

The orange fork looks even better, to me that is. Here you can see the orange-to-grey "fade" or "gradient" at work. I'd choose this route, but honestly, IMO, you can't lose with either. :)
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ba38bac634.jpg

Andy_K 03-24-21 02:23 PM


Originally Posted by gugie (Post 21982669)
Glossy black is easy to match. Oddly, it's the only glossy black part on the bike, perhaps this wasn't the original fork?

I was curious about this, so I did some Googling. It sounds like it would have originally come with a carbon fork, so it's good that you got steel, even if it does have a unicrown -- baby steps. I did read one comment that suggested it might have also been sold without the fork. If you're feeling really heretical, the original carbon fork is available. It might be hard to re-rake or braze things on to though. I stand by my suggestion that you should build a new fork with a biplane crown. Then maybe design a rinko front rack, something that folds flat but attaches quickly.

gugie 03-24-21 02:28 PM


Originally Posted by RiddleOfSteel (Post 21983085)
@gugie I did some quick Photoshopping of both a grey and orange fork.
The grey fork looks completely at home on this bike given the graphic theme of the frame. Good news!
The orange fork looks even better, to me that is. Here you can see the orange-to-grey "fade" or "gradient" at work. I'd choose this route, but honestly, IMO, you can't lose with either. :)

Since I'm building a front rack for it as well, perhaps grey would be a better choice? Also, as you note, easier to match with fewer consequences if it's off a bit.

Email sent about matching color and gloss.

gugie 03-24-21 02:42 PM


Originally Posted by RiddleOfSteel (Post 21982089)
I think anything is better than the fork that's on it now. Thank goodness the bike is in your hands now! You can both rectify it aesthetically and functionally. The fork's color could even match. The possibilities!


Originally Posted by Andy_K (Post 21983103)
I was curious about this, so I did some Googling. It sounds like it would have originally come with a carbon fork, so it's good that you got steel, even if it does have a unicrown -- baby steps. I did read one comment that suggested it might have also been sold without the fork. If you're feeling really heretical, the original carbon fork is available. It might be hard to re-rake or braze things on to though. I stand by my suggestion that you should build a new fork with a biplane crown. Then maybe design a rinko front rack, something that folds flat but attaches quickly.

:thumb:

So, went to the Strawberry site, as I'd seen that fork crown before and figured I'd build a frame around it someday. I ordered it along with some incidentals, and found that local pickup was available. Downtown Portland is 20 minute from work, so I took off early and met Andy Newland and his two Lagotto Romagnolo dogs Fausto and Alba. I was invited into the Inner Sanctum, we sat and talked for a few hours about all things bici, then got a quick tour of the shop. I was tempted to buy some Marchetti framebuilding tools, but my pickup isn't rated for that kind of weight. Framebuilder Supply was out of the lugged dropouts I wanted to use, Nova Cycle had them, so I ordered. The pre-bent fork blades that Framebuilder Supply sells are exactly what I was looking for, nice curve, light, but not too light. I also bought a steerer from them, so I'm good to go to make a fork. Small bits for cantilevers, rack mounts, etc. I've got in spades. Rack also per your suggestion, Andy.

Torch, stat!

Classtime 03-24-21 10:39 PM

Shoot! Am I too late to suggest a segmented fork for the Ritchie? Save that fork crown for that other frame you were dreaming up.

gugie 03-24-21 11:24 PM


Originally Posted by Classtime (Post 21983805)
Shoot! Am I too late to suggest a segmented fork for the Ritchie? Save that fork crown for that other frame you were dreaming up.

Segmented forks just look a bit too Frankenstein for my taste, and I know where I can get more of those fork crowns if I want, but they're too narrow for 42+ and fenders.

merziac 03-25-21 01:17 AM


Originally Posted by gugie (Post 21983829)
Segmented forks just look a bit too Frankenstein for my taste, and I know where I can get more of those fork crowns if I want, but they're too narrow for 42+ and fenders.

You gotta go to 650B for more clearance, that's what they were originally designed for, still probably can't get to 42 and fenders. ;)

nlerner 03-25-21 05:22 AM

Well, I’m glad you’re rolling your own on the fork, but in case you change your mind there’s this index:

https://bikepacking.com/index/forks-...e-cage-mounts/

Measure your A/C, stat!

gugie 03-25-21 08:57 AM


Originally Posted by merziac (Post 21983861)
You gotta go to 650B for more clearance, that's what they were originally designed for, still probably can't get to 42 and fenders. ;)

That would be a major change to the entire bike. In reality, I have room for maybe 700c x 44 tires on this frame without fenders. 700c x 35's is a good sweet spot for road/occassional gravel. Remove the fenders, swap out the tires, I've got a really good gravel bike. The only thing missing would be disk brakes for long, steep downhills, but I've got a bike for that already.

gugie 03-25-21 09:01 AM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 21983936)
Well, I’m glad you’re rolling your own on the fork, but in case you change your mind there’s this index:

https://bikepacking.com/index/forks-...e-cage-mounts/

Measure your A/C, stat!

Hadn't thought of putting 3 cage mounts on the fork, I'll add that to the list!

Way ahead of you with dimensions. I've already done a back of the envelope design for the fork, I need to pull it for a more precise measurement. Gotta know the head tube angle as well, since I'm shooting for 40-45mm of trail.

merziac 03-25-21 01:50 PM


Originally Posted by gugie (Post 21984247)
That would be a major change to the entire bike. In reality, I have room for maybe 700c x 44 tires on this frame without fenders. 700c x 35's is a good sweet spot for road/occassional gravel. Remove the fenders, swap out the tires, I've got a really good gravel bike. The only thing missing would be disk brakes for long, steep downhills, but I've got a bike for that already.

:thumb:

Oh I get it, I was lucky Dave was willing to use them on my bike and made them work very well since I had to have the short calipers and 32's, he of course said what about fenders. I don't plan on them but could always do the reach around if I wanted. ;)

browngw 03-25-21 02:14 PM

Thou art forgiven for modern steel. My "real" bike is a very comfortable 2014 Salsa Vaya with a triple Sora setup running 700x38c tires with fenders. I bought it new as it captured my idea of an adventure bike and it hasn't let me down. When I ride in local tours, I usually choose a classic. It creates lots of conversation, reinforces my reputation as a retrogrouch, and provides an excuse for being slow.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7c1e37b3ce.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...aecc96c305.jpg

gugie 03-25-21 07:33 PM

With some help from @RiddleOfSteel and an email to Ritchey's galactic headquarters, colors have been ascertained. The orange is Pantone 159, the grey is Pantone 431 for those keeping score at home. Powder colors don't come in Pantone, but I found a Pantone to RAL converter. Pantone 431 is equivalent to RAL 7005, I couldn't find an orange equivalent for 159, but after some back and forth emails with Dan, grey sounded like the safer bet anyways for match.

When I got home my Framebuilder Supply package had arrived, so I pulled the torch out and made the fork crown and steerer one.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4f7bf7f793.jpg
Need to slather on more flux nex time to save time on the cleanup!

The lug type fork dropouts won't arrive from Nova Cycles until tomorrow, they'll mate to the blades, then blades to fork crown. Add a few small bits and drop it off at the powder coater. Sounds quick and easy, I'll probably get it done in 2-6 weeks.

Also in the Ritchey email was confirmation that the frame was sold with a carbon fiber fork, so the steel one was aftermarket.

merziac 03-25-21 07:41 PM

And that my friends if whats known as "getting after it". :thumb:

nlerner 03-25-21 09:50 PM

And you’re gonna go for disc front and canti rear brake, right?

gugie 03-25-21 11:19 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 21985515)
And you’re gonna go for disc front and canti rear brake, right?

discs and cantis front and rear. Belt & suspenders ftw!


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