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I bought it for the dropouts

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I bought it for the dropouts

Old 03-31-21, 08:57 AM
  #1  
iab
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I bought it for the dropouts

So in hindsight, this was not a great decision. The buying and shipping and receiving has been a great big pain in the ass. The overall quality of the build is definitely questionable. I paid way too much. But ... as best as I know, it has first generation Campagnolo cambio corsa rear dropouts. I'd say, to the best of my knowledge, it was made no later than 1939, could have been earlier. It was made by a company called Paglianti out of Treviso. I don't know when Antonio Paglianti started his company, but he applied for a trademark in 1938.

The dropout itself has 13 teeth, a "flair" at the leading edge of the dropout opening and most telling, the fender eyelet is in the middle of the stay and not at the top of the stay. I have only seen that on pre-1940 bikes.

The closest brush with fame Paglianti had, again, as best as I can tell, is they hired Giovanni Pinarello at the age of 15 in 1937. Some places on the internet say Pinarello built frames, others just say he worked at Paglianti. I lean towards he actually brazed, unlike Ernesto Colnago's time at Gloria. In 1951 Pinarello "won" the maglia nera at the Giro. Bottecchia (his team), paid him a 100K lira bonus to be off the team. I read that Pinarello and his brother were making bikes on the side from 1946-1951 and with the Bottecchia cash, they opened Pinarello in 1952. So could have this frame been built by Giovanni Pinarello? Considering the low quality craft, it could have been made by an apprentice. But we will never know.

Paglianti 01 by iabisdb, on Flickr

Paglianti 02 by iabisdb, on Flickr

Paglianti 03 by iabisdb, on Flickr

Paglianti 04 by iabisdb, on Flickr

Paglianti 05 by iabisdb, on Flickr

Paglianti 06 by iabisdb, on Flickr
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Old 03-31-21, 09:16 AM
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Hey, I like it a lot, love it in fact. Dig those bridges. Once you get it stripped, you may feel much differently about it -- even now better build quality than just about any Raleigh. What's not to like? Italian charm. Have an espresso and congratulate yourself on having gotten the seatpost clamp, headset and crank: difficult to find correct ones for a bike like that. What's the branding on the crank?
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Old 03-31-21, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Charles Wahl View Post
Hey, I like it a lot, love it in fact. Dig those bridges. Once you get it stripped, you may feel much differently about it -- even now better build quality than just about any Raleigh. What's not to like? Italian charm. Have an espresso and congratulate yourself on having gotten the seatpost clamp, headset and crank: difficult to find correct ones for a bike like that. What's the branding on the crank?
On the back of the crank, FB, on the front, Paglianti.

I also have Paglianti hubs. The rear barrel is large enough for a qr lever, but it has a solid axle. Could be a replacement or a previous owner did not like the cambio corsa.

And I don't think the seatpost collar is original. Too nice.
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Old 03-31-21, 10:00 AM
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-----

someone certainly took some time with the shell

taking the sockets down to paper thinness


-----
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Old 03-31-21, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by juvela View Post
-----

someone certainly took some time with the shell

taking the sockets down to paper thinness


-----
Yes. The exception to the rest of the frame. I mean, it isn't horrible overall, but does not hold a candle to the 42 Frejus.
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Old 03-31-21, 10:54 AM
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While I don't know what you paid for it, I would say that is a great looking bike! To me, and I'm no expert, the brazing and craftsmanship look good. This was made in 1939, after all, and I would think that the standards are not what they were later on.

At first, I thought that the dropouts were forged for the left with the P facing forward and the right with the P facing rearward, however, looking closer at your close up picture (thank for the clear pic), it looks like the "P" was cut out and brazed into the opening. Nice detail.

It has a good looking crankset as well.

I look forward to pictures if and when you build it into a bike.
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Old 03-31-21, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Velo Mule View Post
This was made in 1939, after all, and I would think that the standards are not what they were later on.
I will respectively disagree. Of the dozens of Italian bikes I have viewed over the years from the 20s/30s/40s, as a whole, they are better built than the following decades. They are closer to artisan bikes than mass-produced bikes.

Of course there are exceptions. This bike being one of them.
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Old 03-31-21, 12:23 PM
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That’ll look great with Di2!
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Old 03-31-21, 12:24 PM
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But seriously, much respect for your interest in this leriod, these frames and bikes, and your ability to source, photograph, and explain them for our edification.o
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Old 03-31-21, 01:04 PM
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Very neat to see. What are the plans...that title is a bit ominous.
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Old 03-31-21, 02:34 PM
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No plans as of now. Sorry about the ominousness of the title, there will be no destruction of anything. Those dropouts are something not often seen, and I am pleased as punch to have something this unique.

But I also have a Frejus frame that requires, as this frame does, a first-gen Campagnolo 2-lever derailleur. Those are also difficult to source and quite pricey. Handlebars are also difficult. The Frejus gets the full monty first and the Paglianti will adorn the wall while my coffers are replenished. All I have to do is sell several hundred pairs of reproduction Vittoria hoods. Should only take a decade or two.
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Old 03-31-21, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by iab View Post
I will respectively disagree. Of the dozens of Italian bikes I have viewed over the years from the 20s/30s/40s, as a whole, they are better built than the following decades. They are closer to artisan bikes than mass-produced bikes.

Of course there are exceptions. This bike being one of them.
I am learning, of course, as I don't have much familiarity with these older bikes.
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Old 03-31-21, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by iab View Post
No plans as of now. Sorry about the ominousness of the title, there will be no destruction of anything. Those dropouts are something not often seen, and I am pleased as punch to have something this unique.
Glad to see I wasn't the only one who thought, however briefly, that based on the title there were plans to remove those sweet dropouts and use them elsewhere...... obviously that thought only lasted a second
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Old 03-31-21, 05:25 PM
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I like it. The spreadsheet total cost to make it a bicycle again... Luck or Wallet or both in large doses.

for the 30’s, I would say even a bit ahead of its contemporaries geometry wise,
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Old 03-31-21, 08:08 PM
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The bottom head lug is at least partially thinned. They must have gotten tired of it before they got to the top head lug and seat lug.
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Old 03-31-21, 08:15 PM
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I can really appreciate just how 'impossible' it would have been to pass on this frame. I reckon it was a fantastic buy. Perhaps it's not as 'artsy' as some but it's beautiful all the same.

I really enjoyed the brief history lesson too. Best wishes for whatever you do with this frame and it's in the best of hands. Really, it's such a joy to examine it just as it is.

Last edited by Gary Fountain; 03-31-21 at 08:19 PM.
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Old 03-31-21, 10:59 PM
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That is very neat to see and learn a little.

You may have read this, but if not, the first part of this book may sound familiar as Tim Moore tries to build up a replica of a 1914 Giro bike and then ride it on the actual complete route. Fun read.

https://www.amazon.com/Gironimo-Ridi.../dp/1681771284
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Old 04-01-21, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
The bottom head lug is at least partially thinned. They must have gotten tired of it before they got to the top head lug and seat lug.
A secret to preventing high speed shimmy on descents.
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Old 04-03-21, 08:08 AM
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I cleaned up the hubs. Not bad for 80+ years. FB stamped Paglianti. At some point in the 80 years, someone replaced the internals. The front was something pretty new, like the 1980s. The rear though is a solid axle. Someone didn't like the Campagnolo 2-lever derailleur. Anyhow, the "replacement" parts have cones stamped FB 35 (1935). I think that is interesting.

Paglianti Hubs 01 by iabisdb, on Flickr

Paglianti Hubs 10 by iabisdb, on Flickr

Paglianti Hubs 11 by iabisdb, on Flickr

Paglianti Hubs 09 by iabisdb, on Flickr

Paglianti Hubs 15 by iabisdb, on Flickr
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Old 04-03-21, 08:57 AM
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Wow ! I hope you let us know what is going to happen with this piece of history. I would love to see a bike grow out of this , although a nice art piece as it is on its own. I try to imagine what it was like learning a trade in years gone by especially in Europe in those days. I learned my trade at eighteen in an aerospace factory in the early seventies when we had apprenticeship programs that taught vocational skills such as machining. My apprenticeship took almost seven years to reach journeyman status. In those days it was skills like those that built that bike that would span a lifetime .
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Old 04-03-21, 10:24 AM
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Bottom line, you did good! What a great piece of history.😃
Cheers,
Van
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Old 04-03-21, 10:45 AM
  #22  
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That frame is beautiful! It doesn’t have any workmanship issues visible in your photos that I wouldn’t accept. Enjoy hanging it up for now but I’m really hoping to see a bike built from this someday. I don’t know what you paid or what shipping issues you had to tolerate, but for a frame like this I’d tolerate a lot.
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