TrashBoat

Hi,

I just picked up an old 1983 Specialized Expedition frame, and have some questions about how to build it back up.

My biggest question is about the cantilever spacing. I assume this uses the more narrow canti posts. Could I make breaks like the Dia-Compe 980's (the ones sold by Rivendell) work? Or only vintage canti brakes? Any brake suggestions?

If I'm not asking the right questions or there's something glaringly obvious that I'm missing, please point me to the right way. I'm new to this.

Thanks

bikemig 

You're asking the right question. The problem is that the answer is mainly trial and (expensive) error. Maybe someone here has had success with this combo. Alternatively find a set of quality vintage cantilevers.

jPrichard10 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Dia Compe 980s are about the oldest cantilever that they made (along with 960s). I'm certain they were around in 1983, so unless they changed how they were made they should fit fine.

What was original spec for an '83 Expedition?

The Golden Boy 

They re-used the number.







IIRC- the Expedition came with Shimano BR-MC70 XT brakes.

jPrichard10 

Oh, I stand corrected then! I wonder what possessed them to use the same number. Those new 980s look real nice though!

An old set of 980s or 960s shouldn't be hard to come by, but GC 982s are probably my favorite look for an 80s touring bike.

niliraga 

the only 1983 Expedition that passed through my hands (and it was mostly original from what I could tell) had Shimano Deore cantis of similar vintage, even though levers were Suntour's Superbe.

I have a set of pretty DiaCompe 983s I'd be happy to trade out; they don't support 27->700c conversions, but that won't be your problem with the Expedition designed for 700c from the get go.

scarlson 

I have a 1983 Expedition frame that I've been thinking about building up here. They came with wide profile Deore cantis, which were essentially the same geometry for some years, thru different models, up until they went to the narrow profile ones.

I can try it out with some 700c wheels and some Deore cantis and also some newer low profile ones and some vee brakes, and see what the deal is. My gut feeling is it'll work with most anything that has a wide range of pad adjustment up and down, but you'll end up near the bottom of the adjustment which is good for mechanical advantage.

The Golden Boy 

Didn't you have problems with narrow canti spacing and Tektro 720s- even with the intended sized wheel?

That's a good point- The early MC-70 brakes were a little more crude- but the later MT-62 and M-732 brakes had a little better adjustment, polished up really nicely and had adjustable return spring tension. They were also SLR compatible. I generally like to side towards the Suntour/Sugino/DiaCompe/Sanshin over Shimano- however Shimano's XT and Deore canti brakes are really really good- until DC caught up with the XC Pro style design.

If'n I were to be building up an 83 Expedition, I would go for XT M-732 brakes. They're just better than the MC70s and I like the big triangle design. I don't think I'd monkey around with new brakes- unless I already had them.


MC70M732MT62 by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr



If you do like the early DiaCompe designs- the NGC982s are the cat's pyjamas but they're pretty rare and pricey, and I think the 981s are nicer than the 980s.

RiddleOfSteel

Another vote for MC70s or M732s.

TrashBoat

Thanks for all the help I have a lot to think about. My buddy says he might have some MC-70s that I'll give a try and if not I might try to take someone up on there 983s or look for MC-732s.

Are there any other issues/tips you guys have about setup?

niliraga 

One thing i've noticed - to be sure the Shimano pieces are pretty and very well engineered. But the exposed spring design on DiaCompes turns out to be really useful when adjusting things; you can neatly disengage spring tension to avoid fighting it the whole time, then re-tension it when done.

jPrichard10 

I definitely don't consider the Shimano cantis to be "pretty," (compared to most of the Dia Compe/ Suntour cantis) but I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Thanks for the spring tip. I'm looking for any excuse to use GC 960s over the Shimanos, which are definitely the better brake.

niliraga 

I also prefer the DC shape to the Shimanos, but the finish is quite impressive on the early Deore stuff.

I would avoid the 960s - they have shorter arms and provide less power unless you really fine tune the straddle length. They were the budget "base model" compared with the 98x. My experience is that 981s are just as powerful and "fittable" as the MC70s, and also a big step up in every way from the 960s

jPrichard10 

Good to know. I haven't used 960s before, but I'm trying to do a 1979 build without cheating, and I don't like the 980s. Maybe I'll cheat a little here and "update" the brakes to 982s.

That is, if I value stopping more than looks. 960s were original gear on several 70s and early 80s touring bikes, I guess Specialized knew better when they specced Shimano cantis for the Expedition.

fender1

+1. I recently converted a 1983 Schwinn Voyageur SP to 700c wheels and the Dia Compe 981 brakes were the only option that worked. I tried about 7 different canti types.

I also found the 981's to be relatively easy to set up because of the exposed spring. The post spacing on my Schwinn was 60mm on the front and 66mm on the rear.

Charles Wahl

I got an Expedition frame/fork and other parts several years ago that was supposedly a 1983 model (Serial begins with L) and it came with Shimano MT-60 cantilevers. FWIW.

JaccoW

I have an early 80's Batavus frame with narrow canti studs that I used the new Dia-Compe 980's on. They work but do need Koolstop thinlines to work.
The bike originally had wide-profile Mafac cantilever clones by Weinmann but when I got it there was a variant of the Shimano BR-CT91 low-profile cantilevers on the front. Also available in black under the Deore line.
I got my hands on a pair of 90's/00's Empella Frog Legs, which are cyclocross copies of the same brake in black or actual carbon but I haven't tried these on here yet.

According to the spec sheet your Expedition used "Shimano Deore XT Cantilevers" and that was probably the wide-profile Shimano BR-MC70 - Deore XT M700. Though the later low-profile Shimano BR-M737 - Deore XT would also work. Those, and its variants are really common and can still be had brand new.
I've also seen them in black (Shimano BR-M560 - Deore LX) and a weird pinkish chrome in the Shimano STX-RC lineup. They stop pretty well and are cheap.

beicster 

FYI-I had a machinist mill an additional 3-4 mm of material out of the adjustment slot on my DC 981s over a year ago to allow me to fit 700c wheels on my 85 Voyageur. I have had no problems with them since.

Untitled by Andy Beichler, on Flickr