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Vintage 'Winchester' roadbike help required please.

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Vintage 'Winchester' roadbike help required please.

Old 04-11-21, 03:22 AM
  #1  
Stevewinchester
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Vintage 'Winchester' roadbike help required please.

Hi all, I wonder if anyone can possibly help me with some, if any, information about my vintage roadbike ?
It's got a 'Winchester' emblem on it, but it's not the gun company emblem. This one has what looks like a 'Roebuck' and a Crown in diagonal corners and Winchester across diagonally the respective corners.
it's a very light frame, 2665g to be exact. The frame is constructed of Nervex lugs that are all brazed into the tubing.
it's a very beautiful bike and has been commented on many times, and is lovely to ride. Unfortunately it's started to rust out, so I want to restore it back to its 70's look, however I'm really struggling with info on what it is, who made it and when. But most of all, quite frustratingly, what colour schemes they were released in and the ancillary equipment?
Please can anyone help as I've spent hours and hours on the net researching and the only thing I've ever found was 3 photos of 1 yellow bike on this forum some years ago, which was identical to mine ! But there was no info other than it might be Japanese in origin.
kind regards Steve
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Old 04-11-21, 07:18 AM
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nlerner
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Steve, some years back I bought a Winchester from a local seller. Pics below. You can see it had a "Made in Mexico" decal and consensus was that it was a Windsor-Mexico/Acer-Mex product.






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Old 04-11-21, 07:44 AM
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Looks like a private label Windsor - close to the Carrera model.
braxton might have been the importing shop.
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Old 04-11-21, 09:53 AM
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With a white example... your color choices have doubled! Looks like a cool project, as I like the weird off brand stuff... I'm sorry I can't help you out, other than some encouragement.
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Old 04-11-21, 10:00 AM
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nlerner
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Originally Posted by uncle uncle View Post
With a white example... your color choices have doubled! Looks like a cool project, as I like the weird off brand stuff... I'm sorry I can't help you out, other than some encouragement.
The OP reports that his is yellow. If you're talking about the one I posted, here's what it looked like when I sold it off:

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Old 04-11-21, 03:18 PM
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Wasn't that what REI called the Winsdors they sold?
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Old 04-12-21, 06:38 AM
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Winchester starting to make sense !

OMG !! Thank you so much nlerner! That is almost identical to my bike! Same Emblem and lugging.
I just received a post on another site saying that he also thought it was a Windsor and made in Mexico!
I can't believe it. I've spent so many hours on the net trying to find just a scratch of info about this bike and come up with nothing.
I stripped it last week ready for a restoration as it had previously been sprayed to a poor level and rust was coming through. On shot blasting I came across a metallic purple colour underneath so now I have somewhere to go with. I'll see if Windsor had this colour in there inventory.
You can't believe how much you've helped and pleased me.
many many thanks to you.😊
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Old 04-12-21, 08:42 AM
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Who is 'Winchester '

So again many thanks to nlerner for his enlightenment on the origins of my bike !
But the question still remains 'Who Are Winchester' ??
I live in Dorset UK, and down the road is a town named Winchester! This may have thrown me off the rite track when trying to identify my frame etc ?
I know in the US you also have a Winchester?
But if my bike is a Windsor Mexico, then why does it have a Winchester emblem. Who are they? Why was Windsor selling them frames ? Are they like Cosworth are to Ford or Lotus to Ford ? Using a base frame and then custom building for clients or building there own line of bikes based around the Windsor frame?
Someone must know the Winchester branding.
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Old 04-12-21, 10:01 AM
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A bit off topic and definitely not a road bike but I had this for a short while. Wish I had hung on to it. The bike was extremely heavy but felt like it would just keep going and going, once you got it going...
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Old 04-14-21, 02:55 AM
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Nice bike, don't often see a double crossbar.
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Old 04-14-21, 04:42 PM
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To nlerner, your bike is a dead ringer for mine, but have you ever got any closer to finding out what the 'Winchester' emblem is about, seeing as the bike seems to be a Windsor-Mexico ?
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Old 04-16-21, 07:34 AM
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Yep, that's an Acer-Mex Windsor. It should use a 21.1 stem. I had one that looked just like it. Although I can't help with the "Winchester" logo, I must say the paint looks almost identical to the patina mine had when I got it.
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Old 04-16-21, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Sluggo View Post
Wasn't that what REI called the Winsdors they sold?

REI's were called Carabella. Living near their headquarters, I still see them pop up occasionally.
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Old 04-16-21, 07:41 AM
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Cheers 4 that ! Don't suppose you have any pictures of it do you ?
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Old 04-16-21, 08:01 AM
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FAO Trakhak, so if I'm correct in what your saying?
Because my bike has a Windsor labelled bottom bracket spindle. Then it won't be a Windsor bike, as bike manufacturers make the frames but won't fit they're own ancillaries?
Sorry ! I'm a little confused?
Also another bit of info is that I've measured the lower bracket spindle set and my caps measure roughly 36mm/1.4inch diameter, which indicates an Italian lower bracket?? Is that correct ?
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Old 04-16-21, 08:25 AM
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to help with condensing relevant info into one thread:
Originally Posted by stevewinchester View Post
hi all. As you know that at the moment i'm trying to restore my vintage roadbike, and have really struggled to find out its origins. Its thanks to all of you, for supplying me with links and photos, that i have got half way there ! 😊
whilst stripping the bike down ready for a respray, i de-greased the crankset and measured up the ball bearings etc for new replacements. Upon wire wheeling the crank shaft , low and behold, bang in the centre of the shaft were the letters windsor!
I've checked the windsor back catalogue, but cannot find one of there frames i.e comp, pro etc etc which has nervex style lugging. Nor can i find any correlation with the winchester head badge?
So...i'm slowly gaining snippets of info, but could still do with some assistance.
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Old 04-16-21, 09:27 AM
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-----

hello Stevewinchester & thanks for sharing this find!

cycle identical to the Windsor Carrera Sport model of ca. 1973

lug pattern is not NERVEX but rather one from Agrati

it is shown on the right in this triptych illustration -



the seat lug was offered in three configurations:

a) bare, without binder ears or Malaguti plugs

b) without binder ears but with Malaguti plugs (as shown)

c) with binder ears and without Malaguti plugs (as on your cycle)

fork crown is from the Agrati "BRIANZA" pattern lug set nr. 000.8030/U and is item nr. 000.8038

the frame has two slightly odd measurements:

a) the steerer and stem size is .833

b) the bottom bracket shell is 68mm in width but is Italian threaded, 36.0mm X 24 TPI

missing pedals were KKT RTSF

missing rear mech was Suntour VGT Luxe

handlebar stem is Gran Compe

original brake calipers were DiaCompe centrepull


-----
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Old 04-16-21, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Dylansbob View Post
REI's were called Carabella. Living near their headquarters, I still see them pop up occasionally.
Ahhh - that's an interesting tidbit I didn't know.
My 25" Carabella SemiPro looked nice with chrome lugs, but did not suit me as a road bike.
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Old 04-16-21, 09:49 AM
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Wow ! All that info is amazing !
Many thanks 😊
I had an inklin it might be a Windsor, but couldn't pin the model down. My bike has a mix of dérailleurs on it which I'm gonna upgrade. Unfortunately I used the Pro model as an idea for restoration and have already ordered a Campy Nuovo Record front derailleur instead of the Suntour which I knew had been fitted to other models. Damn !




Mine has still got the original pull Dia Compe brake calipers and Compe Stem fitted.
I'm just spending a little time polishing them up to see if they are save able. Seems they are and looking 👍
Would you scrap the Campy dérailleurs and opt for the Suntours ??
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Old 04-16-21, 10:11 AM
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Hi all, I think that there maybe some confusion with who's bike is who's, as being a newbie, I've not been able to post photos of my bike. But now I can.
so here they come...








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Old 04-16-21, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Stevewinchester View Post
Wow ! All that info is amazing !
Many thanks 😊
I had an inklin it might be a Windsor, but couldn't pin the model down. My bike has a mix of dérailleurs on it which I'm gonna upgrade. Unfortunately I used the Pro model as an idea for restoration and have already ordered a Campy Nuovo Record front derailleur instead of the Suntour which I knew had been fitted to other models. Damn !




Mine has still got the original pull Dia Compe brake calipers and Compe Stem fitted.
I'm just spending a little time polishing them up to see if they are save able. Seems they are and looking 👍
Would you scrap the Campy dérailleurs and opt for the Suntours ??
-----

apologies for the brake caliper error

me "mind" confused images contributed by nlerner with your example

stock (default) wheels were built with Sansin Matsumoto "Sunshine" brand hubs of large flange QR with small round holes in flanges

rims were Windsor - Ukai tubulars

tyres were Soyo cotton tubulars

gear block was Suntour Pro Compe

---

your gear mech question -

its your bike - do whatever you wish

one advantage of the original rear gear mech is its much greater capacity

keep in mind that the stock Suntour Compe V front mech operates "backwards", i.e. it is "top normal"

-----
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Old 04-16-21, 08:41 PM
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It has always baffled me that an Italian-style bike manufactured in Mexico was given a British name. And I would guess that it is not because the royal family had a majority share of stock in Acer-Mex. And the similar alternate name, also British, but sounding like a rifle in the US, is just confusing.

My previous post about REI was based on my unreliable memory of an unreliable comment from a bike shop colleague in 1980 or so when a Winchester came in for service. We were close enough to Seattle to see some dispersion of goods, but not close enough for good information.

We later (or maybe contemperaneously) sold Windsors for a while. Their lower- and middle-tier bikes were a solid C- for QC and workmanship.
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Old 04-17-21, 04:49 AM
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I'm glad that I'm not the only one who is finding this whole Acer-Mex / Windsor thing very confusing ?
Especially for novice like myself. However I have learned so much in knowledge and bike structures from my efforts and all the help from the group. 👍😊
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Old 04-17-21, 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Stevewinchester View Post
Hi all, I think that there maybe some confusion with who's bike is who's, as being a newbie, I've not been able to post photos of my bike. But now I can.
so here they come...








-----

thanks so much for these pictures; excellent job with them!

they show bicycle to be a model below the Carrera Sport

it looks to be the base model termed the Carrera

is the chainset it came with cottered steel?

this would explain the Windsor marking you found on the spindle centre

great to see it "in person" at last


-----
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Old 04-17-21, 07:02 PM
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Yes it is, Windsor written across the crank pin.
I know it all looks a bit tatty at the moment.
And the derailleur set is a mix match of rubbish! so I've ordered some Campy nouvo record dérailleurs to fit in with the build era
But in the next couple of weeks I'll get to paint it and tidy it up and will post some images once done.
I just wanna get riding again!
Once back in the saddle, I'll start to replace the non era parts peice by peice.
I'm lucky in the fact that it does have original stem handle bar and calipers, which have all polished up lovely , so only a few bits to replace really.

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