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Graphite Tuff Wheel problem

Old 04-18-21, 07:00 PM
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MickStan VR
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Graphite Tuff Wheel problem

I have a set of first generation Graphite Tuff IIs. From about 1981. These have the Campagnolo loose ball hubs.
The rear is a flip-flop hub, and has two different sizes of bearings. The side with the smaller 3/16 bearings needs a new bearing cone. 10x26 thread.
Does anyone know for sure if these are Nuovo Tipo or Record hubs? I cannot find any specific information about the hubs used in these wheels, but I have found cones for both. Some information I found here, on this site, said the cones are interchangable, but there was no mention of hubs with 2 different sized bearings. The cones on both sides look to be same on mine. These wheels have the pressed in dust caps, so the outside diameter of the cone needs to be 16.5mm . And of course, none of the cones I've found online give the outside diameter. And the dust covers for both don't give inside diameters, but do have different part numbers, and they look the same.
Skyway did some kind of non stock Campy configuration to be able to have a flip-flop hub. Tipo and Record hubs do not have 2 different sizes of bearings in the rear hub. They use the larger 1/4 bearings on both sides. I can find nothing that Campagnolo made in that era that had one size bearing on one side and another size on the other.

I got these wheels probably 35+ years ago from a friend and never gave a thought to the hubs other than they are Campagnolo, I never thought about the different models of Campy hubs. Or that I'd ever need a new cone!
I've asked about this on several FaceBook BMX groups also.
Can't post photos as this is my first post!
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Old 04-20-21, 12:05 PM
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This is a tough question. Even though it's BMX you might have better luck in the classic section as there are a lot of campy experts there. All I know is that they used a Campy track hub 1982_olympic_catalog.pdf (wordpress.com) In the catalog the only track hub is a Record 1036. There's 6 types of cones 25/R (front wheel) 32R (Rear) wheel. The R is for Record. And also 25 / 32. And in the older catalogues there's a 1289 / 1290 cone. I honestly don't know the difference but my guess is the Record version has the extra grove cut into them for the extra sealing. Because your hub is a flip flop hub I am wondering if they used smaller bearings on the side with the smaller cup? Or did your friend change out the wrong bearings 40 years ago? I would measure both cones to make sure they are the same.
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Old 05-12-21, 07:01 PM
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I can confirm the smaller bearings on the one side are correct, as another friend has a set of these exact same wheels bought on the same day as these wheels. I have also found that Record cones are heat treated, the Tipo are not. But otherwise they seem to be interchangeable. I'm betting the cones in my graphites are not the heat treated ones, because those apparently have a tendency to crack! From what I've read, the bearing size, and smaller race, only change where the bearing rides on the cone. The key though, is to get the correct cone that fits inside that smaller dust cover. And that smaller dust cover looks just like the ones on the front wheel, though I have not measured both. I can't use a front hub cone either, as its a 9mm axle!
Skyway really put together a morphodite wheel with this one, thats for sure.
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Old 05-12-21, 07:33 PM
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Graphite Tuff Wheel (CAMPY BMX) problem

I posted this in the BMX area, but was told to maybe check in here with this problem.

I have a set of first generation Graphite Tuff IIs. From about 1981. These have the Campagnolo loose ball hubs.
The rear is a flip-flop hub, and has two different sizes of bearings. The side with the smaller 3/16 bearings needs a new bearing cone. 10x26 thread.
Does anyone know for sure if these are Nuovo Tipo or Record hubs? I cannot find any specific information about the hubs used in these wheels, but I have found cones for both. Some information I found here, on this site, said the cones are interchangable, but there was no mention of hubs with 2 different sized bearings. The cones on both sides look to be same on mine but one is a larger outside diameter. These wheels have the pressed in dust caps, so the outside diameter of the cone needs to be 16.5mm . And of course, none of the cones I've found online give the outside diameter. And the dust covers for both don't give inside diameters, but do have different part numbers, and they look the same.
Skyway did some kind of non stock Campy configuration to be able to have a flip-flop hub. Tipo and Record hubs do not have 2 different sizes of bearings in the rear hub. They use the larger 1/4 bearings on both sides. I can find nothing that Campagnolo made in that era that had one size bearing on one side and another size on the other.

I got these wheels probably 35+ years ago from a friend and never gave a thought to the hubs other than they are Campagnolo, I never thought about the different models of Campy hubs. Or that I'd ever need a new cone!
I've asked about this on several FaceBook BMX groups also.
Can't post photos as this is only my third post!

I also posted this as a reply in that area, if this helps:
I can confirm the smaller bearings on the one side are correct, as another friend has a set of these exact same wheels bought on the same day as these wheels. I have also found that Record cones are heat treated, the Tipo are not. But otherwise they seem to be interchangeable. I'm betting the cones in my graphites are not the heat treated ones, because those apparently have a tendency to crack! From what I've read, the bearing size, and smaller race, only change where the bearing rides on the cone. The key though, is to get the correct cone that fits
inside that smaller dust cover. And that smaller dust cover looks just like the ones on the front wheel, though I have not measured both. and I can't use a front hub cone either, as its a 9mm axle!
Skyway really put together a morphodite wheel with this one, thats for sure.

I've looked at the campy 1982 catalog, correct era for these wheels, and these hubs don't really match up with anything. Supposedly Skyway used Track hubs, but there are no track hubs with a 3/8 ball bearing. Gran Sport hubs, yes, but not Tipo, Record or Track!
Sorry for the long post, but I'm at a loss as to just which cone I need! As soon as I get enough posts under my belt, I'll put up some pictures.
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Old 05-13-21, 09:40 AM
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Hi MickStan VR , welcome to Bike Forums. I am seeing this post drop down toward the bottom of the page. We do have Campy experts here, even though they are road bike experts. I am not one of them. The only Campagnolo piece that I ever had was a down tube shifter.

One thing that is interesting or curious is that the ball bearing sizes are different on the two sides. That doesn't sound right to me. Is it possible that someone rebuilt the hub and didn't have the right ball bearings and put the wrong ones in on the one side because they had them. They put it together adjusted the cones, spun the wheel and it spun Ok, so it was ridden this way. Then with the wrong size ball bearing, the contact with the cone (and race) was wrong and this caused the cone to wear more than it should?
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Old 05-13-21, 10:41 AM
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Pictures may help. You can't post pics, but you can save them in your album on your profile for people to see them.
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Old 05-13-21, 03:44 PM
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No, these are totally original. A friend has an identical set and they also have the different sized bearings. And there is no way the larger bearings would fit into the smaller bearing race, and no way that the smaller bearings fit into the larger bearing race correctly. 9 1/4 inch balls in one side and 10 3/8 balls in the smaller side.
This catalog condorino.files.wordpress.com/2020/07/1982_olympic_catalog.pdf on page 18 shows a HiLo hub but it does not show a parts break down of that hub. Page 20 shows part 2105 as 10 3/8 bearings, but those are for a Gran Sport hub, not a Track hub as was supposedly what these wheels used. And of course, nothing gives the actual dimensions of the cones or dust covers.
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Old 05-13-21, 05:51 PM
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Merged duplicate threads. Please do not make any more junk posts to get to 10 as they will be deleted. We suggest that you go to our Introductions forum, introduce yourself, and then say hello to other new forum members.
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Old 05-13-21, 06:06 PM
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MickStanVR,
I think you have some of the early hubs from Campy that were designed just for BMX. I was working in the industry back in the late 70's and early 80's and attended a lot of the ABA and NBA races including the semi nationals and finals. I think I may be able to help you with your problem races. The hubs you have are likely only a few of those left in BMX. It is probably best for you to give me a call instead of a whole bunch of posts between us. Mad Honk 812-336-3283
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Old 05-13-21, 07:59 PM
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OK cool. When is a good time to contact you? I'm on central time and get home from work around 4pm. Real name is Jeff and I'll be calling from area code 618.
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Old 05-13-21, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by cb400bill View Post
Merged duplicate threads. Please do not make any more junk posts to get to 10 as they will be deleted. We suggest that you go to our Introductions forum, introduce yourself, and then say hello to other new forum members.
Sorry, I am trying to get to the bottom of this issue. Don't really have time to go thru all the hoops to prove I'm not a bot or spammer. Although, this is an official reply to you, so it counts toward my ability to post a picture. Thanks!
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Old 05-13-21, 09:54 PM
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The hi- lo hub used 1/4 bearings.

some of the Campag BMX hubs I have seen appeared like tipo level units.
never took one apart.

I did buy a BMX set of cranks and chainring in factory blue as a close out in 1979... still have them sitting in a box. They are 144 BCD machined like pista cranks, stamped Strada on the back.
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Old 05-14-21, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post
The hi- lo hub used 1/4 bearings.

some of the Campag BMX hubs I have seen appeared like tipo level units.
never took one apart.

I did buy a BMX set of cranks and chainring in factory blue as a close out in 1979... still have them sitting in a box. They are 144 BCD machined like pista cranks, stamped Strada on the back.
Thanks for the info on the HiLo hubs! And your cranks might be worth a little bit of money today. People pay alot of money for old school BMX right now.
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