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The "Chronicles of Carlton"

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The "Chronicles of Carlton"

Old 05-02-21, 11:20 AM
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Murray Missile 
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The "Chronicles of Carlton"

Some of you have probably seen my post about my latest acquisition, WTH is this?!. It has been identified, at least to my satisfaction, as a mid-60's Raleigh Carlton.I have a thing for old Raleighs so I am quite thrilled to discover my $20 parts bike buy is a 1960's Raleigh. While not a high end bike by any means and probably quite "pedestrian" to some it does at least have a Reynolds 531 main triangle and some very interesting lugs and most importantly, I like it. It has been suggested by some members whose opinion I have come to value that I should put it back together enough to ride it before going all out on a rebuild. They also suggested I post the process with lots of pictures, they and all of you may come to regret that suggestion because I plan to do just that LOL. My first item on the agenda will be to straighten the slightly bent front fork. Next will be to go through my parts and parts bikes and select a drivetrain that will let me get it on the road quickly. That will almost certainly be Suntour as I have a fair supply of derailleurs, the interim wheelset will be the one I pulled off the Lambert I parted out. They aren't pretty but they're true and the hubs feel nice and smooth. This part shouldn't take long. So stay tuned, there's more to come.

I'm not big on naming inanimate objects but every so often one comes along that begs for it. I always got a kick out of Carlton the door man on the old Mary Tyler Moore show so this bike will henceforth be known simply as, "Carlton".







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Old 05-02-21, 11:46 AM
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I opened this up hoping it would be something by CS Lewis. Instead it’s bicycle click bait, sigh

Seiously, though, looking forward to the build. I’m getting ready to build my 58 claud butler jubilee
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Old 05-02-21, 12:11 PM
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...mid 60's Carlton bicycles look very nice with a better quality cottered crank, iff you're into that sort of thing. Here's a Williams crank on a mid-60's Catalina.


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Old 05-02-21, 02:58 PM
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My next project is Carlton that was rebadged by Raleigh for sale in the North American market. Full paint and art is the plan. I already have all the correct components for the build.

I intend to go with brushed on blue and black, as original...


Simplex transmission, Weinmann center pull brakes and lovely old cottered crank set will be cleaned, polished and re-installed. Or, I am giving serious thought to swapping out the Simplex transmission for a Campy Gran Tourismo one...



Alloy Weinmann rims, complete with buzz pattern brake surface, are original and to be re-installed (might go with stainless spokes if I have two sets that will fit)...


I really like head badges and this old Raleigh one will lead the way with those lovely chrome plated head tube lugs, which are much appreciated...


A bit of polishing on the Milremo stem and GB map of England handlebar will complete the cockpit...



The chrome plating on the head tube lugs is in great shape...


Keeping my eyes peeled for a good deal on a Wrights suspended leather saddle. That original butt perch will be deep sixed asap...
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Old 05-02-21, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
I opened this up hoping it would be something by CS Lewis. Instead it’s bicycle click bait, sigh



Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
.
...mid 60's Carlton bicycles look very nice with a better quality cottered crank, if you're into that sort of thing. Here's a Williams crank on a mid-60's Catalina.


Love that color and the brown they had but mine will most likely get painted the red they had in the late 60's and early 70's like my old Grand Prix..

I believe the Carltons came with that same crankset and yes, I'm into that sort of thing. Whether I return to a cottered crank remains to be seen but the Maxy definitely is not staying past the initial evaluation build.
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Old 05-02-21, 04:13 PM
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Whether I return to a cottered crank remains to be seen but the Maxy definitely is not staying past the initial evaluation build.
I am a cottered crank fan and have been so for a long time...





Well, not all cottered cranks blow my kilt up - pooey stinko (try spinning this one)...
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Old 05-02-21, 04:16 PM
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...I would urge you to do a brief internet search on the functional desirability of that Campag Gran Tourismo rear derailleur.
You can make it work, but it's a bothersome piece of Campagnolo history that looks very pretty, and works pretty ugly.
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Old 05-02-21, 04:45 PM
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Agreed. I had one on my Atala Competizione, and it was a terrible shifter. I hope it didn't cost you much, because the most ethical thing to do with it is to donate to a bike museum or a museum that has a section on crap productions of otherwise quality companies. Maybe a Campy collector would buy it,now that I think of it - GLWS.
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Old 05-02-21, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
.
...I would urge you to do a brief internet search on the functional desirability of that Campag Gran Tourismo rear derailleur.
You can make it work, but it's a bothersome piece of Campagnolo history that looks very pretty, and works pretty ugly.
I have heard this before, however; I do want to give it a try myself. Simply put, my old and arthritic legs cannot push small freewheel sets any more. And, most of my really old bikes are, more than less, wall hangers these days. My rider is my Canadian made Marinoni with a wide gear range.
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Old 05-02-21, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Murray Missile View Post
I always got a kick out of Carlton the door man on the old Mary Tyler Moore show so this bike will henceforth be known simply as, "Carlton".
I might be wrong, but I'm watching MTM on disc these days and Carlton might have been the doorman on the MTM spin-off "Rhoda". Once I order a set of those, I'll let you know.

Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
.
...mid 60's Carlton bicycles look very nice with a better quality cottered crank, iff you're into that sort of thing. Here's a Williams crank on a mid-60's Catalina.
The Maxy is the styrofoam cup of cranksets. Kill it. I'm sure someone will chime in and say they rode one from Eugene to Galveston. Sure... but WHY?

Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
.
...I would urge you to do a brief internet search on the functional desirability of that Campag Gran Tourismo rear derailleur.
You can make it work, but it's a bothersome piece of Campagnolo history that looks very pretty, and works pretty ugly.
Pretty? Wow, I rode one for some time, it's a medieval weapon with jockey wheels and you cannot destroy it. But pretty?
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Old 05-02-21, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by tiger1964 View Post

Pretty? Wow, I rode one for some time, it's a medieval weapon with jockey wheels and you cannot destroy it. But pretty?
...pretty in the '60's Playboy bunny sense. Big and curvy, with the points of interest marked clearly in red.
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Old 05-02-21, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by tiger1964 View Post
I might be wrong, but I'm watching MTM on disc these days and Carlton might have been the doorman on the MTM spin-off "Rhoda". Once I order a set of those, I'll let you know.
I thought Carlton come on in the later seasons of "MTM" and carried over to "Rhoda", but it's been decades since I've watched MTM and didn't really watch Rhoda so you'll get no argument from me. Only a select few will know who he is anyway LOL. When MTM came out my brother lived about 2 blocks from the building they showed in the opening credits as her apt. building and took us by there when we visited him. I also got my first Raleigh in 1971 while visiting him at Wheel Goods Corp. on Hennepin Ave.
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Old 05-02-21, 07:11 PM
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I went to https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0065314...f_=tt_ov_st_sm and searched for "Carlton" and got no hits. But when I went to https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071040/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1, "Carlton the Doorman" showed up as the third cast member (voiced by Lorenzo Music).
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Old 05-21-21, 06:31 PM
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Potential line up for Carlton's final build: Original GB bars and stem, Campagnolo Nuovo Record front and rear derailleurs, Campagnolo cable stops and guides, Suntour barcons, the original Weinmann brakes or Mafac Racers, TA Specialties Cyclotouriste crank arms with Lambert/Viscount chain rings and the RFG hub/Ambrosia rim wheelset it came with rebuilt with stainless spokes and gumwall Panaracers. Haven't decided on a color yet but I found a "candy" bronze I think would look pretty sharp with gold decals, gold lug striping and a Honey Brooks B17. Before that all happens however I need to tear it down, straighten the fork and then build it up with parts bin stuff and ride it a little bit.


The candy bronze........

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Old 05-22-21, 11:42 AM
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Given that I am now a 1962 Carlton Franco-Suisse owner, I am following this thread with great interest. Mine came from my wife's sister with a SunTour VGT rear derailleur, SunTour freewheel, and Sugino crankset, but original(?) Campag. downtube shift levers. I plan to build it as a commuter, gravel grinder, shopping mule with a Pletscher mousetrap rack and 700C x 32-35 tires, perhaps barcons, as well.

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Old 05-22-21, 03:26 PM
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Love those lugs!

Originally Posted by John E View Post
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Old 05-22-21, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Murray Missile View Post
Love those lugs!
Thank you, and thanks to my sis-in-law for giving it to me. Yes, it is a beautiful frame, cleanly crafted as well as nicely designed. I am building new (stainless steel) spokes and (700C aluminum) rims on the high-flange Lambert hubs shown, because I think high-flange hubs and ornate lugwork go together as a 1960s / early 1970s thing. I may put my oldest Brooks Pro on the Carlton and move the Swallow to the newest Capo Sieger, which is a bare frameset plus brakes.
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Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
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Old 05-30-21, 02:35 PM
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Pulled the fork today and had a go at realigning it with the centerline of the head tube, wouldn't budge. I'm beginning to wonder if it was built so that the trailing edge of the blade was parallel to the head tube.......... Mine lines up just like this Carlton Catalina.




Also scraped away some of the multiple layers of white paint and found traces of the copper color on the bike pictured above. Why cover that with refrigerator white?! I love that color! It's going back to the original color or as close as I can get.
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Old 05-31-21, 02:23 PM
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OK, long story short..... thanks to over confidence on my part Carlton needs a new fork. That is all.
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Old 05-31-21, 03:37 PM
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Is it heresy?

New fork located and on it's way. Not an exact match, doesn't have the signature Raleigh crown but it's full chrome and the fork ends are much nicer than on the original. Once it's painted and decals applied it will look fine and it's not like I'm doing a concors restoration.

NOW......... for the "heresy" part. As you've probably seen I acquired another parts pike this week. A Volkscycle Mark XV which I believe is a late 70's bike. It has full Shimano 600 Arabesque components, which besides the low price is the only reason I bought it since #1 it is an entry level HiTen frameset and #2 even if it wasn't it has severe front end damage. My original plan was for the Arabesque to go on something else but I was sitting here going over component options for Carlton. Although I initially wanted to keep Carlton mostly 60's the idea of putting the Arabesque on it struck me and appealed to me so maybe I'll go late 70's period correct instead LOL....... I'll keep the original stem and bars, paint it the original Met. Copper, put reproduction decals on it and spit shine the Arabesque before installing it. It's all in very good condition with only slight wear and some garage grunge but no signs of corrosion, it should polish up very nicely. It even has "Dura Ace" cable guides on the top tube. I've already talked to my painter, he's ready to go whenever I give him the word, I just need to find a paint code for the paint or something that is a close match.

Once the fork is here I'll patch Carlton together to ride it a bit then tear it down and strip the frame for paint.

The $40 organ donor:
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Old 05-31-21, 06:01 PM
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I'll bet those are better parts than came on the bike originally. I have zero problems with a resto mod. The bottom line is (a) the bike has to work for your needs and (b) there is something to be said for recyling what you have as opposed to buying more old stuff. Occassionally I get a bike in the door that is pretty much all original and then--if it's a good bike--I won't touch it. Otherwise, I'm not generally a stickler for 100% original.
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Old 06-01-21, 04:53 AM
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Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
I'll bet those are better parts than came on the bike originally.
You proably win that bet LOL. Not sure what was on it originally but as found it is wearing a possibly unbroken Simplex Prestige FD, a Suntour 7 RD IIRC that doesn't move very well, Suntour barcons (what I initially bought it for ) and the original Weinmann center pull brakes and levers. My original plan was Campy NR. That will probably end up on my Gitane TdF frameset now. Or not.
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Old 06-01-21, 06:38 AM
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Norman Sheil's Carleton Track Bike 1960

Very special one from my collection. Original Brooks saddle, Airlite hubs, Campagnolo chainset, Cinelli bars and stem
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Old 06-01-21, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Murray Missile View Post
New fork located and on it's way. Not an exact match, doesn't have the signature Raleigh crown but it's full chrome and the fork ends are much nicer than on the original. Once it's painted and decals applied it will look fine and it's not like I'm doing a concors restoration.

NOW......... for the "heresy" part. As you've probably seen I acquired another parts pike this week. A Volkscycle Mark XV which I believe is a late 70's bike. It has full Shimano 600 Arabesque components, which besides the low price is the only reason I bought it since #1 it is an entry level HiTen frameset and #2 even if it wasn't it has severe front end damage. My original plan was for the Arabesque to go on something else but I was sitting here going over component options for Carlton. Although I initially wanted to keep Carlton mostly 60's the idea of putting the Arabesque on it struck me and appealed to me so maybe I'll go late 70's period correct instead LOL....... I'll keep the original stem and bars, paint it the original Met. Copper, put reproduction decals on it and spit shine the Arabesque before installing it. It's all in very good condition with only slight wear and some garage grunge but no signs of corrosion, it should polish up very nicely. It even has "Dura Ace" cable guides on the top tube. I've already talked to my painter, he's ready to go whenever I give him the word, I just need to find a paint code for the paint or something that is a close match.

Once the fork is here I'll patch Carlton together to ride it a bit then tear it down and strip the frame for paint.

The $40 organ donor:
I give a to the Arabesque.

The Dura Ace cable guide... not so much.
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Old 06-01-21, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Dolanarc1 View Post
Very special one from my collection. Original Brooks saddle, Airlite hubs, Campagnolo chainset, Cinelli bars and stem
Wow, just wow. There got to be some good story with this track bicycle. Please tell.
Update: perhaps it needs it’s own thread if it doesn’t already have one.
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