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Find of a lifetime?!?! I could REALLY use help from the experts

Old 05-03-21, 07:01 PM
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Find of a lifetime?!?! I could REALLY use help from the experts

Let me start with a picture.



Some facts:
- repaint, powder coated. Original finish was blue as well (per previous owner).
- some components are definitely added at a later time.
- serial number: due to thick coat of paint very hard to say for sure, but I think Ď1487í.
- left seat stay is dented a bit, but it sure rides nice.
- crank arms include ďSchwinnĒ and ďParamountĒ.
- pedals are Atom

The previous owner thought it to be a 1960s bike, built by Oscar Wastyn.

I know it was discussed by the CR group. And they determined it to be a late 1930s / early 1940s Schwinn Circuit. Correction: I meant to say Superior.

I have more info but let me first post some more pictures.









Additional pictures

I will follow up with the other components that were part of it In a follow up post.

Any help would be appreciated.
Cheers,
Bernard

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Old 05-03-21, 07:30 PM
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@b dub

Just plain cool as heck is all I can say, I know a little about Paramount's but almost nothing about Circuits this old.

Interesting lugless, cranks are a huge plus, ball end stays are unusual but a known style, funny they were later on all the lower, lugless electro forged frames.

You one lucky lad.

So Superior now?

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Old 05-03-21, 07:34 PM
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Looks like a Superior, does the serial stert with a B. I don't think they used the name Circuit back then and the World Racer shows a forward facing read droup out
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Old 05-03-21, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by trainman999 View Post
Looks like a Superior, does the serial stert with a B. I don't think they used the name Circuit back then and the World Racer shows a forward facing read droup out
i wonder what to do with the powder coat finish. Have it removed?
I could for now remove the bottom coating only to reveal the serial number. If there ever were to be a time for a re-repaint this would be it.
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Old 05-03-21, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by merziac View Post
@b dub

Just plain cool as heck is all I can say, I know a little about Paramount's but almost nothing about Circuits this old.

Interesting lugless, cranks are a huge plus, ball end stays are unusual but a known style, funny they were later on all the lower, lugless electro forged frames.

You one lucky lad.

So Superior now?
Thank you. Yeah Iíve been floating on a cloud the last 24 hours. But I know there is a fair chance someone will chime in to burst my bubble😜
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Old 05-03-21, 08:08 PM
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And wait until you read the background story of the seller. We had a lovely chat yesterday morning when I picked up the bicycle.

Of course I had to ask about itís history and he had plenty of it, and more...

Iíll post it when I have time in a few days.

I recommend to check out the Oscar Wastyn Cycles site.

The museum tab is stunning. Great comparison material with my frame. Iím hoping to stop by the store with my bike.
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Old 05-03-21, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by b dub View Post
i wonder what to do with the powder coat finish. Have it removed?
I could for now remove the bottom coating only to reveal the serial number. If there ever were to be a time for a re-repaint this would be it.
Acetone and MEK (latter is nasty, wear lug protection) will soften and remove in smaller areas. For larger areas, aircraft striper will do but may take up to 30min to act.
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Old 05-03-21, 08:11 PM
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.
...is there some reason to distrust the conclusion reached over on the CR group site ?
The fork looks relatively distinctive. I know little or nothing about Schwinn's from that era.


I would not remove the PC, it is a pain to accomplish. You can paint right over it with thorough roughing of the surface and a good 2 part urethane primer, then go with whatever color and decals you want, with a clear urethane top over that. Works out OK, I've done it once on a bicycle here and have noticed no problems thus far.
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Old 05-03-21, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
.
...is there some reason to distrust the conclusion reached over on the CR group site ?
The fork looks relatively distinctive. I know little or nothing about Schwinn's from that era.
No distrust at all. To the contrary. It just doesnít line up with the sellers story.
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Old 05-03-21, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by b dub View Post
Thank you. Yeah Iíve been floating on a cloud the last 24 hours. But I know there is a fair chance someone will chime in to burst my bubble😜
I think as long as you didn't bet the farm on it you will be fine, like I said, the crank and BB if original and /or way back period, seat clamp, headset, SP, and?

Even if none of that is original, its old enough to really matter anyway, say its 20 years younger than the frame and the frame is truly 30's or 40's, still a huge win IMO.

Even being way small for me, I would have gone very deep on this, foolishly deep very likely. Value like beauty is in the eye of the beholder, something like this has nothing to do with resale to me, if you want it, you better step up, you may never get another chance and you will be kicking yourself for a very long time as that plays out.

Many here thought I was silly for getting my 58 Paramount that was advertised for $1300 I think. I couldn't get it done fast enough, a $2k ask may have slowed me down a bit but probably not much. and I ended up getting it for less anyway.

Birth year bike, very original, fantastic condition, never gonna see another, BUY, BUY, BUY, do it now!

I think you probably did just fine, congratulations!
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Old 05-03-21, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
.
I would not remove the PC, it is a pain to accomplish. You can paint right over it with thorough roughing of the surface and a good 2 part urethane primer, then go with whatever color and decals you want, with a clear urethane top over that. Works out OK, I've done it once on a bicycle here and have noticed no problems thus far.
The PC is way thick and hides some of itís features. Any other frame and I would agree. But this one I feel requires a special approach.
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Old 05-03-21, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by b dub View Post
The PC is way thick and hides some of itís features. Any other frame and I would agree. But this one I feel requires a special approach.

...which features are hidden ? Of course, from here, I cannot see them, but it does appear to be a pretty straightforward frame assembly, with lugless fillet brazing a the joints, and there doesn't appear to be much detail in the fork crown or the rear dropouts. Again, I'm tellling you this as a favor, removing PC from an entire frame and fork like that is probably better accomplished by someone with a media blast operation.

The strippers that will work are relatively high in toxicity, and in my own life, I kind of draw the line somewhere before those. But I'm happy you are happy with it.
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Old 05-03-21, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
...which features are hidden ? Of course, from here, I cannot see them, but it does appear to be a pretty straightforward frame assembly, with lugless fillet brazing a the joints, and there doesn't appear to be much detail in the fork crown or the rear dropouts. Again, I'm tellling you this as a favor, removing PC from an entire frame and fork like that is probably better accomplished by someone with a media blast operation.

The strippers that will work are relatively high in toxicity, and in my own life, I kind of draw the line somewhere before those. But I'm happy you are happy with it.
Itís all good and thank you. I certainly am not in a rush to do anything.
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Old 05-03-21, 09:39 PM
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The best way to get PC off is to burn it off. It's plastic and melts very easily.
Chemical removal in a industrial bath used for preparing aircraft components isn't very straight forward and the PC is surprisingly resilient and patches refuse to move all over the place.
Softening it with a powerful solvent and painting over it works but seems to defeat the purpose of restoration and is not recognized as a acceptable practice for a host of environmental health reasons.
Scrapping/sanding is brutal and very very time consuming and patchy.
I imagine it was sand-blasted prior to the PC being applied so underneath will be already stripped. Sandblasting removes metal so once is more than any frame should endure.
Burning with a soldering blow-torch (like house-painters used to do) is very straight-forward and highly effective. Start with the forks.
The moral of the tale - don't PC bicycles if you want to later change them.
Good luck.
Just a personal observation - removing the PC will probably save the frame's life. PC hides rust that creeps under the layer of PC unnoticed where it can really eat the metal away until it's too late. Especially so if the frame had a lot of rust beforehand. Perhaps not in this case but who'd PC a pristine vintage frame?

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Old 05-03-21, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Johno59 View Post
The best way to get PC off is to burn it off. It's plastic and melts very easily.
Chemical removal in a industrial bath used for preparing aircraft components isn't very straight forward and the PC is surprisingly resilient and patches refuse to move all over the place.
Softening it with a powerful solvent and painting over it works but seems to defeat the purpose of restoration and is not recognized as a acceptable practice for a host of environmental health reasons.
Scrapping/sanding is brutal and very very time consuming and patchy.
I imagine it was sand-blasted prior to the PC being applied so underneath will be already stripped. Sandblasting removes metal so once is more than any frame should endure.
Burning with a soldering blow-torch (like house-painters used to do) is very straight-forward and highly effective. Start with the forks.
The moral of the tale - don't PC bicycles if you want to later change them.
Good luck.
Interesting. This is a new one for me.
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Old 05-03-21, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
...is there some reason to distrust the conclusion reached over on the CR group site ?
Yes. All the details match up perfectly to a Superior of the era, and Schwinn didn't make a Circuit back then.

There's nothing here that looks remotely like a Wastyn. It's a fillet-brazed Schwinn frame, complete with that peaked fork crown shared by a few other models from that period.

-Kurt
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Old 05-03-21, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
Yes. All the details match up perfectly to a Superior of the era, and Schwinn didn't make a Circuit back then.

There's nothing here that looks remotely like a Wastyn. It's a fillet-braze Schwinn frame of the era, complete with that peaked fork crown shared by a few other models from that era.

-Kurt
HOLD ON, I screwed up. Big brain fart. I meant to type Schwinn Superior, not Circuit.

So sorry. I only just now realized my mistake. I have my reasons but I wonít bore you with that.

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Old 05-04-21, 05:33 AM
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May the Fourth be with you, b dub ! I agree about it being a genuine Superior. They seem to be a rare model in the late '30s-'50s. Similar to the Paramount and New World they could come in several different "falvors." Track, Single Speed, or Three Speed. The rear facing dropouts look more like Paramount ones than New World ones. Below are a couple of pictures of my '39 or '40 New World dropouts for your comparison.





What sized wheels does it have? If interested, I have a Sturmey Archer 3 speed wheel set from a Lady's Superior from the late '40s early '50s.
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Old 05-04-21, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by b dub View Post
snip . .
- crank arms include “Schwinn” and “Paramount”.
- pedals are Atom

The previous owner thought it to be a 1960s bike, built by Oscar Wastyn.

I know it was discussed by the CR group. And they determined it to be a late 1930s / early 1940s Schwinn Circuit. Correction: I meant to say Superior.



I will follow up with the other components that were part of it In a follow up post.

Any help would be appreciated.
Cheers,
Bernard
Great bike. I had a question about the pedals. Those are atom square cage pedals, right? Obviously there is no way to know if they are original to the bike or not. Do you know if they were made in the 50s though? Curious as I have a set that I'll likely use on a '58 Claud Butler I'm rebuilding but I'm not certain of the date. Velobase lists the pedals without dates.

VeloBase.com - Component: Atom (square cage)

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Old 05-04-21, 06:16 AM
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Superior

For comparison my faded rusty Schwinn Superior which I believe is a 1939.






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Old 05-04-21, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by schwinnderella View Post
For comparison my faded rusty Schwinn Superior which I believe is a 1939.






My gosh, this is it. Found a match. This really confirmed it is a Schwinn Superior.

Is the serial number on your bike located on the bottom bracket or the drop-out?
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Old 05-04-21, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
Great bike. I had a question about the pedals. Those are atom square cage pedals, right? Obviously there is no way to know if they are original to the bike or not. Do you know if they were made in the 50s though? Curious as I have a set that I'll likely use on a '58 Claud Butler I'm rebuilding but I'm not certain of the date. Velobase lists the pedals without dates.

VeloBase.com - Component: Atom (square cage)

They are indeed. The seller confirmed that it used to include cages and straps. Several of the components are from a later time like the wheel set but not sure when
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Old 05-04-21, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by b dub View Post
My gosh, this is it. Found a match. This really confirmed it is a Schwinn Superior.

Is the serial number on your bike located on the bottom bracket or the drop-out?

On the bottom bracket.
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Old 05-04-21, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
Great bike. I had a question about the pedals. Those are atom square cage pedals, right? Obviously there is no way to know if they are original to the bike or not. Do you know if they were made in the 50s though? Curious as I have a set that I'll likely use on a '58 Claud Butler I'm rebuilding but I'm not certain of the date. Velobase lists the pedals without dates.

VeloBase.com - Component: Atom (square cage)

those were made for a long time.
I bought a new set in the late 1960ís
for my Sting-Ray!
so they came 1/2Ē threading too, thanks to Schwinn.
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Old 05-04-21, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by schwinnderella View Post
For comparison my faded rusty Schwinn Superior which I believe is a 1939.






fun bike. I need to locate the parts and finish my New World with the single freewheel and cottered cranks. Scavenger seller sold off the saddle, seat-post and bars before I got there.
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