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Identify this (Carlton?) frame

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Identify this (Carlton?) frame

Old 05-20-21, 01:35 PM
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wasianamerican
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Identify this (Carlton?) frame

Hi c&v, I need another project bike like I need a hole in the head but this one is keeping me up at night. It's a complete bike that has been repainted and the headbadge removed. No idea if the parts are original, but looking at the stem (also can't identify) I would guess not. The seller says it's a Raleigh.
The brazed-on rear cable bridge and the wrapover seat stays make me wonder if this is a Carlton product? My first guess was a Grand Prix, but I haven't seen one yet with lugs that long and pointed. I also have no idea if the fork is original but my 1975 Gran Sport frame has a fully chromed 531 fork different from the catalog, so anything is possible.
I don't expect this to be a hidden gem, but I recently wrecked my commuter and this might be a good replacement. If anything, trying to identify it has been a fun distraction. Anything I can ask the seller?


Last edited by wasianamerican; 05-20-21 at 01:36 PM. Reason: year
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Old 05-20-21, 02:03 PM
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rando_couche
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Judging from the shape of the rear dropouts and headlugs, I'm going to say early 70's Nishiki Semi-Pro.
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Old 05-20-21, 02:10 PM
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Wow, it sure looks like it. I guess the cable bridge does have the adjuster mounted rather than the hole drilled for a barrel adjuster to thread in.
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Old 05-20-21, 02:14 PM
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The rear brake-cable hanger says Dawes to me, fits with wrapover stays, but the dropouts look too simple.
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Old 05-20-21, 02:16 PM
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i was thinking Nishiki Kokusai...which is the same thing...name varied with year

headset is Tange MA60

expect plain guage chromo tubing

companion of knife & spoon a definite replacement

that's a Kawamura product you have there - done for Howie Cohen

-----

Last edited by juvela; 05-20-21 at 02:18 PM. Reason: punctuation
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Old 05-20-21, 02:59 PM
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I'll bet a Nishiki semi pro would make a fine commuter. From what I've seen, this bike should have ample clearance for large volume tires and fenders.

Last edited by bikemig; 05-20-21 at 03:02 PM.
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Old 05-20-21, 04:23 PM
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T-Mar probably could nail down the production year with the serial number.
The headbadge holes I bet line up with Nishiki.
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Old 05-20-21, 07:03 PM
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Didn't those Nishiki's use a Schwinn-sized stem as well as a further identifier.
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Old 05-21-21, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Dylansbob View Post
Didn't those Nishiki's use a Schwinn-sized stem as well as a further identifier.
Some did, this is the version with a 21.15mm (I think?) quill, also measured as .833" (again , I think) which was used on many American makes besides Schwinn as well as many more Asian makes besides Nishiki, but MOSTly seen on BMX bikes. Then they lost out as JIS/ISO standards adopted the far more common 22.2 (or 7/8") quill.

The Kokusai model tracks to the later International, AFAIK, and these usually have the very thin tapered stay caps rather than the wrap-over (which is more of a "Semi-Pro feature"), although I do not have the WCC catalogs memorized so YMMV.

Last edited by unworthy1; 05-21-21 at 10:38 AM.
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Old 05-21-21, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
I'll bet a Nishiki semi pro would make a fine commuter. From what I've seen, this bike should have ample clearance for large volume tires and fenders.
IIRC they came with 27" x 1-1/4" as stock rollers and still had room!
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Old 05-21-21, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by unworthy1 View Post
IIRC they came with 27" x 1-1/4" as stock rollers and still had room!

-----

gotta fit "them thar guards"


-----
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Old 05-22-21, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by juvela View Post
-----

i was thinking Nishiki Kokusai...which is the same thing...name varied with year

headset is Tange MA60

expect plain guage chromo tubing

companion of knife & spoon a definite replacement

that's a Kawamura product you have there - done for Howie Cohen

-----
Nishiki Semi-Pro = Competition; double-butted Ishiwata CrMo
Nishiki Kokusai = International; plain gauge Ishiwata CrMo

My 1971 Semi-Pro had elaborate head lugs and downtube shift levers; by the 1972 model year they had switched to simpler lugs and barcons and raised the price from $170 to $190

What is your S/N? Mine was KS78091.

Wraparound seat stays and simple stamped rear dropouts do suggest Nishiki.
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Old 05-23-21, 01:06 PM
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I'm pretty curious now, I'll ask the seller for a serial if they can find it.
Any thoughts on the stem? It looks somewhat like a Pivo or Carnielli, but not quite. Would a french stem be small enough to get into a .833 steerer? On paper no, but perhaps sloppy tolerances...
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Old 05-23-21, 08:12 PM
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French stem is nominally 22.0 mm, or 0.866". I'd say that's a "no go".
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Old 05-23-21, 08:41 PM
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Seller says serial is KS131898W, I'll go brush up on my serial numbers in the c&v stickied thread and report back
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Old 05-28-21, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by wasianamerican View Post
Seller says serial is KS131898W, I'll go brush up on my serial numbers in the c&v stickied thread and report back
A Nishiki Semi-Pro circa 1972, based on the serial number.



Last edited by Hummer; 05-28-21 at 09:54 AM. Reason: clarification
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