Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

What's worst than a seized seatpost?

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

What's worst than a seized seatpost?

Old 06-11-21, 05:02 PM
  #1  
jonny7 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 365

Bikes: 1994 Cadex CFR3, 2006 Scott CR1 SL, Rossin x 2, Bertrand GB3000, Bertrand GB 2000, Gurus,

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 124 Post(s)
Liked 60 Times in 46 Posts
What's worst than a seized seatpost?

Having your LBS to work on it and ...


Last edited by jonny7; 06-11-21 at 11:09 PM.
jonny7 is offline  
Old 06-11-21, 05:06 PM
  #2  
CroMo Mike 
All Campy All The Time
 
CroMo Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 1,358

Bikes: Listed in my signature.

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 143 Post(s)
Liked 62 Times in 41 Posts
Did they charge you to do that?
__________________
My C&V Bikes:
1972 Bottecchia Professional, 1972 Legnano Olympiade Record, 1982 Colnago Super,
1987 Bottecchia Team C-Record, 1988 Pinarello Montello, 1995 Bianchi Campione d'Italia,
1995 DeBernardi Thron Super Record






CroMo Mike is offline  
Old 06-11-21, 05:09 PM
  #3  
Wilbur76
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: California
Posts: 204

Bikes: 2020 Lynskey GR300, 1987 Diamondback Ascent, 1991 Skykomish Marble Point, 1994 Specialized Stumpjumper FSR, 1996 Specialized Stumpjumper M2 FS, 1992 GT Karakoram

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked 199 Times in 76 Posts
Originally Posted by jonny7 View Post
Having your LBS to work on it and ...

Aw hell that sucks. Did they charge you?
Wilbur76 is offline  
Old 06-11-21, 05:24 PM
  #4  
jonny7 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 365

Bikes: 1994 Cadex CFR3, 2006 Scott CR1 SL, Rossin x 2, Bertrand GB3000, Bertrand GB 2000, Gurus,

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 124 Post(s)
Liked 60 Times in 46 Posts
No they didn't! Great people actually. Just sucks for the frame..
jonny7 is offline  
Old 06-11-21, 05:25 PM
  #5  
jdawginsc 
Edumacator
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Goose Creek, SC
Posts: 4,032

Bikes: '87 Crestdale, '87 Basso Gap, '92 Rossin Performance EL-OS, 1990 VanTuyl, 1980s Losa, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 1987 PX10, etc...

Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1277 Post(s)
Liked 1,147 Times in 807 Posts
Wow. That is truly stink-eriffic
__________________
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1980s Vanni Losa Cassani thingy, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981? Faggin, Cannondale M500, etc...Need to do an N -1...



jdawginsc is offline  
Old 06-11-21, 05:37 PM
  #6  
DorkDisk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Kips Bay, NY
Posts: 2,060

Bikes: Ritchey Swiss Cross | Teesdale Kona Hot | Haro Extreme | Specialized Stumpjumper Comp | Cannondale F1000 | Shogun 1000 | Cannondale M500 | Norco Charger | Marin Muirwoods 29er | Shogun Kaze | Breezer Lightning

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 523 Post(s)
Liked 765 Times in 404 Posts
Sometimes there are no winners
DorkDisk is offline  
Old 06-11-21, 05:42 PM
  #7  
Dylansbob 
2k miles from the midwest
 
Dylansbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Washington
Posts: 1,673

Bikes: ~'75 Colin Laing, '80s Schwinn SuperSport 650b, ex-Backroads ti project...

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Liked 636 Times in 310 Posts
What was the frame?
Dylansbob is online now  
Old 06-11-21, 06:03 PM
  #8  
jonny7 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 365

Bikes: 1994 Cadex CFR3, 2006 Scott CR1 SL, Rossin x 2, Bertrand GB3000, Bertrand GB 2000, Gurus,

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 124 Post(s)
Liked 60 Times in 46 Posts
Originally Posted by Dylansbob View Post
What was the frame?
At least it wasn't one of my "great" CV bike. A Peugeot Triathlon, Canadian model I believe. Cool burgundy frame with a chrome fork. 105SC equipped. A sweet ride but surely not a unicorn.
jonny7 is offline  
Old 06-11-21, 10:05 PM
  #9  
madpogue 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Madison, WI USA
Posts: 5,665
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1863 Post(s)
Liked 953 Times in 716 Posts
Photo is from an outside site associated with spy-gle, that probably requires an account / login. Doesn't show up from an anonymous device/browser. Such issues go away when one uses the BF-hosted gallery system
madpogue is offline  
Old 06-11-21, 10:16 PM
  #10  
zandoval 
Senior Member
 
zandoval's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bastrop Texas
Posts: 2,999

Bikes: Univega, Peu P6, Peu PR-10, Ted Williams, Peu UO-8, Peu UO-18 Mixte, Peu Dolomites

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 409 Post(s)
Liked 579 Times in 396 Posts
Rats
__________________
No matter where your at... There you are... Δf:=f(1/2)-f(-1/2)
zandoval is offline  
Old 06-11-21, 10:37 PM
  #11  
scarlson 
Senior Member
 
scarlson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Medford MA
Posts: 1,768

Bikes: Ron Cooper touring, 1959 Jack Taylor 650b ladyback touring tandem, Vitus 979, Joe Bell painted Claud Butler Dalesman, Colin Laing curved tube tandem, heavily-Dilberted 1982 Trek 6xx, René Herse tandem

Mentioned: 63 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 810 Post(s)
Liked 1,065 Times in 573 Posts
Oh man, they must have really done a number on it. Those Canada Pugs are usually tough as nails!
__________________
Owner & co-founder, Cycles René Hubris. Unfortunately attaching questionable braze-ons to perfectly good frames since about 2015. With style.
scarlson is offline  
Old 06-11-21, 10:53 PM
  #12  
machinist42
mycocyclist
 
machinist42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Monkey Junction, Wilmington, NC
Posts: 1,914

Bikes: 1964 Schwinn Paramount P-13 DeLuxe, 1964 Schwinn Sport Super Sport, 1972 Falcon San Remo, 1974 Maserati MT-1, 1974 Raleigh International, 1984 Lotus Odyssey, 198? Rossin Ghibli, 1990 LeMond Le Vanquer (sic), 1991 Specialized Allez Transition Pro, +

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 773 Post(s)
Liked 451 Times in 274 Posts
Perhaps Mercifully...

...I see nothing.




(My answer was going to be "...a stuck seatpost, stem, and bottom bracket." (Each of which I managed to free over a two week period.) Haste makes waste.)
machinist42 is offline  
Old 06-11-21, 11:10 PM
  #13  
jonny7 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 365

Bikes: 1994 Cadex CFR3, 2006 Scott CR1 SL, Rossin x 2, Bertrand GB3000, Bertrand GB 2000, Gurus,

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 124 Post(s)
Liked 60 Times in 46 Posts
Here. Uploaded the picture correctly.
jonny7 is offline  
Likes For jonny7:
Old 06-12-21, 12:41 AM
  #14  
madpogue 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Madison, WI USA
Posts: 5,665
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1863 Post(s)
Liked 953 Times in 716 Posts
OUCH! That won't buff out.
madpogue is offline  
Old 06-12-21, 01:33 AM
  #15  
Johno59
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Cambridge UK
Posts: 775

Bikes: 1903 24 spd Sunbeam, 1927 Humber, 3 1930 Raleighs, 2 1940s Sunbeams, 2 1940s Raleighs, Rudge, 1950s Robin Hood, 1958 Claud Butler, 2 1973 Colnago Supers, Eddie Merckx, 2 1980 Holdsworth, EG Bates funny TT bike, another 6 or so 1990s bikes

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 308 Post(s)
Liked 278 Times in 151 Posts
The reason you don't use a gas torch to burn out the post or expand the seat tube is you want to preserve the paint If you're going to use enough force to break the frame you obviously don't care about the paint work. So what gives? A wet towel will restrict paint damage down to six inches from the post clamp no matter how much you cook it.
Johno59 is offline  
Old 06-12-21, 05:39 AM
  #16  
CroMo Mike 
All Campy All The Time
 
CroMo Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 1,358

Bikes: Listed in my signature.

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 143 Post(s)
Liked 62 Times in 41 Posts
It really wasn't much of a joint anyway. Looks like it was just butted and brazed, with no lug and very little filler material. I'd forgive the shop for the poor outcome. On the other hand, it would be easy to rebraze it.
__________________
My C&V Bikes:
1972 Bottecchia Professional, 1972 Legnano Olympiade Record, 1982 Colnago Super,
1987 Bottecchia Team C-Record, 1988 Pinarello Montello, 1995 Bianchi Campione d'Italia,
1995 DeBernardi Thron Super Record






CroMo Mike is offline  
Old 06-12-21, 06:03 AM
  #17  
jdawginsc 
Edumacator
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Goose Creek, SC
Posts: 4,032

Bikes: '87 Crestdale, '87 Basso Gap, '92 Rossin Performance EL-OS, 1990 VanTuyl, 1980s Losa, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 1987 PX10, etc...

Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1277 Post(s)
Liked 1,147 Times in 807 Posts
Is that one of those internally "inexternal" brazed guys? Or just a fillet braze?
__________________
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1980s Vanni Losa Cassani thingy, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981? Faggin, Cannondale M500, etc...Need to do an N -1...



jdawginsc is offline  
Old 06-12-21, 06:15 AM
  #18  
T-Mar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 22,554
Mentioned: 600 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4415 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2,400 Times in 1,558 Posts
Originally Posted by CroMo Mike View Post
It really wasn't much of a joint anyway. Looks like it was just butted and brazed, with no lug and very little filler material. I'd forgive the shop for the poor outcome. On the other hand, it would be easy to rebraze it.
Those are internally brazed frames. The vast majority of the fillet forms on the inside of the tube, around 80 to 90%. A small fillet forms on the outside via capillary action. It is arguably superior to a lug. A lug adds weight and allows manufacturers to cut costs by not mitring the tubes. Consequently the only thing holding the tubes together is the lug itself. Also, you can't judge the quality of the braze, as it is hidden by the lug. Internal brazing is lighter, because it eliminates the lug. Also, it requires the tubes to be mitred, so they are in close contact with each other. Finally, the brazed joint can be inspected. The characteristics of the outside fillet, allow you to gauge the quality of the inside fillet. While rarely mentioned this ability to inspect joint is the greatest advantage of internal brazing.

Last edited by T-Mar; 06-12-21 at 06:23 AM. Reason: added image
T-Mar is offline  
Old 06-12-21, 06:32 AM
  #19  
oneclick 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,817
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 680 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 699 Times in 426 Posts
Originally Posted by CroMo Mike View Post
It really wasn't much of a joint anyway. Looks like it was just butted and brazed, with no lug and very little filler material. I'd forgive the shop for the poor outcome. On the other hand, it would be easy to rebraze it.
I don't know (meaning have not seen any numbers) but Peugeot claimed their process made joints as strong as/stronger than lugged ones, and there is a good reason why they could do so.

For most frames the main usefulness of lugged construction is economy. The tubes can be cut with no or little regard to angle and mitres, and the lug takes (some/most/all) of the actual stress at the joint - the metal there doesn't have the thickness of lug+tube,

Brazing works because the bronze alloy forms a solid solution with the surface of the base metal. Within limits, the closer the fit, the stronger the bond. Lugs are often a fairly sloppy fit, sometimes deliberately so.

The quality of brazed joints is undeniably variable, especially considering the market at which Peugeot was aiming.

So because they had the resources and production capability to make accurately mitred joints with tubing to their own specs they had something to work with.
oneclick is offline  
Old 06-12-21, 06:34 AM
  #20  
jdawginsc 
Edumacator
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Goose Creek, SC
Posts: 4,032

Bikes: '87 Crestdale, '87 Basso Gap, '92 Rossin Performance EL-OS, 1990 VanTuyl, 1980s Losa, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 1987 PX10, etc...

Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1277 Post(s)
Liked 1,147 Times in 807 Posts
So that could be a reasonably easy fix without the lug to worry about?
__________________
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1980s Vanni Losa Cassani thingy, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981? Faggin, Cannondale M500, etc...Need to do an N -1...



jdawginsc is offline  
Old 06-12-21, 07:03 AM
  #21  
scarlson 
Senior Member
 
scarlson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Medford MA
Posts: 1,768

Bikes: Ron Cooper touring, 1959 Jack Taylor 650b ladyback touring tandem, Vitus 979, Joe Bell painted Claud Butler Dalesman, Colin Laing curved tube tandem, heavily-Dilberted 1982 Trek 6xx, René Herse tandem

Mentioned: 63 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 810 Post(s)
Liked 1,065 Times in 573 Posts
I dunno - those stays look tig welded. Canada-made Pugs I've seen are from after the "internally brazed" era, and are tigged. But we can't see an intact joint on the bike to know for sure.

That said, based on the one picture and a small amount of optimism that the rest of the joint is cracked similarly, any framebuilder or really anyone competent with a torch could make quick work of fillet brazing that back together.
__________________
Owner & co-founder, Cycles René Hubris. Unfortunately attaching questionable braze-ons to perfectly good frames since about 2015. With style.
scarlson is offline  
Old 06-12-21, 07:34 AM
  #22  
oneclick 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,817
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 680 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 699 Times in 426 Posts
Originally Posted by jdawginsc View Post
So that could be a reasonably easy fix without the lug to worry about?
Is the post out?
oneclick is offline  
Old 06-12-21, 12:29 PM
  #23  
jonny7 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 365

Bikes: 1994 Cadex CFR3, 2006 Scott CR1 SL, Rossin x 2, Bertrand GB3000, Bertrand GB 2000, Gurus,

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 124 Post(s)
Liked 60 Times in 46 Posts
Originally Posted by oneclick View Post
Is the post out?
still in there ..!
jonny7 is offline  
Old 06-12-21, 12:52 PM
  #24  
jonny7 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 365

Bikes: 1994 Cadex CFR3, 2006 Scott CR1 SL, Rossin x 2, Bertrand GB3000, Bertrand GB 2000, Gurus,

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 124 Post(s)
Liked 60 Times in 46 Posts
How would one determine the nature of the joint? And the feasibility of the reparation?




jonny7 is offline  
Old 06-12-21, 01:02 PM
  #25  
oneclick 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,817
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 680 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 699 Times in 426 Posts
Originally Posted by jonny7 View Post
How would one determine the nature of the joint?
Section it.
oneclick is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.