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Pinarello Montello component morphing

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Pinarello Montello component morphing

Old 07-28-21, 09:51 AM
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Pinarello Montello component morphing

In May 2014 the subject bike joined the developing stable, n+1.
1989 Pinarello Monetllo on Flickr

It was cleaned up and then ridden for several thousand miles.
P1020207 on Flickr

Really great ride and fit much better than the Colnago. However, here is an Italian bike with DA parts except the HS, post, stem and bars. I let this ride with the nagging thought of putting Campagnolo on it.
After an incident where the FD failed me on a ride, I decided to think more seriously about the change. The issue is the little plastic part on the FD that cracked and no longer functions as a resistance to the limit screw rotating. It is that thin part the screws appear to engage.
P1050188 on Flickr
So parts were acquired over time, turned out to be Chorus level. The situation was I had a Record hub for 8v, no block and unlaced. The other desire was to consider sew-ups. That changed when a set of Wheels MFG spacers for DA block showed up in our for sale site.
DA/WM blcok on Flickr
In the process of installing the spacers to the DA block, the axle bearings were lubed. Second issue showed up in damaged cone on the drive side. A search revealed they are unobtainium. Replacement DA hub or go with building the Record was the first thought. Reassembling the hub was what was done as a temporary measure.

The morphed items were the brake calipers to Monoplanar, with 8v Ergo replacing both DA brake levers and DT shifters, shifters to cable stops, RD and FD replaced and crankset with bb. New chain too. Still has the DA hubs front and back.
P1030663 on Flickr

The older Chorus, crankset was changed to the newer version that looks like the Record. Didn't care for the older esthetics (much like the DA).

The Campagnolo 8v rear block was acquired and a set of wheels with Campagnolo Strada aero rims donated the rim and spokes for the Record rear hub. The front wheel does not need to be addressed with the exception of it being radially laced. Still have not decided if and when that change will happen.
P1050189 on Flickr
P1050191 on Flickr

The DA block is 12, 13, 14, 15, 17, 19, 21, 23. Both cranks sets are 53/39. The Campagnolo rear block is 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19, 21, 23. I rarely used the 12 and it will not be missed. the 16 addition will be nice as it was a bit of a gap for me. The real issue is the 23 and my age. Even 23/39 is a bit steep for some of the hills I navigate around here in the shape I am in. Not a pleasant shape either.

The De Rosa is configured as a 10v with 11 on the top and 25 on the bottom. Hills are a slight bit easier, 11 and 12 are nearly useless......Hey it looks great!

So the idea of a triple started being considered. Not for the De Rosa but for the Pin. In the process of morphing the DA to Chorus, a couple of BB spindles were acquired of different lengths, along with a greater appreciation of matching spindles to the crank and chain line. So I think I have a BB for the triple. I also have a Racing T crankset now.
P1050192 on Flickr

Another biproduct of the DA/Chorus morphing was the acquisition of the wrong FD. Turns out it was a triple and would not clear the 53 tooth double. Just needed to move that big ring a bit further out from the centerline of the bike. So I have a triple FD, not a Racing T but a Record. See pic above

It got really serious this week as a medium cage Racing T RD is in the mail.

The rear wheel is laced up and almost ready to go. Need to adjust the dish, a story which is captured in another thread as are the issues of the crankset install and FD.

The unknown is the what the BB length should be with a 70mm shell, either 111 or 115, and will the FD work.

Oh and I will likely be overhauling the Ergo's. They don't perform as well as the 10v Ergos on the De Rosa. That leads to new bar tape too and maybe new RD cable.

Bottom line is the bike will likely serve me we well on hills with the 30/25. I also have a 9v block that might donate the 26t sprocket.

My intent is to document the morphing of the bike based on the frame set.
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Old 07-28-21, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by SJX426 View Post
I also have a 9v block that might donate the 26t sprocket.
The 9 speed sprocket won't fit on the 8 speed spline...well, without some modifications.
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Old 07-28-21, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by P!n View Post
The 9 speed sprocket won't fit on the 8 speed spline...well, without some modifications.
Yup, thanks, well aware. Branford cycles does a great job of identifying the differences.
Cassettes and Cogs Branford Bike
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Old 07-30-21, 04:34 PM
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The RD arrived. Based on DISRAELIGEARS brief description and no pictures, I believe this is a "RD00-RA309, from 2000, another 9-speed model with 'Racing T' written on a large black strip on the outer parallelogram plate with '9 Speed Campagnolo' written underneath." Not in bad shape with one scratch where they all have one.




I will need to get to work now \with only a chain length issue to work with. I may need to buy one and will likely get a KMC 9v in case I find a 9v hub to mount the rear 9v cassette.
Like that the B screw is on the cage!
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Old 08-02-21, 05:47 AM
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The RD is mounted and didn't need replacement cable, barely.
P1050200 on Flickr
P1050201 on Flickr

The FD was converted back to braze-on mount and mounted with existing cable
P1050202 on Flickr

After much confusion as a senior, trying to determine which spindle to use, knowing that the 111 was likely, the crankset was mounted. The confusion started assuming a 115 might be a good place to start. I looked for cups and bearings in the BB container and found none. So I though I might try the Phil Wood BB from the last build confusion, as it is adjustable. Then determined that since it measures about 113 and it was sunk fairly deep in the shell to get an acceptable chain line, I started looking for cups on the bay. Well prices are way out there with full BB a better option. Decided to start thinking of alternate cups. In some of the pictures you can see a number of cranksets on the peg board. There is a mixture of Shimano, Campagnolo and Suntour. I looked at a crankse that looked like a Suntour and took it down and found it is a Chorus first gen with a full BB attached with the 111 spindle. My excuse is that I had eye surgery last Friday and I can only see out of one eye at the moment. I should have trifocals but am too stubborn to do that so my vision isn't that good. You would think I would check out the crank arm profile to differentiate between the two. The DA crankset is obvious because of the crank bolt caps! With poor vision, they all look close to the same.
P1050211 on Flickr

I think the 111 is the right one.
P1050205 on Flickr

I checked with a straight edge to see if the middle ring was close. Close enough?
P1050208 on Flickr

So the only thing holding be back is the chain. I may splurge and try a Campagnolo chain. Reviews sound good, it is the price that is a road block.
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Old 08-02-21, 04:08 PM
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Ordered the Campagnolo Record 9 speed chain. Guess I didn't need it. Well I have a spare.
Used the old chain to see where the limitations were. Didn't find any.
P1050221 on Flickr
P1050217 on Flickr
P1050219 on Flickr
P1050220 on Flickr
P1050222 on Flickr

That about wraps it up! Ready for a test ride! Have to wait 2 weeks or until my eye heals.
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Old 08-03-21, 06:06 AM
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Took the risk and tried the shifting out over a couple of blocks. Works great and should do the job when I get out for a serious ride.
P1050224 on Flickr

Less cluttered view of the DT
P1050227 on Flickr
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Old 10-15-21, 01:31 PM
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The morphing is about to continue! This time it is 8V Shimano DA hub and sprockets with Wheels MFG spacers to Campagnolo Record hub modified with a TI freehub for 9V. (Bike Forums - View Single Post - 8-Speed Campagnolo Chorus Hub - dismantling) #50
This change was halted due to the resistance to paying a bunch of money for a 9V Ergo set. If anyone was following this thread, you know I ended up with an extra set of Ergos in 10V, or was that the De Rosa thread?. What was needed was the ring for 9V.
Last week I found a 9V Ergo with a broken housing on the bay for under $30. The purchase was with the assumption the 9V ring was ok.
The assembly showed up today with the ring in good condition. The springs and spring carrier are toast. Doesn't matter as I have those parts in the spare set. The brake lever is marked Record and carbon, the shifter paddle is shinny.



Here is the question, Do I need to use the shifter paddle gear with the conversion? The ring has 9 positions and the shifter gear 8, unless you count each side of the first and last tooth.
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Old 10-15-21, 04:01 PM
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Italians should have Campagnolo.

The Brooks has a better tilt adjustment in my view, with the flight, I would never be perched, I would always feel I was sliding forward, hard on my lower back and arms/shoulders.
Conversely, some have the nose up to the point it would be sending me to a urologist.
Fully understand on sit bone shape, but maybe you just need to find THAT saddle.
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Old 10-19-21, 07:31 AM
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Completed the rebuild of the right Ergo with both the toothed components swapped. The spring retainer in both were broken. Fortunately I had purchased a replacement and springs.


The rebuild went as expected with multiple assembly and disassembly until I was confident it was lubed and assembled correctly.
The Ergos are back in the box awaiting new hoods and the conversion/dishing of the rear wheel.
P1050433 on Flickr

Need to swap out free hub.
P1050435 on Flickr
P1050438 on Flickr
P1050439 on Flickr
P1050441 on Flickr

The dishing will also involve making sure there is space for the smallest sprocket without interference with the stays/DO.

Just for kicks, the broken RH body was super glued together.
P1050437 on Flickr

Left over parts besides the glued RH body there was a LH Body that is a bit ground up but usable.
P1050436 on Flickr
P1050434 on Flickr
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Old 10-21-21, 06:37 AM
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Reference Bike Forums - View Single Post - 8-Speed Campagnolo Chorus Hub - dismantling where I highjacked the thread to address adapting a 9v freehub to an 8v record hub. Sorry for the interruption @Dawes-man, my apologizes.
@gfk_velo was gracious enough to share his good memory of the challenges, which I took to heart.

A standard cassette ring of the correct size was purchased with much care as some sellers don't know there is a difference or they don't measure correctly. I lucked out with the correct one.

After mangling the O ring seal and removing it, the TI free hub provided by @El Heron was assembled on the hub and the wheel placed on the bike to check the clearance of the chain/stay I/f.


not much clearance to be comfortable.
Rummaging through the spare parts box produced a 1.5mm washer from other axle work. Installed and checked again.

Success, as I see it.

Next step is to install the Ergos
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Old 10-21-21, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by SJX426 View Post
Completed the rebuild of the right Ergo with both the toothed components swapped. The spring retainer in both were broken. Fortunately I had purchased a replacement and springs.


The rebuild went as expected with multiple assembly and disassembly until I was confident it was lubed and assembled correctly.
The Ergos are back in the box awaiting new hoods and the conversion/dishing of the rear wheel.
P1050433 on Flickr

Need to swap out free hub.
P1050435 on Flickr
P1050438 on Flickr
P1050439 on Flickr
P1050441 on Flickr

The dishing will also involve making sure there is space for the smallest sprocket without interference with the stays/DO.

Just for kicks, the broken RH body was super glued together.
P1050437 on Flickr

Left over parts besides the glued RH body there was a LH Body that is a bit ground up but usable.
P1050436 on Flickr
P1050434 on Flickr
RE: Just for kicks, the broken RH body was super glued together.
I would have used epoxy for the mend and possibly a thin over carbon like tape layer for additional strength.
Your work is very meticulous especially rebuilding a wheel for a radial pattern.
Nice work and posts !
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Old 10-21-21, 07:13 AM
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@joesch - Thanks for the comments. I did not plan on using the body. I just don't think I could trust it. If it broke, the results would be more than I am willing to accept.
I could soak it in water and let it fall apart and do what you suggested. Is it worth doing the repair and not spending $78 if the body is needed? 11 - Ergopower Shifter Body (Right) — Branford Bike
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Old 02-10-22, 03:17 PM
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More morphing. This time it is rings and a saddle.
Got a good deal on both.
NOS Racing T rings of 50/40/30 came in today.


The Brooks C13 was acquired a couple of months ago. Still haven't tried it out due to the cold weather.
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Old 02-11-22, 10:51 AM
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Applied glue to the rims and tires today. Suppose to wait 24 hours before applying a second application to the rim. Will do and mount.
Also inquired about replacement decals from Cyclomondo.
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Old 02-11-22, 11:00 AM
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Great Photo documentation makes the difference.
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Old 02-13-22, 11:51 AM
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@Thrasher36 Thanks. A picture is worth.... Better than my words!
Applied the tires and adjusted the handlebar today. Also paid for the decals from Cyclomondo.
I am thinking about black tape to go with the saddle, rims and cables. The decals will be black as original.
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Old 02-13-22, 12:20 PM
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Beautiful
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Old 02-22-22, 06:03 AM
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@Thrasher36 - Thanks! this bike doesn't get much admiration due, it think, to its Patina. It is a wonderful bike to ride and rivals with the De Rosa in ride quality.

Yesteday I decided that I should use the white tape. I may change to black as the white has been wrapped twice before and is starting to look a bit ragged.
Just a ride of 3 blocks indicates I need to investigate the wheels, specifically the rear. Something is going on where the coasting is a bit rough when I think it should be smoother. I hope it is not the tires.

So here is the update pic. Not much different than the previous one.


Tape wrap and bar adjusted.
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Old 02-22-22, 02:24 PM
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I know triples are controversial, but I like them. Nice build!
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Old 02-22-22, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by John E View Post
I know triples are controversial, but I like them. Nice build!
Thanks,
I get the whole double up front thing but at this point, I need a bike that will go low enough that I can get up a hill without walking with bike shoes and cleats. If I can get enough miles and get fit enough, I can switch bikes to get to the next level or shift to the next ring. The previous drive train will stay in the bin for the future. This one will stay with the range as a backup and occasional ride for the ride's sake. I also have a 50/40/30 I can replace on the front which is currently 52/42/30, in case I get really old and can still ride. The back end is 13-26 and may work out fine with the current ring set.
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Old 02-22-22, 03:21 PM
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TPL
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The front derailleur set screw ( photo #3 ) could quite easily be remedied ....

Get a plastic coated wire wrap twist tie from a loaf of bread ....strip the wire from inside the tie ....remove the screw from it's hole ....push the remaining plastic portion of the twist tie down through the empty screw hole ....carefully thread the screw back down into the hole ....trim any plastic projecting out of that screw hole .... voila ! ....a plastic thread locker is yours
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Old 02-22-22, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by TPL View Post
The front derailleur set screw ( photo #3 ) could quite easily be remedied ....

Get a plastic coated wire wrap twist tie from a loaf of bread ....strip the wire from inside the tie ....remove the screw from it's hole ....push the remaining plastic portion of the twist tie down through the empty screw hole ....carefully thread the screw back down into the hole ....trim any plastic projecting out of that screw hole .... voila ! ....a plastic thread locker is yours
I like that!! Thanks!
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