|
Help Identifying This Frame, Intermediate Level
Is it my turn? Let´s see if we can figure this one out:
I bought this frame from a janitor in Germany. I guess they were clearing out a basement. It was an (in-) complete bicycle in poor shape. Frame and fork both fully chromed Campagnolo Super Record group (2nd generation) Campagnolo Chorus rear derailleur (1st generation) Front derailleur missing Modified 180 mm crankset without a date code Cinelli 1R stem with a “Flying C” Price reasonable. I mean, VERY reasonable. Matching numbers on bottom bracket shell and fork (“151”) Columbus pigeon symbol on the fork 27.2 mm seat post Thin Campagnolo fork ends, thin and short Campagnolo frame ends Cinelli S.C. bottom bracket shell Open fork tips, chain stay and seat stay ends Concave seat stay caps Sloping fork-crown Fork-crown and brake bridge drilled for Allen nuts For clamp-on front derailleur and shifters Brake cable guides brazed on Italian threads 126 mm frame width Seat tube 50 cm c-c, upper tube 49 cm c-c. Yes. No decals, no engravings, no cut-outs, no dealer sticker. I forgot to check the date code on the hubs before I sold them. None of the components in the pictures are those the frame came with, except for the headset, the seat post, the brake levers and the brake calipers; all of these were plain factory-style. The drilling, paint and panto was added later by my friend and myself (THAT was fun!). https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ac2ec149e2.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4b2de5a411.jpg https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4d7aaf5621.jpg https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fd8cb22da5.jpg https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...975d723d6a.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e5b4854bb0.jpg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c52a9c59a7.jpg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...12c481204b.jpg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...aefd8c7ed2.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c3c946446a.jpg |
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e42fcae451.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...96766c6153.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d5be081a93.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c0005648fb.jpg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...57ac661437.jpg Who made this frame? I have no clue. Thank you all very much in advance for the fun! Let the games begin! |
-----
appears near to 1982 combination of incasso brakes with no water bottle mounts is an odd one steerer appears to be Columbus ----- |
What happened to the seatstays at the brake bridge. Looks like really bad rust pitting cleaned up and chromed over.
|
1982-ish was my guess, too.
What I find strange is the geometry and the long cranks. There was only one chainring on the cranks (50 teeth), and the seats for the inner chainring were filed off. There was no front derailleur but the left shifter was still there. |
Originally Posted by oneclick
(Post 22168384)
What happened to the seatstays at the brake bridge. Looks like really bad rust pitting cleaned up and chromed over.
|
the long fishmouth finish on the drop outs both front and rear combined with what appears to a be steep ST angel and more lax head tube and the 180mm crank lead to think this was a custom build.
as usual, take what I say with a dollop of grease |
"Custom-built" is what I think. Interestingly, it fits me like a glove.
I believe it is Italian. But who would, for example, make these "fish mouth" dropouts? I don´t see them so often. Was there a frame builder in Italy in 1982 who made frames with such dropouts? |
Originally Posted by Nuovo Record
(Post 22168851)
"Custom-built" is what I think. Interestingly, it fits me like a glove.
I believe it is Italian. But who would, for example, make these "fish mouth" dropouts? I don´t see them so often. Was there a frame builder in Italy in 1982 who made frames with such dropouts? |
Vicini...maybe we have a track here. Do you know more about this? Have you seen similar frames from Vicini?
|
Originally Posted by Nuovo Record
(Post 22169775)
Vicini...maybe we have a track here. Do you know more about this? Have you seen similar frames from Vicini?
Some similar attributes... |
Those deep fishmouth stay ends (in my mind) place this frame in Emilia Romagna, in or around Bologna. The three builders that come to mind are the Patelli brothers, Ugo Chiesa and Rivola (who learned from Chiesa and had some frames labeled Rivola made by Chiesa).
The stamping on the bottom bracket doesn't look familiar to me but then Patellis and Chiesa did do a fair number of contract builds, so it could have been done at client's request? Here are some random pics of somewhat similar features: Patelli: https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...dc383d83b5.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c384d83d36.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...453c46aed1.jpg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...da61b8f498.jpg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ee8e5f5355.jpg https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3c774185cc.jpg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fef7273f94.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4dd1998d7c.jpg Rivola: https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9e27bbe6b2.jpg https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4a02dea0e2.jpg |
|
Yes, that looks good. Great! :thumb:
The Patelli frames have very similar stay ends and lugs. Do you have more pictures of the other two, perhaps? Some more Rivola (from Ravenna, Emiglia Romagna): https://cicli-berlinetta.com/product...-49-cm-silver/ http://www.frameteller.it/2016/03/31/rivola/ |
MauriceMoss
Hi, have you more pictures of the Rivola? Specially beneath the bottom bracket shell? And also all other details, fork crown, seat lug etc... |
More pictures of the Chiesa frame?
|
which part of cermany did that come from? Each area had go-to shops for local racers with "special" requests. Shops in the south (Baden-Württemberg, Bavaria) often had close ties to italian shops, in Munich dere was Radsport Baldi who had close connections to Patelli, for example. Shops in the Ruhr area may have gone to belgium or dutch framemakers. Could of course also have been a local frame builder, each area had several who didnt see much distribution outside the vicinity, Redl, Altinger, Scheral in Munich, Rickert, Marschall, Krabo in the Ruhr and Rhein-Main region, Wechsel in Hamburg, Lüders and Grunow in Berlin etc etc...
|
Anyhow as Gianni Rivola states he build only 1000 frames for 15 years, one a half decade, ca. form 1978 for two years under guidance of Umberto Chiesa, till 1993/95.
So there do not exsist plenty of Rivola frames. |
80 to 90 frames as regular yearly output.
Hightimes 1981 with 120 produces frames. |
Recently I purchased a Rivola frame, 437 beneath the bottom bracket shell, rather tall frame with 61x58,5 cm, this spring actually.
I found Rivola 10, 110, 119, 149, 341, 629, 882, 883, 942, and my 437 As older modles without number etc. |
Originally Posted by martl
(Post 22438191)
which part of cermany did that come from? Each area had go-to shops for local racers with "special" requests. Shops in the south (Baden-Württemberg, Bavaria) often had close ties to italian shops, in Munich dere was Radsport Baldi who had close connections to Patelli, for example. Shops in the Ruhr area may have gone to belgium or dutch framemakers. Could of course also have been a local frame builder, each area had several who didnt see much distribution outside the vicinity, Redl, Altinger, Scheral in Munich, Rickert, Marschall, Krabo in the Ruhr and Rhein-Main region, Wechsel in Hamburg, Lüders and Grunow in Berlin etc etc...
|
Originally Posted by juvela
(Post 22168374)
-----
appears near to 1982 combination of incasso brakes with no water bottle mounts is an odd one steerer appears to be Columbus ----- Boy, that bike has a steep seat tube angle. |
swallow tail - coda di rondine...
still two more post, till i finally can upload some images/pictures... |
The seat tube looks really steep in your photo, suggesting a frame built for criterium racing.
|
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...67265aabea.jpg
Rivola 437 https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...819113a37d.jpg rare 3tt stem nos & nip https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3866693a51.jpg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...acfba0d2f7.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9972ea046b.jpg "hollow" drilled fork crown! https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ad25855bfc.jpg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c352857da3.jpg bit of "liquid" brazilian carnauba by mother's :D https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8cb73d4e07.jpg pinned bottom bracket shell and visible pin - scatola moviemnto centrale con puntatura e spina visibile https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2130c4efde.jpg pedals are still nos! Bought crank and chainrings sperately nos a few years ago and used them already on an other build |
| All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:23 AM. |
Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.