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1986 Jeff Lyon

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1986 Jeff Lyon

Old 08-08-21, 03:22 PM
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Roger M 
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1986 Jeff Lyon

I picked this up today. Purchased from the original owner. I'll post up details shortly.

Anyone want to take a stab at the makers name?




Last edited by Roger M; 08-12-21 at 08:52 PM.
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Old 08-08-21, 04:08 PM
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-----

are you not worried photo may give too many clues?


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Old 08-08-21, 04:10 PM
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I always think Ritchey when I see fillet brazed, lugless, etc. but this ain't that I don't think.
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Old 08-08-21, 04:32 PM
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not sure who it is.
The key features that jump out to me are the seat stay attachment, the use of an oversize down tube, and that collar/reinforcement at the lower edge of the headtube.

Looks nice enough.

edit: simply because the "tall bike" detail is emphasized, I'll guess Jim Merz. ....it's not big enough to be Zinn, is it?....

Steve in Peoria
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Old 08-08-21, 04:40 PM
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This one.

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Old 08-08-21, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by steelbikeguy View Post
not sure who it is.
The key features that jump out to me are the seat stay attachment, the use of an oversize down tube, and that collar/reinforcement at the lower edge of the headtube.

Looks nice enough.

edit: simply because the "tall bike" detail is emphasized, I'll guess Jim Merz. ....it's not big enough to be Zinn, is it?....

Steve in Peoria
You're kinda right, Steve, as for the crankset. They are Zinn 200mm pieces. The frame is from an American builder.
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Old 08-08-21, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Roger M View Post
You're kinda right, Steve, as for the crankset. They are Zinn 200mm pieces. The frame is from an American builder.
well, just to keep the game going....

I don't know of a list of folks who specialize in large frames, but I've seen a number of large ones from Bruce Gordon. A nearby friend picked up a nice BG touring bike last year, and the seat cluster looked like this:



All of the shots that I have of BG frame show him using the seat stays as the seat post pinch bolt, so I'm inclined to not think he built your frame. Haven't seen a fillet brazed frame from him either, but I assume he could do it. He certainly liked some aesthetic flourishes here and there, so fillet brazing seems like something he'd resist.

I've got a fillet brazed frame from a small Iowa builder named Gordon Borthwick. Different seat stay arrangement, and he didn't use a reinforcing ring at the bottom of the head tube, but he was fond of oversize down tubes. He mostly built tandems, which I suspect is why he leaned towards fillet brazing. I wouldn't be surprised if your builder did some tandem work too... although specializing in large frames would be another reason to use fillet brazing to get the required weird frame angles and accommodate large tubes.

Any more hints?

Steve in Peoria
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Old 08-08-21, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by steelbikeguy View Post
not sure who it is.
The key features that jump out to me are the seat stay attachment, the use of an oversize down tube, and that collar/reinforcement at the lower edge of the headtube.

Looks nice enough.

edit: simply because the "tall bike" detail is emphasized, I'll guess Jim Merz. ....it's not big enough to be Zinn, is it?....

Steve in Peoria
As we all know, one should never say never but I have never seen a fillet Merz, just sayin.
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Old 08-08-21, 08:05 PM
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Ooh, I know - but I'll exclude myself from the game because I had insider information
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Old 08-08-21, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by steelbikeguy View Post
well, just to keep the game going....

Any more hints?

Steve in Peoria
Not Bruce Gordon.

They're still building frames. This particular bike was built in 1986.


Last edited by Roger M; 08-08-21 at 08:43 PM.
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Old 08-08-21, 08:50 PM
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I was gonna guess Landshark, until I saw the pseudo-lug on the lower head tube. Also, I don't think they're still in the biz.

--Shannon
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Old 08-08-21, 09:30 PM
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The seat stays are Ron Cooper's thing, but you said the builder's American and not dead. I'm fairly stumped.
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Old 08-08-21, 09:58 PM
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Moon Shot In Stays

Peter Mooney?
(He favours that fork crown.)

Originally Posted by scarlson View Post
The seat stays are Ron Cooper's thing, but you said the builder's American and not dead. I'm fairly stumped.
Similar, but not the same. The treatment on mine is much less angular, and more rounded.
Didn't Eisentraut, Gordon, and a number of others who may have met Cooper use similar stay end finishes at the seat post juncture at some point in their careers?
Cursory survey doesn't turn up Mooney using that technique, but as he apprenticed to Cooper, if anyone has the right to, and might have, it's him?
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Old 08-09-21, 12:23 AM
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Any reason to think that it wasn't made by Waterford?
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Old 08-09-21, 09:46 AM
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Tire is on backwards.
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Old 08-09-21, 09:50 AM
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Some good guessing, but no one hit the mark.

Jeff Lyon built this for a 6'7" cyclist.

Here it is 'as found'

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Old 08-09-21, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Roger M View Post
Some good guessing, but no one hit the mark.

Jeff Lyon built this for a 6'7" cyclist.

Here it is 'as found'

Very cool.

I knew it wasn't Merz.

Or Ritchey.

ST CTC?

Can you ride this?
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Old 08-09-21, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by merziac View Post
Very cool.

I knew it wasn't Merz.

Or Ritchey.

ST CTC?

Can you ride this?
Seat tube is 67.25cm
top tube 60cm

Heres a photo with the seatpost down to my fit.. I will be changing some parts out, including the 200mm crankset. The stem is a 120mm, which will be replaced by a 100mm Cinelli. The saddle will probably go up a couple cm when I put 175mm crank arms on.


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Old 08-09-21, 11:10 AM
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I bought this from the original owner( who only wants one titanium bike in the garage). He raced it a bunch back in the day, and had it painted about ten years ago(previously light blue).

It's a mix of different tubing, 4130 downtube and seat tube. The owner was unsure of the stays, top tube, and fork. It weighs just over twenty four pounds with pedals and cage. For comparison, the green Michael Johnson weighs only a couple ounces more and is 67cm. Big red feels lighter and quicker handling in the saddle( maybe due to 27" tires on the green bike?).

Frame - 67.25cm
wheels - ultegra 28h front on Velocity rim
7400 32h on unknown rim
6 speed freewheel
Zinn 200mm cranks
XTR headset
American Classic post
Salsa stem
Suntour front derailleur
7400 rear derailleur and shifters
Sram brake levers

It's looks like typical road geometry from the era, and will fit at least 28mm tires. I'm not sure how I'll build it up yet,, but those crank arms will be going away. The paint has a few chips and scratches, but it should clean up pretty good.

Last edited by Roger M; 08-09-21 at 11:22 AM.
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Old 08-09-21, 11:32 AM
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That's pretty dang cool, nice score, you're batting a 1000 right about now.
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Old 08-09-21, 08:33 PM
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Tonight I gave it a quick bath, and changed out a couple things.

The front derailleur was a Suntour Le Pre, so a 86d that and put on a 7400 part that I had in the garage. The Salsa 120mm stem/ergo bars/Sram levers don't appeal to me, so I swapped em for some Cinelli bars/100mm stem/Cane Creek levers.

Everything spins freely, shifts, and stops well. For that reason I'm not going to blow it apart for an overhaul. At least not until winter. I reused the bar tape, and not sure what I'll do in the future for tape and saddle. I might install Dura ace 9 speed(have shifters and derailleur)in the coming months, along with some other wheels. Maybe.

One thing to note. The headtube is ten and a half inches long... longer than even the 68cm Expedition.

St angle 73
Ht angle 74




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Old 08-09-21, 10:05 PM
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Apple, Tree, Etc.

Originally Posted by scarlson View Post
The seat stays are Ron Cooper's thing, but you said the builder's American and not dead. I'm fairly stumped.
Originally Posted by machinist42 View Post
Peter Mooney?
(He favours that fork crown.)



Similar, but not the same. The treatment on mine is much less angular, and more rounded.
Didn't Eisentraut, Gordon, and a number of others who may have met Cooper use similar stay end finishes at the seat post juncture at some point in their careers?
Cursory survey doesn't turn up Mooney using that technique, but as he apprenticed to Cooper, if anyone has the right to, and might have, it's him?
Originally Posted by Roger M View Post
Some good guessing, but no one hit the mark.

Jeff Lyon built this for a 6'7" cyclist.

Here it is 'as found'

Jeff Lyon and Ron Cooper both apprenticed under Bill Philbrook, albeit thirty years apart. I've seen examples of Philbrook's work with the shot in stay treatment.

Here's a quick grab:


Bill Philbrook, Ray Green's



https://www.classicrendezvous.com/Bri...os/photo1.html


(Apologies for this tangent. I am intrigued with the influence of the British Builders Philbrook and Cooper on American Frame Building, and so of course assume everyone else is as well?)

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Old 08-09-21, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by machinist42 View Post
Was is that, 56 front and a 13-17 corncob? With canti brakes, with the front reverse-mounted, and that aero head tube fairing... One of the crazy-weird-coolest bikes I've ever seen.

Bespoke British-style long-distance TT bike?

If Beryl Burton and Francesco Moser ever had a kid, with Pino Moroni and Bill Philbrook standing as Godparents, this would have been their bike.

Totally killer.

--Shannon

Also, "William Philbrook" is the Britishest name since "Sir Basil Rathbone."
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Old 08-12-21, 09:17 PM
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I got out for a couple of rides on the Lyon. I like the ride, but getting comfortable with 200mm cranks is going to take some time.

I made another change this evening. The bike had a 7400 rear derailleur and shifters, along with a 6 speed freewheel. I've been holding the following parts for a few years:

7700 Shifters
7402 rd
9 speed cassette
Chris King Classic hubs w/Open Pro rims
Kore titanium skewers

I have used dura ace 7700 shifters with a 7402 derailleur, it works good on a 9 speed cassette. The hub is quite a bit louder than the DA it replaced, but that will help keep me pedaling more..





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Old 08-12-21, 11:23 PM
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Any ride and handling characteristics that stand out to you? How long is the top tube? Inquiring tall riders need to know!

Glad you've updated the drivetrain. Once you mount a spare crankset in your size, that will make another good bit of difference in how it gets along. Nice to see a Lyon on the forums.
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