Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Atom 77 freewheel vintage Austro daimler

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Atom 77 freewheel vintage Austro daimler

Old 08-11-21, 09:09 AM
  #1  
Vintagerose
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Atom 77 freewheel vintage Austro daimler

Fixing up my parents old austro Daimlerís. My dads has all old campy parts on it. Was having shifting problems and would always get tossed out of 2nd gear. Looking at the freewheel the second to biggest cog doesnít have enough space from the first. Not sure if I just got a little bent or the spacer wore out or what. I went to replace it with a 6 speed instead and realized the rear derailleur wonít fit with that big of a freewheel. So now Iím stuck looking for a atom 77- 5 speed with a 14/24 tooth count. Hard to find. My main question is I can find an atom 77, but they are usually compact. I donít think the original is, and I donít know what compact is referring to??
Vintagerose is offline  
Old 08-11-21, 06:09 PM
  #2  
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 23,506

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 136 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2950 Post(s)
Liked 1,975 Times in 1,181 Posts
"Compact" refers to the spacing between the sprockets. A compact 6-speed block is the same width as a "standard" 5-speed block. Atom 77 freewheels were available in both compact and standard spacing. But unless your hub is metric (aka "French") thread, an ISO/English thread compact block from any manufacturer will mount on the hub.
JohnDThompson is offline  
Old 08-11-21, 06:18 PM
  #3  
rustystrings61 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Greenwood SC USA
Posts: 1,908

Bikes: 2002 Mercian Vincitore, 1982 Mercian Colorado, 1976 Puch Royal X, 1974 Allegro No. 76, 1973 Raleigh Competition, 1973 Raleigh GS, 1971 Gitane Tour de France and others

Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 668 Post(s)
Liked 873 Times in 468 Posts
Which model Austro-Daimler is it - and which model rear derailleur? Any 5-speed freewheel with standard/ISO threads should work, as Steyr-Daimler-Puch used ISO-threaded fittings for the bikes marketed as Austro-Daimlers - at least, those sold in the United States.
rustystrings61 is offline  
Likes For rustystrings61:
Old 08-11-21, 09:14 PM
  #4  
Vintagerose
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Itís a Daimler vent noir 2. Campy hub. I put a atom 77 6 speed on it but the derailleur hits the biggest cog so itís a no go. Gotta stick to a 5 speed. Campy gran sport rear derailleur.
Vintagerose is offline  
Old 08-11-21, 09:16 PM
  #5  
Vintagerose
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Wonít let me upload pictures yet. Too green on the forum

but it I canít find another atom 77 14/24 5 speed hub, what the heck should I put on this old bird? Ready to get it rolling again

Last edited by Vintagerose; 08-11-21 at 09:19 PM.
Vintagerose is offline  
Old 08-11-21, 09:27 PM
  #6  
Chombi1 
Senior Member
 
Chombi1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 3,842
Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1365 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 460 Times in 317 Posts
If it's a Campy NR RD, it won't be able to handle any cog bigger than a 23 or a 24, I think. At least that's what I seem to remember when I used to run an NR RD on my Peugeot PSV.
__________________
72 Line Seeker
83 Davidson Signature
84 Peugeot PSV
84 Peugeot PY10FC
84 Gitane Tour de France.
85 Vitus Plus Carbone 7
86 ALAN Record Carbonio
86 Medici Aerodynamic (Project)
88 Pinarello Montello
89 Bottecchia Professional Chorus SL
95 Trek 5500 OCLV (Project)
Chombi1 is offline  
Old 08-11-21, 09:44 PM
  #7  
rustystrings61 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Greenwood SC USA
Posts: 1,908

Bikes: 2002 Mercian Vincitore, 1982 Mercian Colorado, 1976 Puch Royal X, 1974 Allegro No. 76, 1973 Raleigh Competition, 1973 Raleigh GS, 1971 Gitane Tour de France and others

Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 668 Post(s)
Liked 873 Times in 468 Posts
Pretty much ANY 5-speed freewheel with a small enough large cog should work - you donít need an old Atom.
rustystrings61 is offline  
Old 08-12-21, 01:02 AM
  #8  
Vintagerose
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by rustystrings61 View Post
Pretty much ANY 5-speed freewheel with a small enough large cog should work - you donít need an old Atom.

thats good to know. I was trying to keep it as close to original as possible, thatís why I was looking for other atoms. Is that hub a certain thread type I need to keep in mind?
Vintagerose is offline  
Old 08-12-21, 04:05 AM
  #9  
oneclick 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,910
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 714 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 747 Times in 450 Posts
Originally Posted by Chombi1 View Post
If it's a Campy NR RD, it won't be able to handle any cog bigger than a 23 or a 24, I think. At least that's what I seem to remember when I used to run an NR RD on my Peugeot PSV.
He's posted it's a Gran Sport, which had a claimed largest sprocket of 26, and a reputation for working with bigger.

It appears from what he's posted that the cage or top jockey wheel is hitting the innermost sprocket of a replacement freewheel, so it's either too big or the chain length needs fettling; or possibly a spacer under the freewheel as at the most inward position the derailleur cage is on the upswing of its arc.

However, if the original issue was actually caused by a too-narrow spacing (for whatever reason) between the first and second sprockets on a five-speed freewheel, he might most easily solve it by using a narrower chain.
oneclick is offline  
Old 08-12-21, 05:16 AM
  #10  
pastorbobnlnh 
Freewheel Medic
 
pastorbobnlnh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: NH Mountains NW of Concord & Mid-GA Coast!
Posts: 12,014

Bikes: Snazzy* Schwinns, Classy Cannondales, & a Lonely '83 Santana Tandem (* Ed.)

Mentioned: 108 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 892 Post(s)
Liked 674 Times in 374 Posts
The Campy hub should be marked near the threading for the type of freewheel. They came in ISO, Italian, and French threading.

I'm very doubtful that a spacer could wear out between the two largest sprockets. Possibly when Atom assembled the freewheel, a compact spacer found its way into the normal spacer bin. Also it is difficult to bend sprockets of that size. 30T and larger, yes it's possible. A 24T, very doubtful.

Keep posting and reach 10 and then you can add pictures.
__________________
Bob
Dreaming about riding in NH's summertime while enjoying the GA coast for the remainder of the year!

Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com




pastorbobnlnh is offline  
Old 08-12-21, 07:12 AM
  #11  
rustystrings61 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Greenwood SC USA
Posts: 1,908

Bikes: 2002 Mercian Vincitore, 1982 Mercian Colorado, 1976 Puch Royal X, 1974 Allegro No. 76, 1973 Raleigh Competition, 1973 Raleigh GS, 1971 Gitane Tour de France and others

Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 668 Post(s)
Liked 873 Times in 468 Posts
Originally Posted by Vintagerose View Post
thats good to know. I was trying to keep it as close to original as possible, thatís why I was looking for other atoms. Is that hub a certain thread type I need to keep in mind?
It's most likely an ISO-threaded hub. FWIW, my 1976 Puch Royal X, which was built by the same guys on the same fixtures in Graz, came stock with an Italian Regina Oro 14-22 5-speed freewheel on a BSC/ISO-threaded Normandy Luxe Comp hub. A quick trawl of the internet leads me to this account of Austro-Daimler, specifically focusing on a Vent Noir II. The listed freewheel is a 5-speed 14-24 Regina Oro.

The quickest way to improve shifting back then was to switch to a SunTour freewheel and a Sedisport chain - which is what I wound up doing with my Puch. It would not be a grievous sin to replace your freewheel with a more modern 5-speed from Sunrace or pretty much anyone - unless you get phenomenally luck and score a SunTour Ultra 6-speed freewheel, which puts 6 cogs in the space of 5, and which started the whole shrinking space between cogs we all know today. That definitely requires going to what has become the modern 5-to-8-speed chain of today, which is the spiritual descendant of the old Sedisport narrow of the early 80s.

I'm also thinking you may want to check your chain length - the Nuovo Gran Sport derailleur allegedly is rated for 26T, but there are enough accounts of people running not just 28T but even 31T (!) to justify playing with a new chain and freewheel combo and seeing how well you can stretch the limits.

It's worth the hassle. My old Puch - which had the same angles, tubing and lugs as the original Vent Noir - is always a fun bike to ride.
rustystrings61 is offline  
Old 08-13-21, 01:09 PM
  #12  
Vintagerose
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
I found another atom freewheel in 6 speed instead of 5 and snagged it up. But the jockey wheel couldnít clear the last cog. I bought a brand new Sachs sedis chain, though i think itís vintage. It seems to be slightly more narrow than the old chain. I may try to see if it is narrow enough to work with the original freewheel! It may be able to fit in the second cog even though itís not evenly spaced like the rest
Vintagerose is offline  
Old 08-13-21, 03:04 PM
  #13  
oneclick 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,910
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 714 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 747 Times in 450 Posts
I just went and checked the spacing on a few atom FW, the six-speed DID have a narrower spacing between the largest and the next-largest (3.1-something vs, 3.5-something), all the rest and all the 5-speed ones were the 3.5-ish.
oneclick is offline  
Old 08-14-21, 12:53 AM
  #14  
Vintagerose
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by oneclick View Post
I just went and checked the spacing on a few atom FW, the six-speed DID have a narrower spacing between the largest and the next-largest (3.1-something vs, 3.5-something), all the rest and all the 5-speed ones were the 3.5-ish.

what about the spacing on the 5 speeds? We the two largest cogs a tad closer together? I really think the new chain may actually work I just gotta find some time to slap it all together. Now Iím having issues with brake pads lol. If itís not one thing itís another for sure
Vintagerose is offline  
Old 08-14-21, 05:32 AM
  #15  
oneclick 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,910
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 714 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 747 Times in 450 Posts
Originally Posted by Vintagerose View Post
what about the spacing on the 5 speeds? We the two largest cogs a tad closer together?
5-speeds were all the same, 3.5-ish.
oneclick is offline  
Old 08-14-21, 06:22 AM
  #16  
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 23,506

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 136 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2950 Post(s)
Liked 1,975 Times in 1,181 Posts
Originally Posted by Vintagerose View Post
Is that hub a certain thread type I need to keep in mind?
Some hubs have markings of some kind to indicate thread spec. If you can't find a mark, English/ISO is the most likely. You can test this using a known, English thread bottom bracket lockring. If the hub is English/ISO thread, the lockring will thread on easily and fully.

Sometimes freewheels are marked as well. An original Atom freewheel will have a rectangular mark on the back (older production) or be explicitly marked with thread spec on the back (1.37 x 24 for English/ISO).
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
hub-markings.jpg (57.2 KB, 78 views)
File Type: jpg
freewheel-markings.jpg (85.3 KB, 77 views)
File Type: jpg
atom-rectangle.jpg (344.5 KB, 71 views)
JohnDThompson is offline  
Old 08-14-21, 01:02 PM
  #17  
John E
feros ferio
 
John E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Posts: 21,020

Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;

Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1171 Post(s)
Liked 711 Times in 500 Posts
Originally Posted by Chombi1 View Post
If it's a Campy NR RD, it won't be able to handle any cog bigger than a 23 or a 24, I think. At least that's what I seem to remember when I used to run an NR RD on my Peugeot PSV.
I have run 50-42/14-16-18-20-23-26 on the Bianchi for at least 20 years, and the NR derailleurs handle the combination beautifully. Some folks on BF report being able to push NRs to 28 or even 30 T in back.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
John E is offline  
Old 08-14-21, 10:55 PM
  #18  
Vintagerose
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Vintagerose is offline  
Old 08-14-21, 10:57 PM
  #19  
Vintagerose
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Honestly that was a test to see if I could post pictures yet! I put the original freewheel back on with a new chain. I wasnít paying good enough attention when I took it apart though to how the chain was routed on the derailleur. My jockey wheels seem to be in a much different position than everyone elseís. My bottom one is almost the same level as the top one. Please tell me this isnt routed right, the chain seems way long still and itís a tad shorter than the old one.
Vintagerose is offline  
Old 08-15-21, 02:30 AM
  #20  
verktyg 
verktyg
 
verktyg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 3,942

Bikes: Current favorites: 1988 Peugeot Birraritz, 1984 Gitane Super Corsa, 1981 Bianchi Campione Del Mondo, 1992 Paramount OS, 1990 Bianchi Mondiale, 1988 Colnago Technos, 1985 RalieghUSA Team Pro, 1973 Holdsworth

Mentioned: 195 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 992 Post(s)
Liked 1,043 Times in 580 Posts
Campy NR RD Capacity

Originally Posted by Chombi1 View Post
If it's a Campy NR RD, it won't be able to handle any cog bigger than a 23 or a 24, I think.
WHAT!!!

Chombi, what's come over you?

The published rear sprocket capacity for Campy Nuovo Record, 1st generation Super Record and UBER UGLY Gran Sport rear derailleurs was 13-26T with 42-52T or 53T chainrings.

As far back as 1973 we were installing 14-28T 5 speed freewheels on customer's bikes with Campy NR RDs. ALL of my NR and SR equipped bikes have at least 28T large sprockets.

On a Classic Rendezvous ride back in 2013 at least 2 riders were running 34T large sprockets with NR derailleurs.




I had a 13-31T Regina Oro FW on my 1970 Gitane Super Corsa.



The 2nd generation Super Record RDs were rated at 13-28T but could handle 30T or even 32T FWs.

12-32T Sachs ARIS 7 speed FW with a 2nd generation SR RD.



It's not a plug and play operation to get oversize FWs to work with NR rear derailleurs but with a little trial and error, rear hub positioning plus adding a chain link or two it should work on many bikes.

One thing to note on those NR/SR/GS rear derailleurs, Frank Berto said something to the effect that they they were well made and beautiful and that they would shift poorly forever!

That was one of the many evidence based truths that got him on Campy's faeces list!

What I found was that they shift well on straight block, corn cob style FWs with sprockets up to 21T or so... Over 24T they fall behind most other RD designs.

Goring oxen everyday!

verktyg
__________________
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....

Chas. ;-)


Last edited by verktyg; 08-15-21 at 02:36 AM.
verktyg is offline  
Likes For verktyg:
Old 08-15-21, 04:31 AM
  #21  
pastorbobnlnh 
Freewheel Medic
 
pastorbobnlnh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: NH Mountains NW of Concord & Mid-GA Coast!
Posts: 12,014

Bikes: Snazzy* Schwinns, Classy Cannondales, & a Lonely '83 Santana Tandem (* Ed.)

Mentioned: 108 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 892 Post(s)
Liked 674 Times in 374 Posts
Vintagerose you need a longer chain. Routing is correct. EDIT: Now that I see your additional pictures, your routing is all wrong and agree with oneclick below.

From what I can see, there appears to be a good bit of wear on the sprocket teeth of your Atom 77. Please take some daylight pictures of it with the wheel off the bike. EDIT: The additional pictures show the rounding of the teeth, especially on the two largest sprockets. It's time for a new freewheel.
__________________
Bob
Dreaming about riding in NH's summertime while enjoying the GA coast for the remainder of the year!

Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com





Last edited by pastorbobnlnh; 08-15-21 at 03:15 PM.
pastorbobnlnh is offline  
Old 08-15-21, 05:13 AM
  #22  
oneclick 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,910
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 714 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 747 Times in 450 Posts
Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
Vintagerose you need a longer chain. Routing is correct.
Yes, and no.

Chain needs to follow ALL of the S-shaped edge of the cage plates; over the top of the right pulley, clockwise around it and then through the gap and anti-clockwise around the left pulley, then to the bottom of the front chainring.
oneclick is offline  
Old 08-15-21, 06:58 AM
  #23  
Vintagerose
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Hereís some better pictures


Vintagerose is offline  
Old 08-15-21, 07:12 AM
  #24  
FBOATSB 
Senior Member
 
FBOATSB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Central Indiana
Posts: 2,083

Bikes: Old Stuff

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 835 Post(s)
Liked 374 Times in 259 Posts
Originally Posted by Vintagerose View Post
Hereís some better pictures


Me thinks you need to wind the spring on your pulleys 180į before you thread your chain through.
I have an Atom 5 speed freewheel with 14-24 cogs, English thread, that I'm not especially married to but it is not a 77. I think it may be older. It requires a two notch removal instead of the splined one. Requires cleaning before I can photograph it.
FBOATSB is offline  
Likes For FBOATSB:
Old 08-15-21, 09:23 AM
  #25  
Vintagerose
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
If I put it on large front small back thereís so much slack it flops all over and hits the frame
Vintagerose is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.