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Dating this Raleigh Competition

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Dating this Raleigh Competition

Old 08-21-21, 05:19 PM
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led
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Dating this Raleigh Competition

This Raleigh has Nervex lugs and the frame is Reynolds 531. Brakes, Headset, Seat Post, Derailleurs, Shift Levers, Crankset, Drop Outs all say Campagnolo. Hubs are Normandy Luxe Competition. A serial no. on bottom bracket is E3000. Partial label on rim says Corsa. On the top tube is a faint 'Competition' on both sides. The stem says TTT Special.
Trying to date this bike and determine what components are likely original.
Thanks in advance for the help!













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Old 08-21-21, 05:27 PM
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More pics...







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Old 08-21-21, 05:29 PM
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I like it!
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Old 08-21-21, 05:33 PM
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-----

1969-1970

original chainset was Zeus Competition

original brakeset was Weinmann centerpull

original gear ensemble was Simplex Prestige

original saddle pillar was plain

original pedals were Atom 700

original headset was Alatet

original stem and bar set GB Ventoux

original saddle Brooks Pro

original drive chain: Renold with off-black finish and beveled plates

---

only remaining original bits are the Gripfast seat binder and the wheels

-----

Last edited by juvela; 08-22-21 at 08:42 AM. Reason: addition
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Old 08-21-21, 05:37 PM
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led
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Originally Posted by juvela View Post
-----

1969-1970

original chainset was Zeus Competition

original brakeset was Weinmann centerpull

original gear ensemble was Simplex Prestige

original saddle pillar was plain

original pedals were Atom 700

original headset was Alatet

-----
so a lot changed out. How old would the rcomponents on it be approx and do you think all from same time period?
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Old 08-21-21, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by led View Post
so a lot changed out. How old would the rcomponents on it be approx and do you think all from same time period?
They are mostly later and a usual upgrade, although the original kit would be cooler in originality.

Someone stepped way up on this.
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Old 08-21-21, 05:55 PM
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Seller did you a favor, swapping out those mixed parts for what seems like a mostly complete Campagnolo groupset.
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Old 08-21-21, 06:47 PM
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What's the date on the rear derailleur? On top should be engraved "Pat XY" where XY are the last two digits of the year.
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Old 08-21-21, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
What's the date on the rear derailleur? On top should be engraved "Pat XY" where XY are the last two digits of the year.
it just says ‘Patent’.

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Old 08-21-21, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by merziac View Post
They are mostly later and a usual upgrade, although the original kit would be cooler in originality.

Someone stepped way up on this.
I guess it might be a nice ride when put back in order.
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Old 08-21-21, 07:26 PM
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Green and black appear to be the two colors for 1969 and 70. I have the black version, serial number indicates it's a 1970. Raleigh Olympic Head badge, gold paint details long faded. Previous owner had outfitted it with Campy but I changed it to TA and Huret Jubilee, kept the racks and Honjo fenders already installed. I like the randonneur vibe.

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Old 08-21-21, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by PilotFishBob View Post
Green and black appear to be the two colors for 1969 and 70. I have the black version, serial number indicates it's a 1970. Raleigh Olympic Head badge, gold paint details long faded. Previous owner had outfitted it with Campy but I changed it to TA and Huret Jubilee, kept the racks and Honjo fenders already installed. I like the randonneur vibe.

Very nice! Not sure yet what I will do with mine. Likely just clean up and service. I think it’s a bit small for me but want to give it a ride nonetheless. Love the lugs on these!
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Old 08-21-21, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by PilotFishBob View Post
Green and black appear to be the two colors for 1969 and 70. I have the black version, serial number indicates it's a 1970. Raleigh Olympic Head badge, gold paint details long faded. Previous owner had outfitted it with Campy but I changed it to TA and Huret Jubilee, kept the racks and Honjo fenders already installed. I like the randonneur vibe.

what a beauty!
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Old 08-21-21, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by led View Post
so a lot changed out. How old would the rcomponents on it be approx and do you think all from same time period?
I have a similar frame; right done to the Milremo fork crown. Nice British Chroming. This bike had a serious grupo upgrade to Nuovo Record gruppo.
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Old 08-21-21, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by led View Post
it just says ‘Patent’.

I believe that puts it between 1967 and 1970, but I’m no Campy expert.
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Old 08-21-21, 11:13 PM
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[ A serial no. on bottom bracket is E3000. The stem says TTT Special.













[/QUOTE]

Thats a nice looking machine !
I have a Carlton with a similar but lower serial number in the same spot that I have tentatively dated to 1967/68 .
The Carlton had the exact same TTT stem and came with GB Coureur 66 center pulls .

Makes me wonder if they were both made in the same factory back then ?
All very interesting .
Have fun with it !



Carlton BMB serial number
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Old 08-22-21, 12:34 AM
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1969 Raleigh Competition

Originally Posted by juvela View Post
-----

1969-1970

original chainset was Zeus Competition

original brakeset was Weinmann centerpull

original gear ensemble was Simplex Prestige

original saddle pillar was plain

original pedals were Atom 700

original headset was Alatet

original stem and bar set GB Ventoux

original saddle Brooks Pro

---

only remaining original bits are the Gripfast seat binder and the wheels

-----
You nailed it!

Thanks, saved me a lot of writing.

1simplexnut Really fine catch, ready to clean up, tuneup and go - with new tires of course>

1969 US Raleigh catalog showing the Mk I Professional and Competition:



Here's a pristine almost all original 1969 Competition in bronze green:





Apparently the original Competition was only listed in the 1969 US catalog. Maybe in other UK catalogues???

1971 Competitions in 2 different color combos:

White and blue




Lavender and metallic blue. This is my completely upgraded "Barney Bike". It's a great rider - after fixed everything and realigned it - long story...



The 1971 Competitions were comparably equipped with the 1969 models except for a mishmash of different components do to availability problems during the bike boom.

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Old 08-22-21, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by led View Post
so a lot changed out. How old would the rcomponents on it be approx and do you think all from same time period?
-----

yes, the fittings appear that the changes were made within two years or so of the cycle's original purchase

the 3TTT Gran Prix stem is a helpful dating aid. its final year was 1972, before it was superseded by the Record model

background -

it was common at this epoch for enthusiasts to covet a road machine which was, in the parlance of the day, "full Campy"

many could not afford such a prize and had to compromise with models such as the Peugeot PX-10, Gitane Tour de France, Mercier 300...or this Raleigh Competition

they would then embark upon a programme of "Campyfication" to replace components with Campag NR ones; usually doing so gradually as funds permitted. it was common in the era to see machines in various stages of this process.

for reference, minimun wage at this time was under two dollars/hour

-----
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Old 08-22-21, 07:30 PM
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Bike Prices BITD

Originally Posted by juvela View Post
-----

yes, the fittings appear that the changes were made within two years or so of the cycle's original purchase

the 3TTT Gran Prix stem is a helpful dating aid. its final year was 1972, before it was superseded by the Record model

background -

it was common at this epoch for enthusiasts to covet a road machine which was, in the parlance of the day, "full Campy"

many could not afford such a prize and had to compromise with models such as the Peugeot PX-10, Gitane Tour de France, Mercier 300...or this Raleigh Competition

they would then embark upon a programme of "Campyfication" to replace components with Campag NR ones; usually doing so gradually as funds permitted. it was common in the era to see machines in various stages of this process.

for reference, minimun wage at this time was under two dollars/hour

-----

"All Campy" usually meant everything except the brakes. Campy brakes were introduced in 1969 but didn't become readily available until at least 1971. They sold for between $129 and $175 a set depending on source and availability.

There was a very good Raleigh/Peugeot dealer about 4 blocks from our shop. In 1973 they received at least 3 Raleigh Pros with Weinmann CP brakes and the same GP bars, stem, white Carlton brake hoods, cable housings and bar tape that came on the International models. Raleigh said they couldn't get Campy brakes from the UK but they would install them at their US headquarters in Boston on new bikes when available or ship them to dealers later, either way for an additional $175 USD!

We sold a lot of mid range bikes that our customers could upgrade later. We "educated" them on the idea that the frame and wheels were the most important parts on a bike as far as performance goes.

Legnano/Frejus offered nice mid range models with butted Reynolds 531 or butted Falck tubing and Campy dropouts. They came with cottered steel cranks, Universal 61 CP brakes, sewup wheels with Gnutti hubs which were decent quality plus the bonus was Campy NR derailleurs and headsets. The bars and stems were 3TTT Record plus they had Unicanitor saddles. A lot of bang for the buck!

Gitanes were our largest sellers until 1975 when Gitane Pacific started to list heavily before going bow down. As you mentioned the Tour de France models were a popular bike to upgrade.The first thing that we did for those customers was to get rid of the "Freccia D'Oro" (Golden Arrow) plastic ass hatchets! They were painful just to look at!



Brooks B17s were a popular replacement in the early 70's.

Next was to change out the Simplex Criterium RDs. Campy NR if they could afford $29.00, Suntour V at $6.00 if not. Many riders didn't shift the FD very often - they were just learning about 10 speeds - so the weak link, the Simplex FDs weren't a high priority.

In 1974 Shimano brought out their DuraAce side pull brakes. They were a popular upgrade for TdFs.

You mentioned $2.00 an hour minimum wage... I was making $1.75 an hour at my first job when I moved to New Mexico! I was only there for a few months until I got a "good paying" job at $3.00 an hour.

Back then you could get a VW Bug for $1900 and a cheap Chevy Bel Air for $2300.

The idea that someone would pay $300 FOR A BIKE? Man, you must be out of your tree!!!

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Last edited by verktyg; 08-22-21 at 07:39 PM.
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Old 08-23-21, 01:18 AM
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Originally Posted by verktyg View Post
You nailed it!

Thanks, saved me a lot of writing.

1simplexnut Really fine catch, ready to clean up, tuneup and go - with new tires of course>

verktyg
Hi Chas , Green one not mine unfortunately .
Have a Carlton with serial of E1068 in the same spot as OP bike .
Based on scanty information available I have dated it to 1967 or 1968 .
Makes green machine 1969 or 1970 ? which ties up with your info.
All good fun



some component changes since this pic .
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Old 08-23-21, 08:49 AM
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Man, I love these "blasts from the past" postings from our senior members! In 1972 I got a job at a Chevron station on Oxnard Blvd. for a whopping $1.10 a hour, minimum wage was $1.25 but I lied about my age to get the job so I never complained. I drove a 1964 VW bug that I bought for about $150 and I rebuilt the dying engine. We had gas wars and the price of gas dropped to about $.25 a gallon. Yea , $300 for a bicycle would be out of my wheelhouse . My used Schwinn Varsity for $25 was just fine and I rode it until I got a job as a machinist apprentice for $3.10 an hour . I went out and bought a light weight Japanese racing bike , still could not afford anything with Campagnolo . I liked to show off how fast I was with my Suntour equipped bike. Then I see these pictures of beautiful Competitions and the lug detail and now can see the added expense. I now own bikes I could only dream about back then, but sadly I'm not bragging about how fast they are. I have a 1977 Competition after they went to Bocama Professional lugs, not nearly as ornate but still nice. The early ones like these are works of art!
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Old 08-23-21, 11:24 AM
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-----

the subject machine is certainly an outstanding find for led

someone put all of that work and treasure into those upgrades and then appears to have scarcely ridden the mount

perhaps it has been wall art all of these years...a time capsule in its own right even though no longer exhibiting its ex-works kit


-----
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Old 08-26-21, 03:52 PM
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Thanks everyone for the great posts on this thread! Very much appreciated! I think this bike will stay as is but I will get it put in good order and clean it up. Are there recommended tires for this bike (set of rims) available? Hoods? The ones on it are kind of melted looking. Hope will clean off okay.
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Old 09-15-21, 12:57 AM
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According to Sheldon Brown, the Carlton serial number E series is year of manufacture 1970.
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Old 09-16-21, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by 1simplexnut View Post
Hi Chas , Green one not mine unfortunately .
Have a Carlton with serial of E1068 in the same spot as OP bike .
Based on scanty information available I have dated it to 1967 or 1968 .
Makes green machine 1969 or 1970 ? which ties up with your info.
All good fun



some component changes since this pic .
The E serial indicates a 1970 build at Worksop - whether badged Carlton or Raleigh.

Your bicycle looks very much like the Raleigh Professional MK III which made it's debut in the US's 1971 catalog. I'd hazard a guess that your serial number is higher than that on my Professional MK I (E3215)
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