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Continental GP5000 Tour de France tan: PROBLEM?

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Continental GP5000 Tour de France tan: PROBLEM?

Old 09-06-21, 03:04 PM
  #26  
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Dang,.....Back in the 80's, I used to easily install my narrow (19 -20mm), high pressure Specialized Turbo and Michelin Bib TS tires, with just my bare hands/fingers.
I haven't been able to do the same to my clincher tires since the late 90's.....
Are modern tires generally just now sized tighter on rims?........Unless my hand/finger strength just really faded that much........
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Old 09-14-21, 01:00 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
Yeah, it's not a bike-specific product. Most "tubeless tapes" are actually rebranded strapping tapes. After my other post, 1/2" might be on the narrow side; 5/8" might be a better fit for vintage 700C rims: https://www.kaptontape.com/1_Mil_Kapton_Tapes.php Well, that's an option. Wow, almost ten bucks and I presume that's per wheel? Not per pair?
"Sold per pair (enough to complete one wheelset)." And it's reusable. Disclaimer: I haven't used the above products specifically. But Pacenti blue tape and Stan's tape work on the same principle. [/QUOTE]

Well, spent some time demounting and examining. Yeah, took me a couple of thinner, metal, levers to demount; found the puncture on the inside, right near where the Velox is slipped/pushed to the side enough to expose a spoke hole. just like on my other bike. Aargh!

OK, some data points. On the front wheel (rigid rim, double wall), rim has a depressed channel 10.5mm wide, with 9mm bored holes for the spokes. The Velox tapes I used 10mm wide, 0.6mm thick. Under that I found transparent film tape, 10mm wide 0.28mm thick, so I had almost a millimeter of rim tape in there. Once all off, I tried remounting a tire with no rim tape at all, nor a tube. Went on a lot easier, if not exactly "easy". While at it, I demounted the rear tire too. Rim is a Wolber, once demounted I see there's to discrete depressed center channel the entire inner surface is concave; impossible to measure well in there but about 16mm wide (20MM outside at the brake surface) In contrast to the front, on the inside surface the eyelets bell out and are exposed on the inner surface of the rime where in contact with the tube except for the presence of rim tape; those inner parts of the eyelets are 11.5mm wide. Oddly, while I had the 10mm Velox back there, no film tape.

So, wondering what I would use, I wonder if I need two different (ugh!) widths rim tape. No idea what the other product, Kapton or Continental, are. And are Continental rim tapes self-adhesive, or need glue, or are "free floating"? The latter hat would be a problem, I presume, on the wide inners surface of the rear rim.

By the way, I had not been noticing, but these GP5000 tan sidewall tires, are the bead's "wire inserts" supposed to be continuous? I find breaks every so many inches, perhaps that's what makes these tires foldable -- when I was young, tires were stored and sold at full diameter. Eh, I did not blow them off the rims at over 100psi, so perhaps they are not "broken".
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Old 09-14-21, 03:13 PM
  #28  
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FWIW
I don't know if the limited edition is different than the regular gp5000

Did you have problems mounting the tire? Did you need to use a jack to mount? for me that is the first clue that it could be a pain to remove in the field and I always do a dry run in the comfort of my shop using the tools I have.

IME it is the combination of tire and rim that make things difficult. I have had tires hard to install on one rim and went on easy on a different rim

I have gp5000 mounted on open pro and they went on by hand. Havn't had a flat yet so have not tried field removal
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Old 09-14-21, 05:22 PM
  #29  
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A while back, I tried to the point of exhaustion and fingers going numb to mount the GP5000 TDF 25mm tire on a H Plus Son TB14 box rim. I didnít have a tire jack (but have since bought one) but decided if I couldnít get the tire mounted in the comfort of my home I was not going to hit the road knowing it would be nearly impossible to remove and reinstall the tire in the field so I mounted another tire instead. Itís the only tire and rim combination that Iíve come across that was so difficult.

Iíve mounted GP5000 Transparent 25mm tires on modern rims with no problems. Unfortunately I gashed the sidewall on one of those expensive tires that only had 500 miles on them. I just ordered a replacement tire.

I couldnít flip that last stretch of tire over the box rim and didnít have a tire jack at the time.
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Old 09-15-21, 07:16 AM
  #30  
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By the way, tubeless tire tape sounded like a solution until I went to Bike Tires Direct, and all far too wide that they list and I really don't feel like cutting it laboriously to a narrower width. Perhaps there are other sizes somewhere (for modern racing bikes, I'd presume?)

Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
After my other post, 1/2" might be on the narrow side; 5/8" might be a better fit for vintage 700C rims: https://www.kaptontape.com/1_Mil_Kapton_Tapes.php
Looks like I need two widths for this bike alone: 3/8" front, 1/2" rear. I just ordered a roll of each, looks like just under 5YD/wheel so two 36YD rolls might last me a while. I got Kaptonesque tape just because I wanted it fast, thus Amazon Prime... hope I don't regret that.

Originally Posted by squirtdad View Post
Did you have problems mounting the tire? Did you need to use a jack to mount?
Oh, my, YES! Took forever to mount, which should have set off the alarms. I had subsequently bought a KoolStop jack but have not had it out of the package yet, I need to learn how to use it. Plus, delivering today, I got something called a TyreKey, looks vaguely similar but no moving parts and smaller, might fit in my underseat bags.

Originally Posted by momoman View Post
A while back, I tried to the point of exhaustion and fingers going numb to mount the GP5000 TDF 25mm tire on a H Plus Son TB14 box rim. I didnít have a tire jack (but have since bought one) but decided if I couldnít get the tire mounted in the comfort of my home I was not going to hit the road knowing it would be nearly impossible to remove and reinstall the tire in the field so I mounted another tire instead.
Wow, yours look even tighter than mine. By the way, it's been a while since I left a message at Continental's website about this, still no answer, likely I'll be ignored but it sounds like there is some evidence of a systemic issue with those tires in some applications. Yeah, I wish I had thought ahead about flat repairs on the road, would have saved myself a long walk.
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Old 09-15-21, 08:17 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
Velox cloth tape is a quality product, and I use it on a few wheels... but it's thick, and sometimes that makes the tire fit way tighter than it needs to. Even if you don't plan to set a wheel up tubeless, "tubeless tape" or the like can be great because it's thin and strong. Try some Kapton 1 mil or Scotch 8898 or Tesa 4289 tape in 1/2" width, two layers, and see if that makes it easier to get tires on and off.
I've switched to the Kapton 1 mil (2 layers) and I often still have to use my Koolstop bead jack (have one in the tool kit and one in each saddle bag) for certain tire/rim combinations. Especially the first couple times the tires come on and off. Most recently, I had a huge struggle getting the same tires for the OP onto some Pacenti SL23 rims. Fortunately, that bike is on the rollers right now, so, if the tire flats, I won't have to make the call of shame.
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Old 09-15-21, 08:48 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by verktyg View Post

About the toughest rims I've mounted tires on are the old Ambrosio Elite 19 model.

Can confirm. They were so bad I got rid of them and bought new wheels.
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Old 09-16-21, 04:40 AM
  #33  
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IMO, this matter is not insurmountable. Have seen many an install at the same point as the pic in post #30. Metal core tire levers and oomph are your friends here and can definitely seat that tire. I’ve also found that letting a brand new tire bask in the sun for 20 minutes (a tip I learned on BF) can loosen it up considerably.
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Old 09-16-21, 06:25 AM
  #34  
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Years ago, my old Kinlin rims were very difficult. The center well was very shallow, so there wasn't much slack to pull the bead over the rim. Even with no tube installed and just one bead in the center, I couldn't slide the tire around to line up the label with the valve hole. That's really tight!

I struggled mounting tires, long sessions with sore fingers and mangled levers. Would I even be able to change a flat on the road?! I researched long steel levers and tire jacks.

But this method made it pretty easy.
I wrote up a detailed thread here (in 2010!): Tight tires howto

This is the key:
Use blunt end levers with the correct curve, like Pedro levers. Lift less than an inch of bead over the rim, slide the lever over, and repeat. It's surprisingly fast and effective, and low force on the lever.





Your wheels look a little more difficult. But this method should still work.



Last edited by rm -rf; 09-16-21 at 06:42 AM.
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Old 09-16-21, 06:33 AM
  #35  
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I use tubeless tape on my current wheels. It's very thin. When installing, it needs stretching/pulling and careful alignment across the rim to stay out of the bead hook area on the rim.

But it does stretch a lot into the spoke holes, and the tubes now have a corresponding bump. So I bought a couple of rolls of 10mm tubeless tape to use as an extra layer over the full width tape. It's barely wider than the spoke holes, so it's easy to apply and greatly reduced the spoke hole dips.
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Old 09-16-21, 08:19 AM
  #36  
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Wolber GTX, Matrix, TB14 are most troublesome with GP4000. I have yet to try the 5000s. Pre tubeless open pros and earlier mavics along with velocity Aeroheads are so easy that it may not be safe😉
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Old 09-16-21, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by himespau View Post
I've switched to the Kapton 1 mil (2 layers) and I often still have to use my Koolstop bead jack (have one in the tool kit and one in each saddle bag) for certain tire/rim combinations. Especially the first couple times the tires come on and off. Most recently, I had a huge struggle getting the same tires for the OP onto some Pacenti SL23 rims. Fortunately, that bike is on the rollers right now, so, if the tire flats, I won't have to make the call of shame.
Thanks for that note. I assume you know all the tricks, so GP5000s must be really really tight!
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Old 09-16-21, 09:58 AM
  #38  
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I just hope it loosens up a bit the way regular GP5000s do. The last time I did one of those that had been on and off a few times, I was able to do it with my bare hands (different rim though).
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Old 09-17-21, 10:44 AM
  #39  
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I just flew in from the living room and, boy, are my arms tired! Well, more my hands than my arms. Just finished up doing the first two wheels with the Kapton-style tape. Spent much time with alcohol and a microfiber scrubbing the inside of the rims and hope they are pristine in there enough to prevent slipping. On the front, the tape filled the 10mm depression in the rim perfectly. By the way, if the effort to trim the valve hole opening in the tape with an Xact-o knife is an indication, the tape is very resistant to puncture, etc. Then...

Originally Posted by tiger1964 View Post
While at it, I demounted the rear tire too. Rim is a Wolber, once demounted I see there's to discrete depressed center channel the entire inner surface is concave; impossible to measure well in there but about 16mm wide (20MM outside at the brake surface) In contrast to the front, on the inside surface the eyelets bell out and are exposed on the inner surface of the rime where in contact with the tube except for the presence of rim tape; those inner parts of the eyelets are 11.5mm wide. Oddly, while I had the 10mm Velox back there, no film tape.
Did not notice before but those belled out eyelet cups are offset some, every other spoke hole (I presume to better align the spoke hole with the hub flange they'll link up to, but at a millimeter or so, does that really help?) So, the tape would have to zip-zap a bit to be centered on every one of these "cups". Sp as I was going around twice, I ran the first layer to one side (by the way, the edge of those cups are almost under the 'hook' of the rim edge, sheesh!), then the second layer on the other side. So the outermost, eh, millimeter or so on each edge is only one layer. My alternative would be to stop, order a third size at 5/8" which at 15.88mm might really put the edge of the tape well under the tire bead, would that after tire seating -- maybe.

Originally Posted by Classtime View Post
Wolber GTX, Matrix, TB14 are most troublesome with GP4000. I have yet to try the 5000s.
Not 100% familiar with Wolber's various products (I used Wolber ("wobbler") tubulars once, long ago), but this is a rim marked GTA, not certain of the difference and if I had a choice, I might avoid using them again in the future just over the spoke hole issues.

Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
Thanks for that note. I assume you know all the tricks, so GP5000s must be really really tight!
My other uses of GP5000's have not been nearly so bad. But, while on each wheel I could get the first bead in the rim without tools, needed a tire lever to get the second one on. That said, MUCH better than when I first mounted them, using the Velox tape.
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Old 09-17-21, 11:45 AM
  #40  
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I also had trouble with a new set of Conti Ultra Sports. The wheels are new and I couldn't get the tires on without a struggle. I put on an older set of GatorSkins with out any trouble. The Ultra Sports were also hard to get on a pair of more vintage rims.
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Old 09-18-21, 11:49 AM
  #41  
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Valleys and Tape

Make certain you use the valley of the rim to reduce the width of the rim to be cleared. where possible. If the tire bead is on the shoulder you won't get the tire on.
Tape should not be covering the shoulder anywhere. If it does your tape is the wrong width.
Also an oversized tube will also thwart a smooth change as its extra bulk will get on the rim shoulder and/or fill the valley and thereby stop the tire bead sitting on the rim valley
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Old 09-18-21, 08:12 PM
  #42  
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I mounted my first GP5000 (blackwalls) on modern carbon rims, a few months ago, and don't recall them being any more difficult than others I've mounted, usually Gatorskins or Panaracer Paselas. I too use a tire jack from Koolstop for stubborn mounts. I don't carry it on rides. Its a little bulky and I've never needed it on the road. One day I did break my only tire lever (I now carry two). I had to use a screw driver to lever the Gatorskin off and also back on the rim. For a vintage skinwall look, try Panaracer Pasela PTs. They seem as durable as Gatorskins, and have a nice ride quality similar to GP5000s, though probably not as light weight. I've run 28c Paselas on three Eroica rides, including the gravel sections, and over 50 miles of gravel/dirt fire roads.

Pasela PTs 28s on my Raleigh Super Course
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Old 09-19-21, 04:36 AM
  #43  
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Anyone try gorilla tape? I have recently had good success with the stuff after reading that many people use it as a cheap tubeless alternative. I bought the 1" width and just trimmed it from the beginning at the proper width and now it rips off at that width. Super easy.
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Old 09-19-21, 03:35 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Jmpierce View Post
I also had trouble with a new set of Conti Ultra Sports. The wheels are new and I couldn't get the tires on without a struggle. I put on an older set of GatorSkins with out any trouble. The Ultra Sports were also hard to get on a pair of more vintage rims.
Same here. Ultra Sports are one of - if not the - hardest sets of folding-bead tires I've had to deal with in the last 5 years. Royal pain to get on & off, and hard to get seated evenly. They're as hard or harder than some wire-beaded tires I've used recently.
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Old 10-08-21, 03:13 PM
  #45  
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Checking back in, did a few rides on the two bikes with the new Kapton tape.... no flats. YET. So I am happy for now.

Originally Posted by Slightspeed View Post
I mounted my first GP5000 (blackwalls) on modern carbon rims,
Speaking of mixing old/new tech -- can I run tires designed to be tubeless on older wheels, and use a tube? I got an announcement of Continental's latest lighter/faster/better 5000, and it's tubeless.
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Old 10-25-21, 01:04 PM
  #46  
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I've never been so happy to get a flat in my life.About 3 miles from home, felt the all-too-familiar thumb, thump, thump. So I pulled over and right after I got the rear wheel off -- saw a large staple, as in those used in cartons, sticking through the tread. Yippee! No rim tape problems! A few minutes to swap it out, and I felt so confident that I continued on the ride despite that being my last spare tube.

Originally Posted by tiger1964 View Post
Speaking of mixing old/new tech -- can I run tires designed to be tubeless on older wheels, and use a tube? I got an announcement of Continental's latest lighter/faster/better 5000, and it's tubeless.
I'm still interested in knowing this, if anyone has experience.
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Old 10-25-21, 02:07 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by tiger1964 View Post
I've never been so happy to get a flat in my life.About 3 miles from home, felt the all-too-familiar thumb, thump, thump. So I pulled over and right after I got the rear wheel off -- saw a large staple, as in those used in cartons, sticking through the tread. Yippee! No rim tape problems! A few minutes to swap it out, and I felt so confident that I continued on the ride despite that being my last spare tube.



I'm still interested in knowing this, if anyone has experience.
conti offers the 5000 in tubless and tubed versions if I planned on using tubes I would go with that version (actually I did am running gp5000 with conti race lite tubes.... 1400 miles so far no flats (though that just jinxed me) mavic open pro rims, 28mm conti at 100/95 front back...i am 240
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Old 10-25-21, 11:24 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by tiger1964 View Post
Speaking of mixing old/new tech -- can I run tires designed to be tubeless on older wheels, and use a tube? I got an announcement of Continental's latest lighter/faster/better 5000, and it's tubeless.
Tubeless ready tires work fine on non-tubeless rims.
​​Tubeless ready tires typically weigh more than tube alternatives. As mentioned, the gp5k comes in tube and tubeless ready models.
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Old 10-26-21, 06:12 AM
  #49  
tiger1964 
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Originally Posted by squirtdad View Post
conti offers the 5000 in tubless and tubed versions if I planned on using tubes I would go with that version (actually I did am running gp5000 with conti race lite tubes.... 1400 miles so far no flats (though that just jinxed me) mavic open pro rims, 28mm conti at 100/95 front back...i am 240
I am running 5000's now on two bikes, both the black- and tan- wall versions. I should have kept the e-mail from Bike Tires Direct advertising a lighter/faster version, in tubeless. Now, if they make a lighter/faster version in tubed as well, then...
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Old 10-26-21, 07:15 AM
  #50  
mstateglfr 
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Originally Posted by tiger1964 View Post
I am running 5000's now on two bikes, both the black- and tan- wall versions. I should have kept the e-mail from Bike Tires Direct advertising a lighter/faster version, in tubeless. Now, if they make a lighter/faster version in tubed as well, then...
The new tubeless version is lighter/faster than the old tubeless version.
But thats aside from the tube version. The tubeless weigh more than tubed version, for example.
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