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Is it Reasonable to Expect that I Can Put These Shimano DT Shifter on this Miyata?

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Is it Reasonable to Expect that I Can Put These Shimano DT Shifter on this Miyata?

Old 09-07-21, 09:49 AM
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Harold74
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Is it Reasonable to Expect that I Can Put These Shimano DT Shifters on this Miyata?

Existing Bike = 1992 Miyata 1000 LT, currently with 7-speed Shimano bar end shifters. Triple chainring.

Proposed DT Shifters = Shimano 600 SL-6400 7-speed. I'll pay a pretty penny for them NOS.

Question: when the snow falls, and I stop riding the bike to refurbish it, is it reasonable to expect that I'll be able to mount those shifters onto the braze ons that currently support the cable stop things? I would think so but I've been burned plenty in the past by minor compatibility issues.

Additional information in attempt to head some digressions off at the pass:

1) Yes, I know that bar ends are great for a number of reasons.

2) Yes, I could remove the cable stop and measure the braze-ons. I'm not going to until winter, however, and I need to make my DT shifter purchase before that.

3) Yes, I probably could remove the cable stop without even removing the cabling and measure the braze-ons. I'm not going to do that eithr, however, because I've not been able to with the application of a reasonable amount of force.

Thanks in advance for any help offered.


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Old 09-07-21, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Harold74 View Post
is it reasonable to expect that I'll be able to mount those shifters onto the braze ons..?
Yes.
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Old 09-07-21, 10:54 AM
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Do it.
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Old 09-07-21, 11:23 AM
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Going by your photos, it appears you have a large frame so you might want to give some consideration to how far you will need to reach to operate the DT shifters. When I switched to DT shifters on my 25" frame it definitely took some getting used to the new shifter position. Helps to have long arms.
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Old 09-07-21, 11:33 AM
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Thanks for the advice rmaconda. It is a large frame and I do have disproportionately long arms. I just finished refurbishing a Nishiki one size larger with downtube shifters and I've been loving it so far. I won't be doing very aggressive, or very long, rides on this bike which facilitates a few compromises when it comes to function. I'll be hanging on to the original bar ends though, don't worry about that. It seems to be difficult and expensive to procure indexed 7 speed shifters these days which is part of what's driving my interest in these shifters. I like friction shifting too but I'm planning to stick with indexed shifting on this bike for a while yet. I get the impression that 8 speed stuff could also be made to work but even making that compromise (nearly equal pull ratios / spacers) doesn't appeal to me.
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Old 09-07-21, 11:46 AM
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My experience with DT shifters is that when I was a teenager, somewhere back in the mists of time, taking my hands off the bar and reaching down to shift felt really risky and unstable. Since then, I've ridden thousands of miles with brifters and as a result I'm so much more comfortable on the bike that taking my hand off the bar to shift is no big deal. Of course it's less convenient than brifters or even bar ends, but it's no big deal. If you can reach for a bottle, you can shift, especially with SIS.
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Old 09-07-21, 12:01 PM
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Should go right on. Lone caveat is possible re-contouring of the silver part if the item purchased was shaped for larger OD aluminum tubing.
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Old 09-07-21, 12:34 PM
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Don’t know about fit, but my 89 LT came with 7 speed indexed downtube shifters. They are first generation 105 or 1050 perhaps. They do work wonderfully and click the gears very reliably. Reaching down doesn’t feel awkward, and since it indexes, there isn’t much concentration needed. That 600 set may be of the same era.

As an aside, I too have seen all the praise for bar ends, but so far haven’t felt the urge. The extra cabling just seems like too much for me.
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Old 09-07-21, 01:37 PM
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Another question while I've got the attention of the right people: is it reasonable to also assume that the FD shifter can handle a triple? It seems like most of the friction shifters can.
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Old 09-07-21, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Harold74 View Post
Another question while I've got the attention of the right people: is it reasonable to also assume that the FD shifter can handle a triple? It seems like most of the friction shifters can.
That is the question. It should but it might require an uncomfortable pivot of the left shifter. Those shifters are awesome, but no better than the other 7 speed indexing shifters from Shimano of that era...105, Exage (S434), R400s, RX-100s...my favorite are the 1055s, and the Exage 500EX (SL-A500...I think it has the nubs)

I have heard the Exage sport can be used with 7, but not sure about that.
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Old 09-07-21, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
Should go right on. Lone caveat is possible re-contouring of the silver part if the item purchased was shaped for larger OD aluminum tubing.
This may eventually be a subject of another thread but I'm also considering putting 9sp DT shifters on my 2000 Airborne Zeppelin Titanium bike. What I struggle with, however, is that the down tube is actually ovalized. So my questions with respect to that are:

1) Can the curved bits generally be profiled as you suggest?

2) Are the curved bits actually necessary for the function of the shifters? Can they be omitted if one does not mind the look of that?

3) Is the curved spacer geometry critical to the functioning of the shifters? If it is, is the strategy then to profile the spacers without compromising any depth at the apex of the curve?

The photo below shows the bike in question and you can see the gap created by the oval tubing. And that will only get worse with a larger diameter thing in contact with the downtube.

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Old 09-07-21, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Harold74 View Post
This may eventually be a subject of another thread but I'm also considering putting 9sp DT shifters on my 2000 Airborne Zeppelin Titanium bike. What I struggle with, however, is that the down tube is actually ovalized. So my questions with respect to that are:

1) Can the curved bits generally be profiled as you suggest? Judiciously These are notoriously fragile

2) Are the curved bits actually necessary for the function of the shifters? Can they be omitted if one does not mind the look of that? Required for indexing

3) Is the curved spacer geometry critical to the functioning of the shifters? If it is, is the strategy then to profile the spacers without compromising any depth at the apex of the curve? I don't believe the curve has any functionality beyond esthetics of fit.

The photo below shows the bike in question and you can see the gap created by the oval tubing. And that will only get worse with a larger diameter thing in contact with the downtube.
See above
Shimano offered a number of different "curved bits" for different applications.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...B5pSHw7jzenyKh

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...QMNRdCe5i87s1u

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Old 09-07-21, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Harold74 View Post
Proposed DT Shifters = Shimano 600 SL-6400 7-speed. I'll pay a pretty penny for them NOS.


Seven speed 6400 series shifters are not uncommon shifters.

They shouldn't be too expensive- even NOS- however... you might want to save yourself some money and find a nice, clean used set. NOS is all cool and stuff, but the second you mount it- it's used. Then you have this brand new stuff on your used bike sticking out like a sore thumb.

Good luck with your project and don't forget to post pix in the M1000 thread: Show Your Miyata 1000!
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Old 09-07-21, 08:08 PM
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So I rode the Miyata this evening and I was faux downtube shifting to try to get a feel for it. It turns out that, when I'm in the drops and I reach down, my fingers float to the same elevation as my tire side walls. I actually grazed the treads with my finger tips a couple of times on accident.

This got me thinking: is there any danger with downtube shifters that I'll get my fingers stuck in the fork above the front tire and lock the bike up that way in the most horrific manner possible? Or is that not a legitimate concern? Of all the potential things not to like about downtube shifting, I've yet to hear anyone voice concern over this. I take that as an encouraging sign that I'm probably just being paranoid but would value confirmation on that assumption.
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Old 09-07-21, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Harold74 View Post
So I rode the Miyata this evening and I was faux downtube shifting to try to get a feel for it. It turns out that, when I'm in the drops and I reach down, my fingers float to the same elevation as my tire side walls. I actually grazed the treads with my finger tips a couple of times on accident.

This got me thinking: is there any danger with downtube shifters that I'll get my fingers stuck in the fork above the front tire and lock the bike up that way in the most horrific manner possible? Or is that not a legitimate concern? Of all the potential things not to like about downtube shifting, I've yet to hear anyone voice concern over this. I take that as an encouraging sign that I'm probably just being paranoid but would value confirmation on that assumption.
Is there a danger for locking the fork, probably not...breaking a finger, remote but possible...Itjust wouldn’t lock the fork, just mangle the finger.

...joking aside, some of us would run the back of our glove against the tire behind the fork, or in front of the front brake, to remove glass if we ran through a pile.

Never have I significantly overshot the shifters...never.
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Old 09-08-21, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by The Golden Boy View Post
Good luck with your project and don't forget to post pix in the M1000 thread: Show Your Miyata 1000!
I'm hoping to do exactly that, although I'm not sure how well my build will be received. My goal is to make the bike as mechanically awesome as possible (according to me) rather than pay any particular homage to the storied history of the Miyata 1000. Swaps I'm making:

1) New Sugino crankset rather than the Biopace which I've actually come to respect.

2) Shimano CX50 cantilevers rather than the shiny wing brakes that I've actually come to respect.

3) Probably a weirdly set up, modern, short cage 105 derailleur rather than the nice, but tired, Deore that's on there.

4) An ugly, but brand new, 7 sped black cassette.

5) A titanium seat post just because I have one without a home and maybe it will shave some weight and dampen some vibrations.

6) Maybe a sealed bottom bracket, not sure yet.

7) Swap the bar ends for downtubes which is really heading the opposite direction: form over function (in my opinion).

The heart wants what it wants. A previous owner tried to scrape the decals off and it didn't go very well. Moreover, the pastel colors look a little too Miami Vice era to ever be vintage sexy in my estimation. So I don't see the bike ever getting super sexy. That said, I expect that it will be the one best performing Miyata 1000's on the road. And that's what I'm gunning for. For me, it's still a rider, not a show'er. Some of the nice features of the bike:

- 700c wheels.
- Ability to take tires up to 38 mm, I think.
- STB chromoly all over.
- Vertical dropouts rather than horizontal.
- Sturdy, integrated derailleur hanger.

I loves it.

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