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Huret Jubilee capacity question.

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Huret Jubilee capacity question.

Old 09-16-21, 10:26 AM
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52telecaster
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Huret Jubilee capacity question.

My new to me Raleigh competition came with incredibly cool huret derailleurs. It also came with the 3 pin t.a. crank, which due to the scarcity of rings will be repurposed on my super course 3 speed. It's 42 tooth ring will be excellent.

However I now am using a cyclotourist crank with 26, 46 chainrings. The front mech handles the two rings extremely well. The rear mech shifts through a 14-28 6 speed freewheel beautifully. With the current chainlength I can do 46-28 just fine but I would hesitate to shorten the chain any more. My real issue is that the chain wrap will only work well with the three largest rear cogs on the 26 tooth chainring. Is it prohibitively expensive to get a long cage for this derailleur?


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Old 09-16-21, 11:01 AM
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Old 09-16-21, 11:07 AM
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Lovely illustration.
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Old 09-16-21, 11:32 AM
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Old 09-16-21, 12:15 PM
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Huret Jubilees are notably very light, very beautiful, very fragile, strongly in demand, and very expensive. If I had your bike I would treat it with kid gloves and be careful not to compromise the specifications. The derailleurs will be hard to replace.

Based on the pics shared by Juvela, I think there are basically two versions: short cage and long cage. Based on your photo, I think your bike has the short cage, or "racing bike" version. The limit for the short cage seems to be freewheel 13-24 and chainset 26-53. The capacity (ability to wrap up the chain) is (53-26)+(24-13) = 38 teeth. For the long cage version it's (53-26)+(28-13)=42 teeth. I'm a little doubtful about these capacities, but that's how the arithmetic works, if I'm interpreting correctly. Your gearing is (46-26)+(28-14)=34 teeth, so your gearing should not kill the derailleurs in terms of over stretching it. But if you don't have to shorten the chain, (the tension is adequate on small-small) I would not do it.
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Old 09-16-21, 12:35 PM
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-----

the Sutherland values for the short cage are 24T large cog and 30T wrap

yes, the values posted on the Huret catalogue page are misleading


-----
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Old 09-16-21, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Road Fan View Post
Huret Jubilees are notably very light, very beautiful, very fragile, strongly in demand, and very expensive. If I had your bike I would treat it with kid gloves and be careful not to compromise the specifications. The derailleurs will be hard to replace.

Based on the pics shared by Juvela, I think there are basically two versions: short cage and long cage. Based on your photo, I think your bike has the short cage, or "racing bike" version. The limit for the short cage seems to be freewheel 13-24 and chainset 26-53. The capacity (ability to wrap up the chain) is (53-26)+(24-13) = 38 teeth. For the long cage version it's (53-26)+(28-13)=42 teeth. I'm a little doubtful about these capacities, but that's how the arithmetic works, if I'm interpreting correctly. Your gearing is (46-26)+(28-14)=34 teeth, so your gearing should not kill the derailleurs in terms of over stretching it. But if you don't have to shorten the chain, (the tension is adequate on small-small) I would not do it.
13-24 must be extremely conservative. It shifts really well into the 28. I have done some reading and am aware that this is delicate and somewhat valuable. I am pondering putting a suntour on it but I know that will be complicated by the fact that the dropout is made for huret.
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Old 09-16-21, 12:39 PM
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Also I never use small-small. My main focus is to not have big, big destroy anything.
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Old 09-17-21, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by juvela View Post
-----

the Sutherland values for the short cage are 24T large cog and 30T wrap

yes, the values posted on the Huret catalogue page are misleading


-----
Thank you for sharing the Sutherland values. I keep recalling that he stated in his early pages that much of his data is not confirmed by the anufacturer or copied from other wise authoritative sources but was obtained more "practically" (my word, not Howard Sutherland's). I've used the book quite a lot for BB and BB part interchangability, and I have not found anything which does not match my own work.

As far as using the Huret literature as a reference, based on the usual practical skepticism on this and other forums (they say 28? HAAA! I routinely use 32!!), I recently saw something that makes me return to respecting Huret. My Duopar Eco on my 610 Trek Mule has been shifting 46/30 and 13-34 riding on the trainer. I recently re-lubed the chain and saw the cage pulling out in big-big, to a degree I did not like. I saw that Berto quoted Huret that maxsprocket and max capacity are both 36 and I was using a 34 big cog. I changed the freewheel out for first one with max 32 and max 30 and both shifted far better. But both freewheels needed overhauls, so I went to my 13-28 for road use. And I'm a lot more confident that I'm not likely to bend my DuoparEco if I flub up some shifts. So I recommend caution with even more fragile parts, like members of the Jubilee product line.

Lest one may think that all Huret were superlight and fragile, consider the once ubiquitous Alvit, which invaded out shores on the late '60s Varsinental family of bikes, sometimes with French labelling and sometimes as Schwinn-Approved. They certainly met the standards for durability, but of my friends' bikes there were very few that worked well as road bike shifters on a road bike, or a 10-speed Stingray. I recall the comment they work terribly, but they neer really break, so it's hard to justify replacement based on "it's too old."
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Old 09-17-21, 12:42 PM
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I think I am going to adapt a suntour and save the fancy stuff. The derailleurs are working well as long as I don't ask too much of them. I have ordered a 44 outer ring for the crank which will drop my top gear to 85 inches. Plenty for this old man. That should make it so I can use all 6 gears in the big ring and the 4 biggest in the small until I figure out a suntour adaptation.
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Old 09-17-21, 01:30 PM
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I looked into converting my short Jubile to long. The long cage plates (2233 and 2238) are sometimes available on eBay (though not at the moment), and you also would need the return spring (2239) which is: https://www.ebay.com/itm/28433507994...item4233b10204
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Old 09-17-21, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by jeirvine View Post
I looked into converting my short Jubile to long. The long cage plates (2233 and 2238) are sometimes available on eBay (though not at the moment), and you also would need the return spring (2239) which is: https://www.ebay.com/itm/28433507994...item4233b10204
very cool
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Old 09-17-21, 07:47 PM
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Just checked out a topographic map of Peoria. I'm thinking 13T-22T and 47T-50T.
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Old 09-17-21, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by tiger1964 View Post
Just checked out a topographic map of Peoria. I'm thinking 13T-22T and 47T-50T.
for you maybe.

Actually I just modified a washer to make the dropout work for an old suntour derailleur.
Most of the roads up and down the bluff were made with no consideration for how steep they are. I am in the older part on the east bluff and routinely drag my 65 yo out of shape body up and down the hills. I did my closest valley to bluff route recently with a 66" gear on a three speed clunker but it was no fun. Low gears for me baby!
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Old 09-17-21, 10:29 PM
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Does this Raleigh Competition have an Huret drop out? There were Jubilee derailleurs that were intended for use with what is now the standard stop placement on the Drop outís mount, but my Super Tourer (apparently the same production line for the frames) has an Huret drop out. With that Suntour VGT, it looks like the more traditional stop placement.
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Old 09-17-21, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by elcraft View Post
Does this Raleigh Competition have an Huret drop out? There were Jubilee derailleurs that were intended for use with what is now the standard stop placement on the Drop outís mount, but my Super Tourer (apparently the same production line for the frames) has an Huret drop out. With that Suntour VGT, it looks like the more traditional stop placement.
it is a huret dropout with the 4 o'clock stop. I made a washer that hits that stop and creates a 7 o'clock stop. With that washer I can now use any modern style derailleur.
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Old 09-19-21, 11:22 AM
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If you want an option for the Huret dropout, there's always the Huret Challenger rear mech--- I've found it to be smooth-shifting and durable on my Super Course MkII, so now I grab them whenever I come across them. The Jubilee is beautiful to look at, but they seem kind of finicky when it comes to actually shifting!


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Old 09-19-21, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by no67el View Post
If you want an option for the Huret dropout, there's always the Huret Challenger rear mech--- I've found it to be smooth-shifting and durable on my Super Course MkII, so now I grab them whenever I come across them. The Jubilee is beautiful to look at, but they seem kind of finicky when it comes to actually shifting!


did that come in a long cage?
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Old 09-19-21, 12:57 PM
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Hmm... good point: not to my knowledge. However the lower pivot point is adjustable to handle either 13-24 or 13-28t max cog sizes. The stated range for the front is 36-53.
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Old 09-19-21, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by 52telecaster View Post
did that come in a long cage?
No, but the lower knuckle has two cage-mounting holes, one for 24T max, one for 28T.
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Old 09-19-21, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by 52telecaster View Post
Tangential: you know you're missing a couple of crankbolts, right?
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Old 09-28-21, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
Tangential: you know you're missing a couple of crankbolts, right?
I run three of six bolts for the inner ring. I've done that for years. I may be dumb.
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Old 09-28-21, 02:54 AM
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Saving Weight With Less Chainring Bolts

Originally Posted by 52telecaster View Post
I run three of six bolts for the inner ring. I've done that for years. I may be dumb.
"Hey watch this" "Hold my beer"

I've always carried spare TA chainring bolts - both the bolts for mounting the large ring to the crankarm and the ones for the smaller rings to the large one. They are sooo fragile, I've had a number of them break on and off the road....

Also I've ovalized a number of TA 26T chainrings and have since switched to 28T or 30T which solved the problem.

Back to the topic at hand.

From the 1940's maybe even the 1930's the standard setup for touring gears was a 13/14 to 24/26T freewheel with a 26T granny gear chainring and a 46T-50T large chainring. This was true especially with Huret rear derailleurs which were designed to wrap a lot of chain from the chainrings but not a big gap on the FW cogs.

With the Bike Boom Fad came the advent of "alpine gears" - 14-28T FWs with 40T-52T or 42T-52T chainrings. Simplex RDs with sprung upper pivots could easily handle those sprockets. The Huret Allvit RDs, not so well. The Sveltos less so.

The Jubilee RDs were a take off of the Svelto design and meant for a 24T or 26T maximum size freewheel.

There were a lot of variations in the Huret Jubilee RDs with mostly poorly or undocumented changes. Even Todson the US Huret importer/distributor were usually unaware of the changes.

When they first came out (hit the streets) in 1973, there were 2 version of Jubilees: the most common ones were designed to mount on Huret dropouts with proprietary hangers, a little later they produced ones for Campy style hangers.



Those for Campy style hangers were listed as "...sur patte de cadre italienne" or just "patte italienne" which meant nothing to cyclists in the US.

Also, there were NO markings on the derailleurs indicating the Ref number.



Huret dropouts



Campy dropouts



no67el mentioned the Huret Challenger RDs. They first appeared on a few Raleighs in 1973. The Huret Allvits had such a poor reputation plus the Challenger bodies were made of stamped sheet metal and looked tinny so we just ignored them.

Jump ahead to 2007, I picked up a 1974 Motobecane Grand Jubile frame that was rescued from the dump. The person who sold it to me threw in this 1st generation Challenger RD. I was skeptical but gave it a try. It's the smoothest shifting friction RD I've ever used. That's a 13-30t 7 speed FW. The Jubilee shift levers help too.



Anyone curious? PM me I have a bunch of them.

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Old 09-28-21, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by tiger1964 View Post
Just checked out a topographic map of Peoria. I'm thinking 13T-22T and 47T-50T.
you haven't been on Brimfield-Jubilee road!



this isn't the worst, though.... it's just the easiest to get a photo of.
My commute used to go up a 14% grade, going up out of the Illinois river valley (on Cedar Hills Drive). To some degree, this is typical of many river towns.

I'm thinking that Russell's plan to use a SunTour might be best. My only question is about whether the derailleur hanger is compatible.
edit: I see that this has been addressed....

Steve, also in Peoria
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Old 09-28-21, 07:28 AM
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Jubilee long cage on my Competition

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