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A Queen For a Knight - 1982 Trek 720/728 - 25.5"

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A Queen For a Knight - 1982 Trek 720/728 - 25.5"

Old 09-30-21, 05:57 PM
  #26  
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I may have missed it upthread- bit what fenders are these?
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Old 09-30-21, 06:39 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by polymorphself View Post
I may have missed it upthread- bit what fenders are these?
Oh, I probably just forgot to mention them! PDW Road Plus (metal/alloy) fenders. Made for 30mm max width tires. They make different Road or All Road or Full Metal Fenders as this model may be discontinued. Those fit wider tires and have a wider flat/top surface.
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Old 09-30-21, 06:52 PM
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Ok, enough faffing about, let's see some final fender results here!

These PDW fenders, especially in their matte black finish, are quite understated. Many fenders visually announce that they have been mounted to your bike. These don't, and sometimes it feels a bit unofficial in that regard. But then I look at the bike from other angles and it's very clear that they are there, and that they look great. PDW makes quality fenders, and that helps a lot when working to get them mounted and in achieving a good fender line. Even incomplete, this 720 frameset exudes elegance. And further to that end, I just received an email that my decals for this frameset are in production! I would think that they would arrive some time next week, so we'll see, of course. Very excited about that!


As you can see just below the caliper arm, the fender is as high as it will go. This ruffled my fender line purity and matching endeavor, though only slightly. The actual downside is that now the Tektro caliper arms don't open up or flare when either of the quick releases are employed (at the caliper or the brake lever) as there is nowhere for them to go. That sucks, but it is reality. I'll have to install the tire either fully deflated or only partially inflated. Oh well.


Rear brake situation is fantastic, and if I had to have either the front or back wheel installation/removal operation be easy, I'd rather the back.


Official chain stay mount photo.
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Old 09-30-21, 09:40 PM
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Wow! Understated is an understatement. Those fenders are covert. If it weren't for the mudflaps hanging down, I'm not sure I'd notice there were fenders until looking at the photo for the 5th time. If fender/tire fit beneath the brakes was a concern, what led you to choose side-pulls over center-pulls (which I understand to provide a bit more clearance)?
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Old 09-30-21, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Rooney View Post
Wow! Understated is an understatement. Those fenders are covert. If it weren't for the mudflaps hanging down, I'm not sure I'd notice there were fenders until looking at the photo for the 5th time. If fender/tire fit beneath the brakes was a concern, what led you to choose side-pulls over center-pulls (which I understand to provide a bit more clearance)?
Covert, indeed!

The side-pull path, specifically the dual-pivot side-pull path, was chosen for a few reasons. I would have preferred that the seller, who built this bike up, used or bought the Dia-Compe Gran Compe 450s that Trek spec'd when delivering a complete bike. As it stood, the only factory spec'd components on the bike when I bought it were the Tange Levin headset and Huret Duopar rear derailleur. Brake calipers were Dia-Compe single-pivot side-pulls. I'd probably be using the GC 450s due to their beautiful aesthetic and likely decent performance (that's just a guess though, at least for me), not to mention fender clearance. GC 450's are very expensive now, single-pivot calipers for winter/rain riding are much too weak, thus the venerable dual-pivot design was chosen. I've had experience with a few: Shimano's R650 and Tektro's R539. Both did well. I couldn't find any R650s, having sold mine many months ago. The R539s wouldn't work aesthetically with the 720 (or vintage anything, really, aside from a racier frame/build), and I came across the R737s.

Every dual pivot caliper has a different movement range due to pivot placements, and one never really knows how it's going to be until they get it in their hands and install it. I think my Shimno R650s did a better job of not having their arms drop into "fender space", though the 'tunnel' they made was a bit more snug, so it's probably a wash. At the end of the day, I have a beautiful set of very strong dual-pivots that allow me to run fenders without much hassle. It's two notches away from perfect (1: barely disallowed a perfect fender line 2: require tire to be deflated to install/remove) and certainly something I can more than work around considering it very much meets the primary objectives of looking great (and appropriate) and stopping well.
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Old 10-01-21, 12:33 AM
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Old 10-01-21, 02:10 AM
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Originally Posted by RiddleOfSteel View Post
Ok, enough faffing about, let's see some final fender results here!

These PDW fenders, especially in their matte black finish, are quite understated. Many fenders visually announce that they have been mounted to your bike. These don't, and sometimes it feels a bit unofficial in that regard. But then I look at the bike from other angles and it's very clear that they are there, and that they look great. PDW makes quality fenders, and that helps a lot when working to get them mounted and in achieving a good fender line. Even incomplete, this 720 frameset exudes elegance. And further to that end, I just received an email that my decals for this frameset are in production! I would think that they would arrive some time next week, so we'll see, of course. Very excited about that!
At first glance I thought you just attached mud flaps to your tires. Is it just a trick of the camera or are they really that close to your tires?
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Old 10-01-21, 02:49 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Andy_K View Post
At first glance I thought you just attached mud flaps to your tires. Is it just a trick of the camera or are they really that close to your tires?
Haha, no tricks! They're about 1/4" off the tire (from the inside), maybe a little more. The dull interior lighting doesn't help things either. On my 620, with its notably higher fork crown and brake bridge, I did perhaps 1/8" more, and that extra distance was critical in making the bike look like it had fenders more obviously.

BTW, aside from the saddle and bar-end shifters (ok, cantis as well), the band (shown here) will be back together. This was a really nice blue. I still wanted more braking power though. I'm happy this will be on the 720 now, and I'm still happy I have the 620 built as I do. Memories, eh?
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Old 10-01-21, 05:43 AM
  #34  
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Those fenders look great, Dan. I would worry a bit about taking up a small branch or stick in the rear, however. Perhaps they’re flexible enough to just spit out any debris?
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Old 10-01-21, 06:11 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
Those fenders look great, Dan. I would worry a bit about taking up a small branch or stick in the rear, however. Perhaps they’re flexible enough to just spit out any debris?
Thanks! I'll simply have to be fastidiously observant when riding to avoid large debris, which I've done before with these fenders and with PDWs race fenders (a tighter fit). City/pavement riding makes this pretty easy, as does my innate disinclination to ride over fallen trees/tree elements of any size. We shall see, though!
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Old 10-03-21, 01:58 AM
  #36  
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Over the last day or so, I got the 720 to about the furthest point, build-wise, as I can as I don't want to have a crankset and front derailleur and bottle cage obstructing my access to the seat tube, both for centering the large seat tube decal (and 531 decal at the top), but also for applying it. I wrapped the bars in Brooks synthetic tape, mounted the Dura-Ace 7700 GS rear derailleur, as well as the Dura-Ace 7900 10-speed down tube shifters. It keeps looking better! I am also choosing to employ my tripleized 7400 Dura-Ace crankset for it's 39T middle ring (and resulting lesser chain demand than a 45T) and also the fact that the Specialized crankset has a 2mm hairline crack at the edge of the webbing between the spider and the arm (a common occurance). Thank you @Dfrost for making sure I take a look and address it!

Since receiving the news that my decal order is "shipped" (a shipping label has been created, item yet to be received), that means it shouldn't be too long until it finds its way to me. Thus I can wait a little bit...I guess...

Classy, covert fenders and all. I'll get a rear three-quarter perspective here soon to make it a bit more obvious that they're there.


I ran some 2" wide painter's tape down the center line of the seat tube (carefully!) so as to aid future decal alignment and application steps (done by removing the tape in the application area--I have a plan of action).


Little more of a close-up. Hard to see due to paint color, lighting, and tape color. Can't wait for decals!
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Old 10-05-21, 10:40 PM
  #37  
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Decals officially slated to arrive Saturday. Just, you know, in case you were wanting some sort of definitive date. I'm also looking to pick up a project 25.5" Trek 420 to de-grubbify, shine up, replace componentry (with new Sora or Claris, hopefully), and send out with a new lease on life. That's on Saturday as well. Soon..
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Old 10-06-21, 12:13 AM
  #38  
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Wow! That cleaned up amazingly well, and the build looks very promising.

One tiny suggestion in case you haven't considered it already. On your rear fender mount assembly, Loctite could be a very good friend (you probably don't even need to ask how I know. ).
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Old 10-06-21, 09:03 AM
  #39  
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I have that same frame in the smaller 20.5" size, same year, one of the first ones stamped. The frame needs alignment, but I need to see about paint and decals. I understand teh Imron used on those days is regarded as kind of unsafe these days. I should also work up the smaller frame version of the numerical dorkism so ably displayed by Riddle.
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Old 10-08-21, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Road Fan View Post
I have that same frame in the smaller 20.5" size, same year, one of the first ones stamped. The frame needs alignment, but I need to see about paint and decals. I understand teh Imron used on those days is regarded as kind of unsafe these days. I should also work up the smaller frame version of the numerical dorkism so ably displayed by Riddle.
Does yours have a Cinelli BB shell? It seemed the smaller frames got it, but not the scaffolding sizes (or maybe just the 25.5"). I was thinking that my 720 is the oldest bike/frameset I've owned that had its shifter cable routing run underneath the BB shell. My frame was the last batch of 25.5" frames for 1982, right at the end of the model year. They rattled 100 of them off right then, and then it was off to the 1983s.
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Old 10-08-21, 09:38 PM
  #41  
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A little bit earlier, I mentioned how I was having a difficult time finding a middle chainring that wasn't of the half-step setup as I don't need one. I don't know if Specialized ever (had) made 110 BCD chainrings smaller than 44T in this era. Sugino rings, sure, but not Specialized-branded. Finish type, gloss, design, and color of anodizing are all critical factors, to me at least, when trying to find a suitable replacement chainring in the 34-40T range. No luck on CL or Ebay, especially as photos are hard to come by. Specialites T.A. rings are beautiful for an understandably higher price. I think my crank arms aren't in as pristine a shape to properly match the T.A. rings, so going new is out (and my wallet thanks me). So that means digging through the bins at a few LBS's around here to find 110/74 triples that I could buy and then use their middle ring. Lo and behold, a very tired-looking Suntour XC LTD crankset appears with mismatching chainrings. Too much money (for a crankset in that condition) later, I have a crankset with an extremely promising 38T middle ring buried under a good bit of dirt and grease. After some cleaning and polishing, we have an essential dead-ringer, and I now have a nicely-stepped triple!

I now have to change bottom brackets... I still need to file the spider-to-arm molding edge as there are tiny hairline cracks (and I hope they can be addressed sufficiently!), but we have a ready to rock crankset now. 49/38/28

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Old 10-09-21, 05:32 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by RiddleOfSteel View Post
A little bit earlier, I mentioned how I was having a difficult time finding a middle chainring that wasn't of the half-step setup as I don't need one. I don't know if Specialized ever (had) made 110 BCD chainrings smaller than 44T in this era.
They're definitely hard to come by, but out there, with the 40T being the rarest. I've seen a few 38T and more of 36T. I THINK because of mountain bike setups like 48/38/28 and 46/36/26. They're usually in pretty rough shape though, probably from all that rough trail shifting.

I've had to make the same non-matching compromises for my preferred setups of 50/40/30. Mostly Suginos, some Specialized, some SR, etc. Your's turned out great!

Did your decals arrive today?

I had a hiccup with my 520. Brakes installed perfectly, ran cables, etc, and headed out for some test riding to find an annoying "pulse" when braking. On closer inspection, it turns out the 700c wheelset I had hanging around has a deep/wide gauge on one side of the front rim. I'm bummed I didn't catch that in the never ending parts shuffle, but it is what it is. The upside is that it's pushed me to build up a wheelset from scratch, something I've wanted to try for a few years. I'll probably barrow a wheelset from another bike just to get more test rides in and dial everything in though.

Onward!
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Old 10-10-21, 12:50 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by squarenoise View Post
They're definitely hard to come by, but out there, with the 40T being the rarest. I've seen a few 38T and more of 36T. I THINK because of mountain bike setups like 48/38/28 and 46/36/26. They're usually in pretty rough shape though, probably from all that rough trail shifting.

I've had to make the same non-matching compromises for my preferred setups of 50/40/30. Mostly Suginos, some Specialized, some SR, etc. Your's turned out great!

Did your decals arrive today?

I had a hiccup with my 520. Brakes installed perfectly, ran cables, etc, and headed out for some test riding to find an annoying "pulse" when braking. On closer inspection, it turns out the 700c wheelset I had hanging around has a deep/wide gauge on one side of the front rim. I'm bummed I didn't catch that in the never ending parts shuffle, but it is what it is. The upside is that it's pushed me to build up a wheelset from scratch, something I've wanted to try for a few years. I'll probably barrow a wheelset from another bike just to get more test rides in and dial everything in though.

Onward!
Thanks! Alas, my decals did not arrive today. Sigh...I was at least able to pick up the 1989 Trek 420 (25.5" aka 64cm actually) I had a local non-profit LBS I volunteer at set aside for me. Excited about that, though it will be a slow burner of a project. Used components are certainly thinner on the ground than in years past--no big surprise there.

Finding a gouge in a wheel sucks. A pulse that can't be removed is even worse. I second your motion to get another wheelset underneath the 520 to get it moving. That may have to happen with me and the 720, just with the Specialized crankset as it needs the cracks addressed. At least the BB for the 7400 crankset is still installed. It will be a rainy day tomorrow, but I'll be busy being out and about. No real progress will happen until Monday or Tuesday. Oh well!
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Old 10-13-21, 02:55 AM
  #44  
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Well, the USPS took their sweet time and I was the eager recipient of a package of decals at 9:00pm tonight (ok, it's the next "morning" as I type this--night owl life). Let's measure centerlines and put my eye and taped seat tube center line to good use!

I obtained the centerline of the decals, that centerline being not only the white of the "TREK" script but also the large black 'shadow' or offset. Vertically, the decal was set at the halfway point between the underside of the top tube (on the top end) and the edge of the large chain ring (on the bottom end). If you take a look at the catalogs for 1982 and 1983, Trek was all over the map as far as seat tube panel decal placement--some were quite high, and others quite low. I looked at a number of 720/728 bikes via image search, paying closer attention to the tall 25.5" models like mine. This seemed to be where the panels ended up, and it looked natural as well.


The original main 531 decal was tucked up pretty close to the seat cluster lug point, so I did likewise with the new decal. More centerline work, of course.


I eyeballed the centerline for the fork blade 531 decals. Their distance from the crown echoed the originals' locations as well.


Non-drive-side.


Great looking decals, and not as ridiculously wide as the original ones, which wrapped around the fork blades even more.


You line things up and then they still end up a degree or few off. Oh well.


This one turned out great.


And this was my "Oh shoot" moment. What had looked like a 90%+ match when I peeled a corner and compared it to the head tube (pre mounting) turned out to be a whole lot less true to the head tube's color. Too light! The head tube does have red in it's brown hue, so this seat tube decal is on point there, it just needs to be a little darker. Obviously it looks pretty maroon in this photo. In real life, it's better. I will need to see this in full, direct sunlight, but I'm not holding my breath. On happier notes, I nailed the centering of this decal and was barely off on the yellow bands meeting each other.
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Old 10-13-21, 03:14 AM
  #45  
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With the decals placed and looking really nice (minus the slightly off brown), there was no time to waste in getting the rest of the bike together! A final bottom bracket sell measuring, some Phil Wood BB cup offset math, and greasing of everything, out went the Shimano BB-UN55 and in went the original-to-the-720 Phil unit. Really nice to have the Phil BB tool to do the work instead of taking it to a shop.

The bottom bracket was snugged and I mounted the now-filed (no more fine cracks at the webbing) Specialized flag triple. My spindle offsetting was perfect as the crankset's small ring's bolts came within 1mm of the Trek's bottom bracket shell lug point. The chain line is ~45.0mm, I can't go in any further, and the drive side Q-factor is no further out than my previous triplized 7400 Dura-Ace crankset setup. The non-drive-side Q-factor is also right where it needs to be--no fiddling or use of spacers. Whew!

Next went the the 7803 Dura-Ace front derailleur as well as a chain catcher, which will again allow me to shift to the small ring in any manner, from gracefully to clumsily, and not have the chain dumped onto the bottom bracket shell. A chain went on next, with me having to borrow several links from another used 10-speed chain to cover the 47cm chain stay demands. It's an inch too long, but I don't care, and I can run big-big without issue. Bottle cages went on after that and we have a complete 720/728 finally!!

Oh, and all this weighs just 11.25 kg or 24.75 lbs. With a Chorus double, no fenders, and a Prologo saddle (like my former 510), this is 23.0 lbs on the nose or just a whisper under. Impressive.

"Tomorrow," aka when I wake up to officially start the day, is a dry day as it rained today and will be raining the latter half of this week. So for now, a few more stellar indoor photos. I'll double check the setback of the Brooks saddle, but I should be very close. This is one very classy bike.


You can see the seat tube decal and the head tube color are much closer in these (darker) indoor photos, which in all honesty bodes well for me forgetting/getting over the difference and just riding the bike. As mentioned before, an outdoor in-the-sunlight assessment will have the final say one way or the other.
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Old 10-13-21, 06:38 AM
  #46  
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Dude, get some sleep. Awesome build though.
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Old 10-13-21, 06:09 PM
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Ok, folks, we have outdoor photos this time/finally. Great ambient lighting thanks to perfect Seattle cloud cover. Oh, I test rode it, too, beforehand.

I'm trying to think of what to say when here I have a bike that took no "getting used to" within half a mile, a steep hill, and no warming up. Perhaps it's something like: Presuming you set up your saddle and stem/bars/brake levers how you like them, you can forget most other bikes (and just choose this). Especially as a tall rider, these 47cm chain stay Treks just feel right. Stable, balanced, natural. Just get on it and ride. What do I, and what do we look for in a fendered rain/winter ride? It's a good question to ask, but the answer, or an answer, certainly revolves around it not being fiddly to operate. Dual pivot calipers that are easy to set up and just flat out work well? Yes. A freehub (or freewheel) that isn't a 95 dB tick/buzz/ratchet machine upon coasting? Yes again. Steering with good manners and a stable ride that "disappears beneath you"? Affirmative. Shorter crank arms for less range of knee flex in cold weather where the body doesn't feel like extending as fully (in comparison to warm summer days), two bottle cages for longer rides, 1:1 low gearing for hills or hills+not feeling like the Energizer Bunny, indexed downtube shifting for the no-drama gear selection experience, and a nice saddle and cockpit setup for putting the miles in unconsciously (figuratively, of course!). Instant companion.





Rear three-quarter "fender" view for all of you/us that are still wondering if I really installed them. Classy, classy, classy!
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Old 10-13-21, 06:37 PM
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For the sake of honesty, there are a few elements that create some noise as one goes along. The chain stay fender mount, which is sprung, does tick over crummy roads and when out of the saddle. It's pretty low volume stuff, and not a surprise to me. The middle chainring makes some low-level noise when engaging with the chain as I pedal, but I've known plenty of nice and new road cranksets that do the same, if not slightly louder. The nose connection for the B17 saddle creaks a little when traversing big bumps/hits. The bike feels solid otherwise, even after running the gauntlet that is one of my local streets, at speed. The B17 saddle helped take the heat out of the hits that the 33s couldn't. Front end geometry and cockpit setup as well.

Out of the saddle, the 170mm crank arms don't have the "killer instinct" that 175mm arms do as far as leverage and resulting torque application from my legs, but they get me along just fine. Plus, I chose them for cold weather, in-saddle spinning. Complete satisfaction is a cog change away, and I have many to choose from.

As the colder weather continues, I will be putting more miles on this beauty, but the initial three and a half are lovely and portend good/great things.

Technomic stems and Noodle bars: classic combos. Brooks synthetic tape takes some wrestling, but is comfortable. You can see the blue foam cushioning...oh well! Tektro R200 levers round out the affair. Comfortable as always, plus quick releases.


These R737 calipers look great on the bike and provide great stopping power. No fuss to set up or in use. As it should be. It's a nice 'welcome home' feature.


The second bottle is only accessible when stopped, but it exists! The (chrome) plated Silca pump I got with the bike will go along the seat tube when the bike is not in Photo Shoot mode.


As you can see, for comparison, in other photos, this "dark brown metallic" is pretty darn red. The head tube panel has more of a yellow tint to it, so I may be sending an email to VC to see what we can do to remedy it. Glossy 2mil vinyl decals from them are top notch otherwise.


The 7803 FD's inner plate drops pretty low, especially with only a 49T big ring. Shifts perfectly--no chucking the chain "over the top"! And that Phil bottom bracket, decades on, spins incredibly freely. Love it.


Business end Part II. Again, the chain is a little long, but this handles it without issue. Probably the most bored it'll ever be, not having to be stressed with anything approaching a short chain.


Venerable (going on six years now) Command Central. The always dependable 7900 downtube shifters.


531 purity. Literally feels so good!


Third Eye Chain Watcher: undercover brother who won't let you (or the chain) down.
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Old 10-13-21, 07:00 PM
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Another great looking build, Dan. I need to follow your lead on decal installation. I have a couple of bikes needing replacement decals, and I have never done one yet. Very nice work.

Just(& only) a suggestion on the chainstay fender mount. You might want to put leather washers on each end of the spring, and at the nut. Also, a nyloc nut could replace those two nuts. And maybe a bolt that is only threaded at the last 3/4"? That prevnt the bolt from hanging up on the bridge threads when removing the wheel. Maybe..

Congratulations on another big project.
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Old 10-13-21, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Roger M View Post
Another great looking build, Dan. I need to follow your lead on decal installation. I have a couple of bikes needing replacement decals, and I have never done one yet. Very nice work.

Just(& only) a suggestion on the chainstay fender mount. You might want to put leather washers on each end of the spring, and at the nut. Also, a nyloc nut could replace those two nuts. And maybe a bolt that is only threaded at the last 3/4"? That prevnt the bolt from hanging up on the bridge threads when removing the wheel. Maybe..

Congratulations on another big project.
Thank you! Yeah, decals are or certainly can be nerve-wracking. I remember placing the P A R A M O U N T and S C H W I N N decals on my '85 Paramount, a full 18" span for the top tube applied ones. One shot or eternal doom. Times four. Planning, marking things out, referencing other bikes, and perhaps even practice placing can help the 'performance' of placing it permanently, at least as far as I have found.

Regarding the chain stay fender mount, whether it's buried in a previous post or in my head (and I appreciate the suggestions), I have considered of all of that. Leather washers would be nice, but cut into precious compression space for getting the tire in and out, thus I'd need to give it more thought and research. The nyloc nut did not come in M4 size, for whatever reason, at the particular (and very thorough) hardware store I've been going to, much to my dismay and confoundment. I would have also preferred a bolt that was only partially threaded, but again, M4 sizing and not available in that style, or perhaps more crucially, the desired length. Thankfully the fender and spring don't really hang up on the threading, as I had anticipated they would (a percentage of the time). The noise ends up not being from them being loose; it's just from shifting slightly, even as the spring provides very good tension.

This solution functions as desired and allows tire ingress/egress as desired (in an ideal scenario). It also keeps things metric, and ultimately gets me on the road. It is not perfect, and I have known that since I implemented it. Since I have a few extra springs, I can go back to that hardware store and/or to another and spend some serious time working up a solution in Imperial/SAE/English hardware. Or I can bulk order my solution through McMaster Carr (which is a fantastic place to buy from) and get 100% what I want, but then I'd have to buy 25-50 more 720s and/or fender bikes at least, you know, just to make it worth it.

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