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What frames were made with Ishiwata 019?

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What frames were made with Ishiwata 019?

Old 09-19-21, 05:18 PM
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What frames were made with Ishiwata 019?

I have had 2 with Ishi022. Like/liked them both a lot.
Just thought a racier tubeset from them would be a good starting point for a performance vintage bike.

Any help appreciated in a low key, winter hunt.




FWIW =Size 60cm +/-1 (ctc)
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Old 09-19-21, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Wildwood View Post
I have had 2 with Ishi022. Like/liked them both a lot.
Just thought a racier tubeset from them would be a good starting point for a performance vintage bike.

Any help appreciated in a low key, winter hunt.




FWIW =Size 60cm +/-1 (ctc)
I want to say Giant, maybe Nishiki or Bridgestone, but I remember that being more reserved for track bikes maybe?
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Old 09-19-21, 07:06 PM
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I had a 62cm 3Rensho Athlete in blue that was made of 019
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Old 09-19-21, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by jdawginsc View Post
I want to say Giant, maybe Nishiki or Bridgestone, but I remember that being more reserved for track bikes maybe?
I am certain that track and time trial bikes were made of 019. But there were also road frames. I'm trying to identify by whom.

@Dylansbob has identified 3Rensho = Wondering how it rode in the large size?
With a quick search, Benotto had a model.
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Old 09-20-21, 03:52 AM
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Fuji.

I think.
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Old 09-20-21, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Wileyone View Post
Fuji.

I think.
Based only on my recollection, I think that one or more of the Fuji models Newest, Ace, or Professional were made of it.
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Old 09-20-21, 05:23 PM
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Trek.

Otto
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Old 09-20-21, 05:37 PM
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Wouldn't any of these Ishiwata 019 bikes have brifters? Or maybe 9 or 10 speed?

This thread doesn't belong here.

Reported.
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Old 09-20-21, 06:55 PM
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I’m waiting for the “show us your Ishiwata 015 bike” thread.
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Old 09-20-21, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by The Golden Boy View Post
Wouldn't any of these Ishiwata 019 bikes have brifters? Or maybe 9 or 10 speed?

This thread doesn't belong here.

Reported.
This is tubing produced in the 1980's and possibly earlier. Might you be thinking of something else?
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Old 09-21-21, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by USAZorro View Post
This is tubing produced in the 1980's and possibly earlier. Might you be thinking of something else?
According to this link, as far back as the 1970s.

https://bikeretrogrouch.blogspot.com...-ishiwata.html

IMO the discussion is perfectly apropos for C&V. The material apparently has been used for approaching 50 years in bike frames.
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Old 09-21-21, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Chuckk View Post
My '91 RB-1 shows a 022 badge on the frame and 019 on the forks.
Seems like I checked the tube specs, and the fork blades for 19 and 22 looked to be the same.
That would be some fine market engineering!
(My RB-1 feels just like an Italian bike, RB-2 didn't)
My '93 RB-1 has the 022 sticker on its frame too but the ones on the fork say Extreme Ishiwata Cromo...
Sure would like to see an 015 or 017 frame in person. Anyway, if anyone is interested - here's an Ishiwata tubing catalog I found when this thread got me to googling around on the interwebz:
https://www.equusbicycle.com/bike/is...og2/index.html
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Old 09-21-21, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by USAZorro View Post
This is tubing produced in the 1980's and possibly earlier. Might you be thinking of something else?
Originally Posted by Hondo6 View Post
According to this link, as far back as the 1970s.

https://bikeretrogrouch.blogspot.com...-ishiwata.html

IMO the discussion is perfectly apropos for C&V. The material apparently has been used for approaching 50 years in bike frames.
Clearly, 10 speed or brifters could be put on this bike.

Doesn't belong in C&V. Send this thread to the other forum. Where 3 people will see it and maybe one will answer.
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Old 09-21-21, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by The Golden Boy View Post
Clearly, 10 speed or brifters could be put on this bike.

Doesn't belong in C&V. Send this thread to the other forum. Where 3 people will see it and maybe one will answer.
I don't seem to remember the OP asking about any specific frame. The question was, quoting: "What frames were made with Ishiwata019?". The OP then went on to say they were looking for such a frame in 60cm +/1 1cm, ctc.

Such frames were made 40+ years ago, in the 70s. Seems to me that such a frame would qualify as "C&V".

Also, last time I checked it's possible to put 10-speed or later "brifters" on pretty much any bike using drop bars. So I hardly see how the objection that, "You could put 10-speed 'brifters' on that bike" is particularly relevant. You can do that to pretty much any vintage bike if you want.

Would it be "period correct" if you did? No - just like putting early Shimano 7-speed brifters on a 1970s frame wouldn't be period correct. But it would still be using a vintage frame, as well as possibly mostly other vintage components, with a more modern drivetrain.

Just my $0.02 worth. YMMV, and apparently does.

Last edited by Hondo6; 09-21-21 at 08:17 AM. Reason: Correct grammatical error and minor wording change..
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Old 09-21-21, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Hondo6 View Post
I don't seem to remember the OP asking about any specific frame. The question was, quoting: "What frames were made with Ishiwata019?". The OP then went on to say they were looking for such a frame in 60cm +/1 1cm, ctc.

Such frames were made 40+ years ago, in the 70s. Seems to me that such a frame would qualify as "C&V".

Also, last time I checked it's possible to put 10-speed or later "brifters" on pretty much any bike using drop bars. So I hardly see how the objection that, "You could put 10-speed 'brifters' on that bike" is particularly relevant. You can do that to pretty much any vintage bike if you want.

Would it be "period correct" if you did? No - just like putting early Shimano 7-speed brifters on a 1970s frame wouldn't be period correct. But it would still be using a vintage frame, as well as possibly mostly other vintage components, with a more modern drivetrain.

Just my $0.02 worth. YMMV, and apparently does.
We got a present for you.


The OP's "suggestion" removed 1/3 of the users' bikes from C&V and sent them to a forum no one wanted except the OP.
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Old 09-21-21, 09:05 AM
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I dislike the Early Brifter Forum as well. If it had been put up to a vote, I would have voted against it. I think it did long term damage to C&V by dividing posters into groups that don't make a lot of sense. I'm not sure where the MTB to drop bar thread went but the majority of those bikes involve indexing. I really liked the long thread showing all the brifter conversions on old bikes. That has disappeared from this forum.
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Old 09-21-21, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by The Golden Boy View Post
We got a present for you.


The OP's "suggestion" removed 1/3 of the users' bikes from C&V and sent them to a forum no one wanted except the OP.
I would suggest taking up your grudge with the OP privately and with the admins rather than baffling the rest of us with posts that we can't figure out.
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Old 09-21-21, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by obrentharris View Post
I would suggest taking up your grudge with the OP privately and with the admins rather than baffling the rest of us with posts that we can't figure out.
Brent
Agreed that the topic of this thread should be Ishiwata 019 bikes. They're not that common as that is light tubing, lighter than columbus SL as Ishiwata O22 is right around SL in terms of weight.

Here is a post discussing the different Ishiwata tubing sets:

https://bikeretrogrouch.blogspot.com...-ishiwata.html
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Old 09-21-21, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by The Golden Boy View Post
We got a present for you.


The OP's "suggestion" removed 1/3 of the users' bikes from C&V and sent them to a forum no one wanted except the OP.
Mercifully, I was preoccupied with other things at the time and I missed the entire non-event. I've been over it before I even knew it started and I'm ok with it.
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Old 09-21-21, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by The Golden Boy View Post
We got a present for you.


The OP's "suggestion" removed 1/3 of the users' bikes from C&V and sent them to a forum no one wanted except the OP.
Thanks for the "present". In turn, I have a suggestion for you:

https://www.udemy.com/topic/reading-comprehension/

If you have a problem with someone posting a photo of a "brifter"-equipped bike above, take it up with them. It wasn't the OP who did that. Nor did I. Rather, I responded to the OP's original question. You did not.

My reply to you above was to point out the fact that your objection was to something that wasn't related whatsoever to the OP's original question, and were instead objecting to something totally unrelated to that original question. I also pointed out the fact that your original objection that brifters could be installed was, IMO, frankly rather illogical since "brifters" can be mounted on ANY bike with drop bars - regardless of that bike's age. One purpose of downtube shifter boss covers having cable adjusters is to allow exactly that - e.g, to allow "brifters" to be installed on bikes not originally designed with them in mind.

The fact that a separate "Early Brifter Bike" subforum exists is nice, but is also irrelevant to the question the OP asked. The OP's original question didn't address shifting mechanisms at all. Rather, the OP merely asked a question about a particular frame tubing that dates to the 1970s. Thus, the OP's original question - What frames were made with Ishiwata 019? - indeed appears to be relevant for C&V, as frames made with Ishiwata 019 may also date back to the 1970s.

That's substantially before the introduction of "brifters". So no - ALL bike frames made from Ishiwata 019 cannot automatically be assumed to be "brifter"-equipped.

You also apparently further missed the reference (and link) to a previous Ishiwata 019 frame discussion in the C&V forum above.

You seem to have missed all of that. Hence my link recommendation.

Last edited by Hondo6; 09-21-21 at 01:28 PM. Reason: Wordsmithing.
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Old 09-21-21, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
Here is a post discussing the different Ishiwata tubing sets:

https://bikeretrogrouch.blogspot.com...-ishiwata.html
For some reason that link seems familiar . . . . (smile)
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Old 09-21-21, 01:35 PM
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My bad if you posted this earlier. I was trying to move the thread back on topic.
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Old 09-21-21, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Hondo6 View Post
Thanks for the "present". In turn, I have a suggestion for you:

https://www.udemy.com/topic/reading-comprehension/

If you have a problem with someone posting a photo of a "brifter"-equipped bike above, take it up with them. It wasn't the OP who did that. Nor did I. Rather, I responded to the OP's original question. You did not.

My reply to you above was to point out the fact that your objection was to something that wasn't related whatsoever to the OP's original question, and were instead objecting to something totally unrelated to that original question. I also pointed out the fact that your original objection that brifters could be installed was, IMO, frankly rather illogical since "brifters" can be mounted on ANY bike with drop bars - regardless of that bike's age. One purpose of downtube shifter boss covers having cable adjusters is to allow exactly that - e.g, to allow "brifters" to be installed on bikes not originally designed with them in mind.

The fact that a separate "Early Brifter Bike" subforum exists is nice, but is also irrelevant to the question the OP asked. The OP's original question didn't address shifting mechanisms at all. Rather, the OP merely asked a question about a particular frame tubing that dates to the 1970s. Thus, the OP's original question - What frames were made with Ishiwata 019? - indeed appears to be relevant for C&V, as frames made with Ishiwata 019 may also date back to the 1970s.

That's substantially before the introduction of "brifters". So no - ALL bike frames made from Ishiwata 019 cannot automatically be assumed to be "brifter"-equipped.

You also apparently further missed the reference (and link) to a previous Ishiwata 019 frame discussion in the C&V forum above.

You seem to have missed all of that. Hence my link recommendation.
Please enjoy your further wordsmithing here at bike forums. I truly look forward to your insight.
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Old 09-21-21, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by The Golden Boy View Post
Please enjoy your further wordsmithing here at bike forums. I truly look forward to your insight.
I sometimes "wordsmith" my replies because I prefer to be precise and correct when commenting in a public forum rather than appear foolish or ignorant. Some apparently don't care about that.

To each is own.
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Old 09-21-21, 02:38 PM
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Okay, I'll join, yea the Early Brifter forum sucks. I don't understand why the mods felt it was necessary to create a separate forum for something that's mostly C&V. It did take me a while a understand what GB was referring to, but since I've been around these parts for a bit, I eventually figured it out. Sounds like there's a digital grudge here as it was WW's idea for the early brifter forum, apparently? I'm confident it wasn't done with malice and the mods were probably just trying to be nice and cater to the great community, but you know what they say about good deeds...

At the end of the proverbial day, I am here to learn more about what frames were built with this light tubing. I was surprised to see people mention Fuji, as I thought Fuji mostly used their own tubing for their bikes. If you got em, post em.
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