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New classic frame

Old 10-13-21, 11:32 PM
  #26  
Bad Lag
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Originally Posted by phtomita View Post
Would you buy a brand new classic frame?
I would not buy that frame. If I did, I certainly would not outfit it as shown with all those modern components.

To me, that frame represents the very last generation of steel frames. In that regard, I do not see it as classic, at all. Vertical drop outs, cast stay ends/seat lug,... so many of the details are non-traditional, non-classic.

I'm not going to even bother discussing the components, I just wouldn't have them. That frame might be okay if it were outfitted with Nuovo or Super Record or even first generation Dura Ace (most fitting of all) but then it would be a mismatch of eras.

Buy a truly classic & vintage frame, not a knock off. Get an old, Italian - MASI or CINELLI or an old COLNAGO, etc. Get an old, British bike. How about a PEUGEOT PX-10 or a SCHWINN PARAMOUNT?

P.S. - Nothing I am posting is meant to disparage what I am sure is an excellent steel frame. It just isn't classic and I wouldn't spend that kind of money on it.
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Old 10-14-21, 05:27 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Bad Lag View Post
Buy a truly classic & vintage frame, not a knock off. Get an old, Italian - MASI or CINELLI or an old COLNAGO, etc. Get an old, British bike. How about a PEUGEOT PX-10 or a SCHWINN PARAMOUNT?
Hello from Japan, which is where this frame/bike is marketed. I suppose you could call it a knock off of a classic frame; but then perhaps you could call a CF Specialized a knock off of a CF Trek, or vice versa, or something like that. As it happens, I have an old Cinelli: it's decent, but the paint quality is crap. Old Colnagos here go for silly prices. I don't know offhand about Peugeots or Paramounts -- certainly the latter are very rare. (And as for old 3Rensho, Zunow, etc, those available here are all too small.)

My 59 cm garishly green POS [ho ho] frame has a mishmash of Tiagra, 105, and non-Shimano. It works together pretty well.

I have to go to bed very soon, as tomorrow I have to propel this POS-et-cetera bike 140 km (which doesn't worry me) and with 2,800 metres or so of "elevation gain" (which does).

A month or so from now I hope to report on adventures with a bike that will be authentically vintage (though with anachronistic components). The frame is probably a knock-off of something else, I don't know; what does seem pretty certain about this charming relic is that its (highly regarded) builder didn't use a jig and should have done.
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Old 10-14-21, 05:46 AM
  #28  
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shots fired!
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Old 10-14-21, 06:53 AM
  #29  
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If I was in the market for a NEW frame made by a fantastic supplier at a relatively bargain price, I'd buy a Panasonic in a heartbeat.
Really well made frames (see: Schwinn Prologue) with terrific finish.
Hard to import but doable either through Yellow Jersey or via a buddy in Japan.

Yes, one could purchase a legendary vintage frame for that amount or less, but if you gotta have new and nice...
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Old 10-14-21, 08:24 AM
  #30  
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It does look interesting. Just like those new classic-inspired frames from Italy. Unfortunately, I don't have the budget for a new bike and would have a hard time explaining why I "need" another.
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Old 10-14-21, 08:30 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by phtomita View Post
Would you buy a brand new classic frame?
https://cycle.panasonic.com/products..._order/frcc02/
Cost will be $1480 + $150 shipping + taxes (+ extra for painting).

I would seriously consider it -- in fact, i did

i looked hard at these Panasonic track frames when i had my custom built. I would have gone for it too if not for the fact that i was wanting some pretty serious custom geometry tweaks
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Old 10-14-21, 08:58 AM
  #32  
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Evolution...Devolution...A Tale, based on one of my faves, a nice silver/gold-brown '82 Columbine Sport-Tour frameset.

I AM DEVO!!!!!!! Except when I'm not.

Also note the kissin' cousin also-fave, now-green '82 Columbine Sport-Tour. It's had a new fork built by John Murphy, to replace the non-original fork it arrived with, was then resprayed by Franklin Frames, and has never had a vintage build by my hands.

I love them both madly, regardless of build, and am completely unable to work up any agida over other folks' choices in what they buy or how they build 'em. But YMMV.

Bought in 2017


2017 Build
Columbine Road '85 - Piermont Marsh - 03 by pcb_rf, on Flickr

2018 Build
Columbine '82 Road - '18 2x Build - 01 by pcb_rf, on Flickr

2019 Build
Columbine '82 Sportif - Vintage Build - 02 by pcb_rf, on Flickr

Kissin' Cousin '82 Columbine, before 11spd update and even more "modern" stuff.
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Old 10-14-21, 10:08 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by microcord View Post
I suppose you could call it a knock off of a classic frame...
You may be misreading or misunderstanding my post. I am saying it is NOT a "knock off", not a copy, of truly classic, truly vintage frames. Because it is NOT those things, I would not buy one.
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Old 10-14-21, 11:31 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Bad Lag View Post
To me, that frame represents the very last generation of steel frames.
Usually the last of a breed would be pretty collectible, no?
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Old 10-14-21, 08:53 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by icemilkcoffee View Post
Usually the last of a breed would be pretty collectible, no?
No. It is distinctly NOT one of the breed.

By analogy:

Shelby Cobra 427 =/= Mazda Miata

Last edited by Bad Lag; 10-14-21 at 11:15 PM.
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Old 10-15-21, 05:53 AM
  #36  
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One of the older POS ones has been for sale locally for awhile.

https://classifieds.ksl.com/listing/65098068

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Old 10-15-21, 07:41 AM
  #37  
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Meanwhile, over on ebay...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/165095792999

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Old 10-15-21, 09:41 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by johnnyace View Post
Meanwhile, over on ebay...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/165095792999

Very nice. Ad says two dents in the top tube, but does not show any pics of the dents.
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Old 10-15-21, 09:45 AM
  #39  
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New production bikes are no longer cheap. The All City Zig Zag with 105 is $3,050. Frame is $1,550. With Ultegra the bike is $4,199. I would think that is a fair comparison.

At today's exchange rate of 114 Y/USD, the Panasonic is $2,400 for 105 and $2,800 for Ultegra. Frame is $1,300. Does not seem out of line to me at all.
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Old 10-15-21, 10:54 AM
  #40  
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I would love to get a Panasonic frame. Have been oogling the FRCC22 and FRCC12 frames for some time now. The fact that it requires a bit of effort to order one outside of Japan, plus that everyone who's not a bike nerd will think you're riding around on an old promotion bike from the VCR era only makes me want one even more.
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Old 10-15-21, 02:13 PM
  #41  
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I was very close to getting a Pegoretti a few years ago. My wife wanted a trip to Italy and we made a deal. Then I did some diy plumbing and spent or vacation/bike money on repairs. And now it is too late.
So yea, I would. I considered a Panasonic once.
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Old 10-15-21, 07:10 PM
  #42  
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Probably not. There are plenty of nice classic bikes out there.

That Panasonic is nice though.
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Old 10-16-21, 08:55 AM
  #43  
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the pricing is reasonable -

too bad Panasonic wont bring back PICS system back to US.

a disc version of a PR6000 would be a cool build



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Old 10-17-21, 10:47 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Dylansbob View Post
Speaking of new classic-looking frames. I'll be honest, it's all I can do not to pull the trigger on a Toussaint. A bunch of money sitting in paypal isn't helping either. I disassembled my last low-trail project and miss the handling. Both my 650b wheelsets are ~126mm spacing so that's keeping me right now. It looks like a perfect parts bike for the person who has a 650b rimbrake wheelset already. Not to mention that's pretty cheap for a modern new frame compared to the venerable cheap frame standby, CrossCheck.

​​​​​​https://www.cyclestoussaint.com/coll...with-braze-ons
Looks like they went back to centerpull posts vs cantilevers. If I remember correctly, originally they were brazed on centerpulls, then cantilevers, now back to centerpulls? I prefer the braking modulation of centerpulls over cantilevers. ~$600 + tax if you include shipping, that's a pretty good deal.
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Old 10-18-21, 08:06 AM
  #45  
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I would for sure consider a new Panasonic frame if the geometry fit what I want. Having something that almost nobody else in a country has can be neat, even if it isnt measurably better than various alternatives.
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Old 10-18-21, 08:09 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by johnnyace View Post
Meanwhile, over on ebay...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/165095792999

Drives me nuts when the colors dont line up from tube to tube.
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Old 10-18-21, 08:28 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Drives me nuts when the colors dont line up from tube to tube.
I didn't notice that, but now I'll never be able to unsee it.
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Old 10-18-21, 10:56 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
I would for sure consider a new Panasonic frame if the geometry fit what I want. Having something that almost nobody else in a country has can be neat, even if it isnt measurably better than various alternatives.
Yeah, if your definition of C&V extends late enough to include 1991, this is like having a time machine set to when lugged steel bikes were still current.

Unfortunately, that goes for the tire clearance as well. 700x26C is the spec, if that's strict then I would definitely be out!
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Old 10-18-21, 12:17 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Drives me nuts when the colors dont line up from tube to tube.
Originally Posted by himespau View Post
I didn't notice that, but now I'll never be able to unsee it.
Looks like they tried pretty hard and failed, a bit odd considering they had a rocking paint program at that/one time?

Not that far off to me, close but no cigar.

Maybe on purpose, seems a little MTB or something, not sure if I would get on board but I think its growing on me.

Last edited by merziac; 10-18-21 at 12:21 PM.
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Old 10-18-21, 12:32 PM
  #50  
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Circling back just to weigh in again and we all know how we like to spend each others $$$$$.

New classic, yes.

Custom, yes, absolutely.

Worth every damn penny.

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