Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

New classic frame

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

New classic frame

Old 10-13-21, 11:32 PM
  #26  
Bad Lag
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: So Cal, for now
Posts: 1,959

Bikes: 1975 Bob Jackson - Nuovo Record, Brooks Pro, Clips & Straps

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 829 Post(s)
Liked 448 Times in 267 Posts
Originally Posted by phtomita View Post
Would you buy a brand new classic frame?
I would not buy that frame. If I did, I certainly would not outfit it as shown with all those modern components.

To me, that frame represents the very last generation of steel frames. In that regard, I do not see it as classic, at all. Vertical drop outs, cast stay ends/seat lug,... so many of the details are non-traditional, non-classic.

I'm not going to even bother discussing the components, I just wouldn't have them. That frame might be okay if it were outfitted with Nuovo or Super Record or even first generation Dura Ace (most fitting of all) but then it would be a mismatch of eras.

Buy a truly classic & vintage frame, not a knock off. Get an old, Italian - MASI or CINELLI or an old COLNAGO, etc. Get an old, British bike. How about a PEUGEOT PX-10 or a SCHWINN PARAMOUNT?

P.S. - Nothing I am posting is meant to disparage what I am sure is an excellent steel frame. It just isn't classic and I wouldn't spend that kind of money on it.
Bad Lag is offline  
Old 10-14-21, 05:27 AM
  #27  
microcord
Full Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 275
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 87 Post(s)
Liked 95 Times in 48 Posts
Originally Posted by Bad Lag View Post
Buy a truly classic & vintage frame, not a knock off. Get an old, Italian - MASI or CINELLI or an old COLNAGO, etc. Get an old, British bike. How about a PEUGEOT PX-10 or a SCHWINN PARAMOUNT?
Hello from Japan, which is where this frame/bike is marketed. I suppose you could call it a knock off of a classic frame; but then perhaps you could call a CF Specialized a knock off of a CF Trek, or vice versa, or something like that. As it happens, I have an old Cinelli: it's decent, but the paint quality is crap. Old Colnagos here go for silly prices. I don't know offhand about Peugeots or Paramounts -- certainly the latter are very rare. (And as for old 3Rensho, Zunow, etc, those available here are all too small.)

My 59 cm garishly green POS [ho ho] frame has a mishmash of Tiagra, 105, and non-Shimano. It works together pretty well.

I have to go to bed very soon, as tomorrow I have to propel this POS-et-cetera bike 140 km (which doesn't worry me) and with 2,800 metres or so of "elevation gain" (which does).

A month or so from now I hope to report on adventures with a bike that will be authentically vintage (though with anachronistic components). The frame is probably a knock-off of something else, I don't know; what does seem pretty certain about this charming relic is that its (highly regarded) builder didn't use a jig and should have done.
microcord is offline  
Likes For microcord:
Old 10-14-21, 05:46 AM
  #28  
hose
Miyata Mike
 
hose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: belchertown, MA
Posts: 175
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked 60 Times in 43 Posts
shots fired!
hose is offline  
Old 10-14-21, 06:53 AM
  #29  
rccardr 
aka: Dr. Cannondale
 
rccardr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 7,219

Bikes: Bob Jackson, Wizard, Pegoretti Duende, Merckx ProSLX, Pelizzoli, Cannondale ST, Schwinn Tempo, Schwinn Voyageur, Canyon Endurace, Richard Sachs, Davidson Discovery

Mentioned: 210 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1872 Post(s)
Liked 2,158 Times in 829 Posts
If I was in the market for a NEW frame made by a fantastic supplier at a relatively bargain price, I'd buy a Panasonic in a heartbeat.
Really well made frames (see: Schwinn Prologue) with terrific finish.
Hard to import but doable either through Yellow Jersey or via a buddy in Japan.

Yes, one could purchase a legendary vintage frame for that amount or less, but if you gotta have new and nice...
__________________
Hard at work in the Secret Underground Laboratory...
rccardr is offline  
Likes For rccardr:
Old 10-14-21, 08:24 AM
  #30  
himespau 
Senior Member
 
himespau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 13,139
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3653 Post(s)
Liked 2,455 Times in 1,462 Posts
It does look interesting. Just like those new classic-inspired frames from Italy. Unfortunately, I don't have the budget for a new bike and would have a hard time explaining why I "need" another.
himespau is offline  
Old 10-14-21, 08:30 AM
  #31  
DMC707 
Senior Member
 
DMC707's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Norman, Oklahoma
Posts: 5,210

Bikes: Too many to list

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1702 Post(s)
Liked 1,007 Times in 671 Posts
Originally Posted by phtomita View Post
Would you buy a brand new classic frame?
https://cycle.panasonic.com/products..._order/frcc02/
Cost will be $1480 + $150 shipping + taxes (+ extra for painting).

I would seriously consider it -- in fact, i did

i looked hard at these Panasonic track frames when i had my custom built. I would have gone for it too if not for the fact that i was wanting some pretty serious custom geometry tweaks
DMC707 is offline  
Old 10-14-21, 08:58 AM
  #32  
pcb 
Senior Member
 
pcb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Joisey
Posts: 1,477
Mentioned: 91 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 376 Post(s)
Liked 615 Times in 278 Posts
Evolution...Devolution...A Tale, based on one of my faves, a nice silver/gold-brown '82 Columbine Sport-Tour frameset.

I AM DEVO!!!!!!! Except when I'm not.

Also note the kissin' cousin also-fave, now-green '82 Columbine Sport-Tour. It's had a new fork built by John Murphy, to replace the non-original fork it arrived with, was then resprayed by Franklin Frames, and has never had a vintage build by my hands.

I love them both madly, regardless of build, and am completely unable to work up any agida over other folks' choices in what they buy or how they build 'em. But YMMV.

Bought in 2017


2017 Build
Columbine Road '85 - Piermont Marsh - 03 by pcb_rf, on Flickr

2018 Build
Columbine '82 Road - '18 2x Build - 01 by pcb_rf, on Flickr

2019 Build
Columbine '82 Sportif - Vintage Build - 02 by pcb_rf, on Flickr

Kissin' Cousin '82 Columbine, before 11spd update and even more "modern" stuff.
__________________
Fuggedaboutit!
pcb is offline  
Likes For pcb:
Old 10-14-21, 10:08 AM
  #33  
Bad Lag
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: So Cal, for now
Posts: 1,959

Bikes: 1975 Bob Jackson - Nuovo Record, Brooks Pro, Clips & Straps

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 829 Post(s)
Liked 448 Times in 267 Posts
Originally Posted by microcord View Post
I suppose you could call it a knock off of a classic frame...
You may be misreading or misunderstanding my post. I am saying it is NOT a "knock off", not a copy, of truly classic, truly vintage frames. Because it is NOT those things, I would not buy one.
Bad Lag is offline  
Likes For Bad Lag:
Old 10-14-21, 11:31 AM
  #34  
icemilkcoffee 
Senior Member
 
icemilkcoffee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,644
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 971 Post(s)
Liked 871 Times in 520 Posts
Originally Posted by Bad Lag View Post
To me, that frame represents the very last generation of steel frames.
Usually the last of a breed would be pretty collectible, no?
icemilkcoffee is offline  
Old 10-14-21, 08:53 PM
  #35  
Bad Lag
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: So Cal, for now
Posts: 1,959

Bikes: 1975 Bob Jackson - Nuovo Record, Brooks Pro, Clips & Straps

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 829 Post(s)
Liked 448 Times in 267 Posts
Originally Posted by icemilkcoffee View Post
Usually the last of a breed would be pretty collectible, no?
No. It is distinctly NOT one of the breed.

By analogy:

Shelby Cobra 427 =/= Mazda Miata

Last edited by Bad Lag; 10-14-21 at 11:15 PM.
Bad Lag is offline  
Old 10-15-21, 05:53 AM
  #36  
jamesdak 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Utah
Posts: 7,988

Bikes: Paletti,Pinarello Monviso,Duell Vienna,Giordana XL Super(2)Lemond Maillot Juane (2) & custom,PDG Paramount,Serotta CSI,Fuji Opus III,Davidson Impulse,Pashley Guv'nor,Evans,Fishlips,Prologue TT,Y-Foil,Softride, Tetra Pro, CAAD8 Optimo,Klein Quantum II

Mentioned: 142 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2050 Post(s)
Liked 3,001 Times in 1,210 Posts
One of the older POS ones has been for sale locally for awhile.

https://classifieds.ksl.com/listing/65098068

__________________
Steel is real...and comfy.
jamesdak is offline  
Old 10-15-21, 07:41 AM
  #37  
johnnyace 
Le savonnier
 
johnnyace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,705

Bikes: I can count 'em on one hand

Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 729 Post(s)
Liked 585 Times in 267 Posts
Meanwhile, over on ebay...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/165095792999

johnnyace is offline  
Old 10-15-21, 09:41 AM
  #38  
Shrevvy 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 751

Bikes: 77 Trek TX900, 81.5 Trek 950, 83 Trek 970, 84 Schwinn Peloton, 88 Schwinn Premis, 85 Pinarello Montello, 88 Lemond Pro, more...

Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 240 Post(s)
Liked 279 Times in 135 Posts
Originally Posted by johnnyace View Post
Meanwhile, over on ebay...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/165095792999

Very nice. Ad says two dents in the top tube, but does not show any pics of the dents.
__________________
#GCVintageBicycles for pics of C&V bikes and parts.
Shrevvy is offline  
Old 10-15-21, 09:45 AM
  #39  
Shrevvy 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 751

Bikes: 77 Trek TX900, 81.5 Trek 950, 83 Trek 970, 84 Schwinn Peloton, 88 Schwinn Premis, 85 Pinarello Montello, 88 Lemond Pro, more...

Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 240 Post(s)
Liked 279 Times in 135 Posts
New production bikes are no longer cheap. The All City Zig Zag with 105 is $3,050. Frame is $1,550. With Ultegra the bike is $4,199. I would think that is a fair comparison.

At today's exchange rate of 114 Y/USD, the Panasonic is $2,400 for 105 and $2,800 for Ultegra. Frame is $1,300. Does not seem out of line to me at all.
__________________
#GCVintageBicycles for pics of C&V bikes and parts.
Shrevvy is offline  
Old 10-15-21, 10:54 AM
  #40  
th0m
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Sweden
Posts: 60
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked 46 Times in 17 Posts
I would love to get a Panasonic frame. Have been oogling the FRCC22 and FRCC12 frames for some time now. The fact that it requires a bit of effort to order one outside of Japan, plus that everyone who's not a bike nerd will think you're riding around on an old promotion bike from the VCR era only makes me want one even more.
th0m is offline  
Old 10-15-21, 02:13 PM
  #41  
Classtime 
Senior Member
 
Classtime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,818

Bikes: 82 Medici, 2011 Richard Sachs, 2011 Milwaukee Road

Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1502 Post(s)
Liked 1,126 Times in 676 Posts
I was very close to getting a Pegoretti a few years ago. My wife wanted a trip to Italy and we made a deal. Then I did some diy plumbing and spent or vacation/bike money on repairs. And now it is too late.
So yea, I would. I considered a Panasonic once.
__________________
I don't do: disks, tubeless, e-shifting, or bead head nymphs.
Classtime is offline  
Old 10-15-21, 07:10 PM
  #42  
Bianchigirll 
Bianchi Goddess
 
Bianchigirll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Shady Pines Retirement Fort Wayne, In
Posts: 29,128

Bikes: Too many to list here check my signature.

Mentioned: 170 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2670 Post(s)
Liked 2,071 Times in 1,167 Posts
Probably not. There are plenty of nice classic bikes out there.

That Panasonic is nice though.
__________________
One morning you wake up, the girl is gone, the bikes are gone, all that's left behind is a pair of old tires and a tube of tubular glue, all squeezed out"

Sugar "Kane" Kowalczyk
Bianchigirll is offline  
Likes For Bianchigirll:
Old 10-16-21, 08:55 AM
  #43  
SSRI
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 893
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 111 Post(s)
Liked 23 Times in 16 Posts

the pricing is reasonable -

too bad Panasonic wont bring back PICS system back to US.

a disc version of a PR6000 would be a cool build



SSRI is offline  
Old 10-17-21, 10:47 AM
  #44  
gugie 
Bike Butcher of Portland
 
gugie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 10,895

Bikes: It's complicated.

Mentioned: 1215 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4242 Post(s)
Liked 4,125 Times in 1,772 Posts
Originally Posted by Dylansbob View Post
Speaking of new classic-looking frames. I'll be honest, it's all I can do not to pull the trigger on a Toussaint. A bunch of money sitting in paypal isn't helping either. I disassembled my last low-trail project and miss the handling. Both my 650b wheelsets are ~126mm spacing so that's keeping me right now. It looks like a perfect parts bike for the person who has a 650b rimbrake wheelset already. Not to mention that's pretty cheap for a modern new frame compared to the venerable cheap frame standby, CrossCheck.

​​​​​​https://www.cyclestoussaint.com/coll...with-braze-ons
Looks like they went back to centerpull posts vs cantilevers. If I remember correctly, originally they were brazed on centerpulls, then cantilevers, now back to centerpulls? I prefer the braking modulation of centerpulls over cantilevers. ~$600 + tax if you include shipping, that's a pretty good deal.
__________________
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
gugie is offline  
Likes For gugie:
Old 10-18-21, 08:06 AM
  #45  
mstateglfr 
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 15,096

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo

Mentioned: 120 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9423 Post(s)
Liked 5,773 Times in 3,340 Posts
I would for sure consider a new Panasonic frame if the geometry fit what I want. Having something that almost nobody else in a country has can be neat, even if it isnt measurably better than various alternatives.
mstateglfr is offline  
Likes For mstateglfr:
Old 10-18-21, 08:09 AM
  #46  
mstateglfr 
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 15,096

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo

Mentioned: 120 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9423 Post(s)
Liked 5,773 Times in 3,340 Posts
Originally Posted by johnnyace View Post
Meanwhile, over on ebay...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/165095792999

Drives me nuts when the colors dont line up from tube to tube.
mstateglfr is offline  
Likes For mstateglfr:
Old 10-18-21, 08:28 AM
  #47  
himespau 
Senior Member
 
himespau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 13,139
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3653 Post(s)
Liked 2,455 Times in 1,462 Posts
Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Drives me nuts when the colors dont line up from tube to tube.
I didn't notice that, but now I'll never be able to unsee it.
himespau is offline  
Old 10-18-21, 10:56 AM
  #48  
ThermionicScott 
working on my sandal tan
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,136

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)

Mentioned: 95 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3672 Post(s)
Liked 2,140 Times in 1,351 Posts
Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
I would for sure consider a new Panasonic frame if the geometry fit what I want. Having something that almost nobody else in a country has can be neat, even if it isnt measurably better than various alternatives.
Yeah, if your definition of C&V extends late enough to include 1991, this is like having a time machine set to when lugged steel bikes were still current.

Unfortunately, that goes for the tire clearance as well. 700x26C is the spec, if that's strict then I would definitely be out!
__________________
Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
RUSA #7498
ThermionicScott is offline  
Old 10-18-21, 12:17 PM
  #49  
merziac
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 11,725

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 230 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3658 Post(s)
Liked 4,194 Times in 2,508 Posts
Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Drives me nuts when the colors dont line up from tube to tube.
Originally Posted by himespau View Post
I didn't notice that, but now I'll never be able to unsee it.
Looks like they tried pretty hard and failed, a bit odd considering they had a rocking paint program at that/one time?

Not that far off to me, close but no cigar.

Maybe on purpose, seems a little MTB or something, not sure if I would get on board but I think its growing on me.

Last edited by merziac; 10-18-21 at 12:21 PM.
merziac is offline  
Old 10-18-21, 12:32 PM
  #50  
merziac
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 11,725

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 230 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3658 Post(s)
Liked 4,194 Times in 2,508 Posts
Circling back just to weigh in again and we all know how we like to spend each others $$$$$.

New classic, yes.

Custom, yes, absolutely.

Worth every damn penny.

merziac is offline  
Likes For merziac:

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.