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Another "Where can I find a part thread" - Sachs Huret this time

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Another "Where can I find a part thread" - Sachs Huret this time

Old 10-20-21, 01:16 PM
  #1  
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Another "Where can I find a part thread" - Sachs Huret this time

I picked up a Gitane "Champion" recently and resolved to ride it before the fall passed.

I didn't take before photos but all in all it looked good when I went to view. Tires were age rotten Michelins so couldn't test ride. If only I had a test ride......
Tire on now are just an old set I installed for that after assembly test-ride thing I had planned.

Specs were very close to the 1985/86 factory specs:
62cm frame
Sachs Huret Eco rear derailleur (instantly adjustable for up to 24 tooth or 24-28 tooth rear cog)
Sachs Huret Dou Front derailleur
Huret Rival shifters
Maillard 6 speed 14-28 freewheel Weinmann 500 brakes with Dia Compe levers
Belleri stem and bars Atax seatpost with original Mundialita seat

The non catalogue components are date correct which makes me think that Gitane (or a distributor) simply used what they had on hand to finish
Per catalogue hubs should have been Atom with Mavic rims but this one has Maillard hubs with Weinmann rims
It has the correct Solida cranks but has Lyotard pedals instead of Maillard

All in all a nice looking bike and thought it would make a nice winter rider. Seatpost is super high simply because I prefer to clamp there for Park stand instead of on frame.







PO claimed bike had sat for 20yrs in garage so I tore it down and rebuilt it.

Problem 1) RD hanger bent - could have been a garage accident so I accepted that.

Problem 2) The Eco RD spring was bent and snapped when I tried to straighten it. Where do you find a 36yr old Sachs Huret Rd spring? I posted on the ISO and trade thread and @francophile mailed me a spring and complete set of jockey wheels. It installed with no issues. These derailleurs can be set for up to 24 teeth or up to 28 rears.

Problem 3) Someone cut the chain short by two links. No idea why but fixable with new chain

Problem 4) PO (or someone else) had installed a non-original "cable anchor derailleur plate". Try as I might the cable won't stay tight but under pressure pulls loose. Torquing down the anchor bolt simply crushed the cable which is not good. I finally gave up and brought it to the local frame builder who tried bending an older Shimano and then an older Suntour anchor plate. He finally got one to work but as soon as I took it off the stand and rode it, first shift up, off it came.

Here is a view of the anchor bolt. Surely someone has had to replace on of these? It has fine serrations on it. I'm pretty sure I could make one if someone can photo the correct cable anchor derailleur plate and post on here
If I can't find one I could probably find a non Sachs Huret replacement but the hanger did not accept a Suntour VGT so perhaps it's a weird french thread.


Last edited by WGB; 10-20-21 at 01:23 PM.
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Old 10-20-21, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by WGB View Post
I picked up a Gitane "Champion" recently and resolved to ride it before the fall passed.
(snip)

Problem 4) PO (or someone else) had installed a non-original "cable anchor derailleur plate". Try as I might the cable won't stay tight but under pressure pulls loose. Torquing down the anchor bolt simply crushed the cable which is not good. I finally gave up and brought it to the local frame builder who tried bending an older Shimano and then an older Suntour anchor plate. He finally got one to work but as soon as I took it off the stand and rode it, first shift up, off it came.

Here is a view of the anchor bolt. Surely someone has had to replace on of these? It has fine serrations on it. I'm pretty sure I could make one if someone can photo the correct cable anchor derailleur plate and post on here
If I can't find one I could probably find a non Sachs Huret replacement but the hanger did not accept a Suntour VGT so perhaps it's a weird french thread.

I think you might need an 80's cable (eg. Simplex) to go along with your bolt, too. Modern shift cables aren't as fat as the old ones.

And I have some Sachs FDs. Let me see if I have similar parts I can take a pic of.
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Old 10-20-21, 04:02 PM
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I didn't even consider the cables might be different. I'd glanced at the heads to see what they were and made a mental note that thankfully they weren't the lollipop style french ones but since they had Shimano type heads I didn't think further. Thicker cables, that might make them easier to lock inThank you..
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Old 10-20-21, 07:54 PM
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Here's the deal.

There were three different ways they fixed cable to those rear mechs. I can give you pictures of each if you need it, I have at least 5 of those mechs, not including the one I parted out for you. The three types:
  • 1 used a flat-head "banjo" style bolt, threaded from inside the body outward. The cable slipped through the bolt. A concave washer pinched the cable down with a nut.
  • 1 used a flat-head straight bolt, threaded from inside the body outward with the tabbed washer in #4 above topped with a nut.
  • 1 used the bolt and tabbed washer in #4, screwed directly into the body using the same threaded hole for the two above
.
The tabbed washer in all cases corresponded to a flat edge on the side of the mech's body.

I've used the thinner Shimano cables on every generation of Huret Mech. Modification to the tabbed washer are required on older mechs like the Allvit. I've had no major issues with the ECO rear and cable. But I'd be lying if I said I hadn't seen slippage happen using the tabbled washer setups above depending on install. It's definitely easier with a fatter Huret cable, or similar..

I can't tell, is the one you're using one with matte finish, or chrome?
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Old 10-21-21, 08:25 AM
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@francophile - Mine has (I believe a matt finish). I'll photo in a few minutes and update.


** I added a washer to see if that might help, I know there wasn't a washer originally

Cable anchor plate looks a lot like the one I posted above (Part #4) from a photo I got off line but when installed as it was and tightened down, the cable pulled free by hand. Even after bending the anchor, cable pulls loose when shifting. I think - repeat - think it's not the original tab but rather one that looked similar and someone installed it hoping it would work. Having said all that, perhaps the cable thickness does matter.




Photo of top of anchor just incase that matters.

bertinjim sent me an email about this as well and quoted below:

"I just went and measured my rear derailleur cables. My oldest restoration of 10 years ago, the black C 37, has a cable thickness of 1.7mm. My more recent ones, 1 and 5 years old, are 1.3mm. These are all stainless mandrel drawn cables. The cables for the as yet unbuilt Carlton, purchased about 6 months ago are 1 mm! Hummmm. Worth checking."

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Old 10-21-21, 12:01 PM
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Based on what I am seeing, it really looks like cable diameter shouldn't matter(?). The bent-tab washer looks fine. Does it clamp down to zero clearance without the cable in place (it should).

What I would do is lubricate the threads and the underside of the bolt head, to more effectively clamp that cable.
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Old 10-21-21, 01:13 PM
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Cable Thickness & Clamp Screw

Originally Posted by dddd View Post
Based on what I am seeing, it really looks like cable diameter shouldn't matter(?). The bent-tab washer looks fine. Does it clamp down to zero clearance without the cable in place (it should).

What I would do is lubricate the threads and the underside of the bolt head, to more effectively clamp that cable.


Those late generation Sachs Huret ECO rear derailleurs were cheaply made stamped steel copies of the original Chalenger RDs that came out in 1973. I suspect that the threads that the screw goes into are a little munged from the factory??? That may be why the screw wont seat all the way down.

As far as the cable clamp tab is concerned, it should work OK. Huret used that design from the beginning. Here's an older Challenger and one from 1981. The main difference between the ECO and the Challenger RDs beside quality is the Challenger RDs had an aluminum outside parallelogram.




BTW WGB Your bike is a 1985-86 model. They were the same both years.

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Old 10-21-21, 02:54 PM
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dddd verktyg
Ex-Pres mailed me a replacement "anchor bolt"/tab.
I agree, I think the bolt must seat fully into the derailleur, and, provided the "anchor bolt"/tab bottoms out without a cable it should hold with a cable. I screwed down the bolt without a cable and the "anchor bolt"/tab seems to fully seat. That suggests to me that the narrow cable idea might have merit as it's possible that there is enough room in the grove for the cable to slide in.
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Old 10-21-21, 04:50 PM
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I checked online and found a listing on Amazon for 1.5mm derailleur cables. Per that seller "Our products will enhance your experience to unparalleled inspiration." Sounds delightful.....
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Old 10-26-21, 07:41 AM
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Ha!

That's the correct tabbed washer. However, the extra washer you have is not needed, is it part of the problem? (sorry if I missed an earlier comment).

I don't think yours is the matte finish model, yours looks like a chrome one. Want me to take some pics of the samples I have? Not sure if it really helps to see finishes or styles in this case

I am wondering if maybe the issue with not tightening is that bolt isn't original, maybe it was a replacement with invalid threading which someone jammed into place? I seem to remember the tip and head of of my bolt was more squared and possibly finer thread.

Do you have a thread gauge handy, or maybe a tap and die set you could use to confirm threading on that bolt?
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Old 10-26-21, 09:28 AM
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I don't have such a tool but I know someone who does.
My fine wife has our car today and it's currently 6c or 42f with driving rain. I could lie and say I'm not biking in this weather to protect my Brooks seat but I'd be lying because I don't want to get soaked on a 30k ride... Tomorrow no rain so I'll take the Rd for a ride and see the man.
Good suggestion, hadn't considered the threads as a possible issue. I'd simply checked there was no dirt or similar in the recess. I had focused on the idea of modern cables being narrower
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Old 10-29-21, 10:48 AM
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DIdn't get to check threads but bolt seats smoothly and tightly in threads and bottoms out properly so believe that is not issue. Going to get some fatter cables...
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