Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

How Rare Are 1900s - 1920s Road Bikes?

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

How Rare Are 1900s - 1920s Road Bikes?

Old 10-24-21, 05:12 PM
  #1  
Yelbom15
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Yelbom15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked 62 Times in 27 Posts
How Rare Are 1900s - 1920s Road Bikes?

After running into a late 50s/early 60s Dunelt bicycle that this forum helped out tons towards me learning about, I kinda got myself sucked into wanting to dive deeper into vintage bikes.

Do many people come across pre-WW2 racing bikes such as Peugeot or Automoto and if so, are they entirely on the high side of things when it comes to price($2000+)?




Yelbom15 is offline  
Old 10-24-21, 05:29 PM
  #2  
WGB
WGB
 
WGB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Niagara Region
Posts: 4,316

Bikes: Panasonic PT-4500

Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1337 Post(s)
Liked 1,078 Times in 760 Posts
I just posted an ad for a 1949 CCM on the Canadian version of craigslist thread. IIRC it was near London Ontario (?) and listed a $1000 Canadian.
WGB is offline  
Old 10-24-21, 05:44 PM
  #3  
iab
Senior Member
 
iab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NW Burbs, Chicago
Posts: 11,284
Mentioned: 175 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2474 Post(s)
Liked 2,126 Times in 898 Posts
Please note, the following is from my experience and not meant to be definitive. I do have a strong interest in these bikes. I think 1920s French road bikes are the most "common". I see 1-2 per month of those on ebay France. 1920s Italian road bikes are pretty uncommon. I see maybe 3-4 per year. Pre-WW1 are more uncommon. Maybe 1-2 French per year, and maybe 1 Italian every 2 years.

I won't get into valuations other than to say just because something is rare, it doesn't make it valuable. In general, I think you are thinking on the high side for these bikes.
iab is offline  
Old 10-24-21, 06:01 PM
  #4  
brewerkz 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Mason Ohio
Posts: 98

Bikes: 1985 Schwinn Madison, 1946 Higgins Ultralite, 1991 Trek 970

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked 39 Times in 17 Posts
When the safety bike was introduced in 1886 there was an explosion of interest in cycling with bike manufacturers popping up all over the US.

The government efforts to collect steel for the world wars consumed a lot of these bikes.
brewerkz is offline  
Likes For brewerkz:
Old 10-24-21, 06:13 PM
  #5  
iab
Senior Member
 
iab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NW Burbs, Chicago
Posts: 11,284
Mentioned: 175 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2474 Post(s)
Liked 2,126 Times in 898 Posts
1933 Frejus

Frejus001 by iabisdb, on Flickr




1925 Frejus

Frejus 01 by iabisdb, on Flickr




1915 Rola

Rola 01 by iabisdb, on Flickr
iab is offline  
Old 10-24-21, 06:20 PM
  #6  
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 17,405
Mentioned: 113 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2390 Post(s)
Liked 1,306 Times in 986 Posts
Really surprises me that the brake levers were not modified to make them even a smidge more ergonomic.
I recall a French bike that had brake levers a bit ahead of the Italians, just wild what was accepted as normal and correct.
repechage is offline  
Old 10-24-21, 06:27 PM
  #7  
iab
Senior Member
 
iab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NW Burbs, Chicago
Posts: 11,284
Mentioned: 175 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2474 Post(s)
Liked 2,126 Times in 898 Posts
Originally Posted by repechage View Post
Really surprises me that the brake levers were not modified to make them even a smidge more ergonomic.
I recall a French bike that had brake levers a bit ahead of the Italians, just wild what was accepted as normal and correct.
You do need the squeeze range. Calipers are not tight due to the flex in wood rims. You don't want rub when out of the saddle grinding up a climb on your 48/20.
iab is offline  
Likes For iab:
Old 10-24-21, 07:55 PM
  #8  
Yelbom15
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Yelbom15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked 62 Times in 27 Posts
iab Your bike, the 1915 Rola, is incredible really and is exactly what Iíve been drooling over lately. I found your post on it as well. If you donít mind me asking, how much did you pay you friend for this one? Do you heavily source most of your collection from over seas such as eBay France?

I take it if you did want to fiddle around town with these, you slap on aluminum clinchers or something similar close to the era?

brewerkz Didnít even think of that. The amount of abandoned bikes due to men leaving to fight mustíve left thousands to be snagged up.

Here is a Jean Thomann for around 1300.00. Iíve been told many of times that the price is up to the eye of the beholder.



Last edited by Yelbom15; 10-24-21 at 08:12 PM.
Yelbom15 is offline  
Likes For Yelbom15:
Old 10-25-21, 12:55 AM
  #9  
martl
Strong Walker
 
martl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 1,169

Bikes: too many

Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 263 Post(s)
Liked 324 Times in 177 Posts
Originally Posted by iab View Post
Please note, the following is from my experience and not meant to be definitive. I do have a strong interest in these bikes. I think 1920s French road bikes are the most "common". I see 1-2 per month of those on ebay France. 1920s Italian road bikes are pretty uncommon. I see maybe 3-4 per year. Pre-WW1 are more uncommon. Maybe 1-2 French per year, and maybe 1 Italian every 2 years.
in my experience, one has a better chance of finding bikes in the local marketplaces, "Ebay Kleinanzeigen" for germany, marktplaats.nl for Netherlands, subito.it for italy, leboncoin.fr for france. Downside: many people on there are unwilling to ship/international, don't trust payment services, or just wont communicate, especially if you dont speak the language. But i managed to find a few good items over the years.

Just an example, this is what i found on leboncoin on a random search:

"Gladiator"
https://www.leboncoin.fr/velos/2035781868.htm


"Griffon"
https://www.leboncoin.fr/velos/2038714877.htm


etc...

of course, the best option is to visit an event in that country and check the swap market. The stuff there can blow your mind

martl is offline  
Likes For martl:
Old 10-25-21, 09:18 AM
  #10  
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 17,405
Mentioned: 113 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2390 Post(s)
Liked 1,306 Times in 986 Posts
Originally Posted by iab View Post
You do need the squeeze range. Calipers are not tight due to the flex in wood rims. You don't want rub when out of the saddle grinding up a climb on your 48/20.
I will buy the cable take up, but one would then still be happy with a hook or flip at the end.
repechage is offline  
Old 10-25-21, 09:27 AM
  #11  
Yelbom15
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Yelbom15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked 62 Times in 27 Posts
martl Thank you for that source. I just contacted the individual selling the Gladiator. I can see how a language barrier may get in the way of this plus shipping.

In the United States, especially here in Florida, the culture for vintage is scarce. I canít find any swap clubs or even groups that specialize in it. Closest one is about 12 hours north and of course canceled due to the events going on in the world. Itís a very throw away kind of area and typically if anyone gets their hand even on a basic Peugeot, theyíll charge you 1,200 just for looking at it. Lol

So if thereís anyone out there with Instagram or just a friendly email to stay in touch, Iíd love to start my search of collecting. Thereís far worse hobbies, right??
Yelbom15 is offline  
Old 10-25-21, 09:54 AM
  #12  
rustystrings61 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Greenwood SC USA
Posts: 1,907

Bikes: 2002 Mercian Vincitore, 1982 Mercian Colorado, 1976 Puch Royal X, 1974 Allegro No. 76, 1973 Raleigh Competition, 1973 Raleigh GS, 1971 Gitane Tour de France and others

Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 668 Post(s)
Liked 873 Times in 468 Posts
Argh! Now I'm trawling ebay.fr and finding things like this -

rustystrings61 is offline  
Old 10-25-21, 02:05 PM
  #13  
martl
Strong Walker
 
martl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 1,169

Bikes: too many

Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 263 Post(s)
Liked 324 Times in 177 Posts
Originally Posted by Yelbom15 View Post
martl Thank you for that source. I just contacted the individual selling the Gladiator. I can see how a language barrier may get in the way of this plus shipping.

In the United States, especially here in Florida, the culture for vintage is scarce. I canít find any swap clubs or even groups that specialize in it. Closest one is about 12 hours north and of course canceled due to the events going on in the world. Itís a very throw away kind of area and typically if anyone gets their hand even on a basic Peugeot, theyíll charge you 1,200 just for looking at it. Lol

So if thereís anyone out there with Instagram or just a friendly email to stay in touch, Iíd love to start my search of collecting. Thereís far worse hobbies, right??
Glad I could help! Hope it works out, the chances are 1:3 in my experience but don't despair, for the next one is just on the line..
martl is offline  
Old 10-25-21, 03:48 PM
  #14  
iab
Senior Member
 
iab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NW Burbs, Chicago
Posts: 11,284
Mentioned: 175 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2474 Post(s)
Liked 2,126 Times in 898 Posts
Originally Posted by martl View Post
in my experience, one has a better chance of finding bikes in the local marketplaces, "Ebay Kleinanzeigen" for germany, marktplaats.nl for Netherlands, subito.it for italy, leboncoin.fr for france. Downside: many people on there are unwilling to ship/international, don't trust payment services, or just wont communicate, especially if you dont speak the language. But i managed to find a few good items over the years.
I agree. I have had zero dealings from subito.it where they were willing to ship. I did get a 1925 Legnano from FB Italy. Not the best deal in my life, but acceptable. And in hindsight, all 3 bikes above are from guys I know.

OP, if you go to expedia.com, you will find 6 nights and airfare to Milano for under $1500. Cheaper if you spend less nights. 18-20 February is Mostra Scambio Novegro. You will find your bike there. Getting it home may be a chore, but it is an option.

Here are my pics from 2018 - https://www.flickr.com/photos/681231...57666038387208
iab is offline  
Likes For iab:
Old 10-25-21, 03:57 PM
  #15  
iab
Senior Member
 
iab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NW Burbs, Chicago
Posts: 11,284
Mentioned: 175 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2474 Post(s)
Liked 2,126 Times in 898 Posts
Originally Posted by Yelbom15 View Post
I take it if you did want to fiddle around town with these, you slap on aluminum clinchers or something similar close to the era?
No. I ride period correct. I pretty much stopped doing challenge rides like Cino or Dairyland Dare on these bikes. They, and I, need a rest.
iab is offline  
Likes For iab:
Old 10-25-21, 05:49 PM
  #16  
FrejusFlyer
Senior Member
 
FrejusFlyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 52
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked 15 Times in 8 Posts
I was looking for a bike like this a few months ago and wound up getting something from eBay France. I made an offer on that Jean Thomann, but he declined it. I won an auction for a Rudge from seller in the UK, "Lordfirestarter", but he cancelled the transaction because the auction price wasn't to his liking. The bike is still up for sale (the bike Rusty posted is one of his). I wound up with a Claude Delage racer, I think from around 1915-20, and it's in the process of becoming road worthy. Here's a photo from the auction:

Last edited by FrejusFlyer; 10-25-21 at 05:54 PM.
FrejusFlyer is offline  
Likes For FrejusFlyer:
Old 10-27-21, 10:23 AM
  #17  
RustyJames 
Senior Member
 
RustyJames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 696

Bikes: You had me at rusty and Italian!!

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 270 Post(s)
Liked 410 Times in 224 Posts
This thread is dangerous since my interest has become pre bike-boom (~1970) machines. Now Iím going to start scouring for pre-war bikesÖ..
RustyJames is offline  
Old 10-28-21, 08:17 AM
  #18  
Yelbom15
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Yelbom15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked 62 Times in 27 Posts
Peugeot

May have just found someone from France willing to ship. Weíre talking about it ďgoogle translateĒ such as a bank transfer and using Colissmo to ship. Sound like he may have shipped out before. Here are some photos.

Seller says it could be a mid 1920s production. A 57cm with 700b wheels. Could be a very potential bike for me as a first since it is my size and could easily be ride ready with 700C wheels as I plan on doing possible centuries with it.










Last edited by Yelbom15; 10-28-21 at 08:21 AM.
Yelbom15 is offline  
Likes For Yelbom15:
Old 10-28-21, 12:32 PM
  #19  
beech333
Fuji Fan
 
beech333's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Oswego, Il
Posts: 1,759

Bikes: Was Fuji and got my grails (Pro, Pro SR, Design Series, & Ti). Now I hunt 50's and older road bikes.

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
Liked 41 Times in 36 Posts
If you are looking for someone that ships out of France, I have had good experiences with these sellers, but YMMV.

https://www.ebay.fr/sch/i.html?_nkw=...g=100&_fosrp=1


This one does not have anything currently listed and nothing recent, but did have reasonably activity a while ago.
https://www.ebay.fr/sch/i.html?_nkw=...g=100&_fosrp=1
beech333 is offline  
Likes For beech333:
Old 10-28-21, 02:41 PM
  #20  
Road Fan
Senior Member
 
Road Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,036

Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8

Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1505 Post(s)
Liked 409 Times in 318 Posts
Originally Posted by Yelbom15 View Post
iab Your bike, the 1915 Rola, is incredible really and is exactly what Iíve been drooling over lately. I found your post on it as well. If you donít mind me asking, how much did you pay you friend for this one? Do you heavily source most of your collection from over seas such as eBay France?

I take it if you did want to fiddle around town with these, you slap on aluminum clinchers or something similar close to the era?

brewerkz Didnít even think of that. The amount of abandoned bikes due to men leaving to fight mustíve left thousands to be snagged up.

Here is a Jean Thomann for around 1300.00. Iíve been told many of times that the price is up to the eye of the beholder.


Brewkerkz, When I was a kid my mother would talk about American families at home during WW2 having to turn in steel, iron, and copper objects for the war effort - plowshares to be beaten into swords, if not Colt 45 pistols. It wasn't just the moms of the soldiers saying "let's get all that junk out of the house." It was the US Department of Defense saying "We need all the nonessential steel to make into weapons."

If the Nazis had the logistics and aircraft range (to fly 8000-mile round trips between Germany and Chicago) to attack ships sailing the Great Lakes they could have interdicted deliveries of iron ore to Chicago where a gigantic steel-making capability was located, in Northern Indiana Unlucky for them, the US and UK were closer to the German manufacturing and were capable of striking and taking down much of Nazi manufacturing, starting with steel and items such as ball bearings, and some of the major power generation capability,
Road Fan is offline  
Likes For Road Fan:
Old 10-28-21, 04:19 PM
  #21  
martl
Strong Walker
 
martl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 1,169

Bikes: too many

Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 263 Post(s)
Liked 324 Times in 177 Posts
Originally Posted by Yelbom15 View Post
May have just found someone from France willing to ship. Weíre talking about it ďgoogle translateĒ such as a bank transfer and using Colissmo to ship. Sound like he may have shipped out before. Here are some photos.

Seller says it could be a mid 1920s production. A 57cm with 700b wheels. Could be a very potential bike for me as a first since it is my size and could easily be ride ready with 700C wheels as I plan on doing possible centuries with it.
I bought a similar Peugeot from eBay a couple of years ago. Interestingly enough, mine also only has a rear brake - i always thought the front one had been lost somehow but since these bikes have very oval fork blades, I haven't found one that fits yet.
THis sort of bike was apparently sold for a longer period, about between 1905 and the late twenties. The head badge can be used to narrow that down (Tonton velo has a link somewhere). This might be both older than mine and a "racer" whereas mine is a half racer.
I believe the true racers had those head lugs, mine is lugless. Half racers often shared the base frame with other models of the more utilitarian sort so there are some fakes out there where someone just removed fenders and racks.
I love the shape of the handlebars on thi/your one, a cool find! Might be challenging to ride, if the rear hub has no "fixed" option, mine is not flip flop so effectively no braking.
Peugeots had branded cranks with the lion motive, also hubs were stamped Peugeot and rims had a small badge riveted on.





Last edited by martl; 10-28-21 at 04:28 PM.
martl is offline  
Likes For martl:
Old 10-28-21, 07:30 PM
  #22  
Yelbom15
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Yelbom15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked 62 Times in 27 Posts
martl That is a gorgeous one. Iím curious if this bike Iím looking at is new then based on the wheel nuts. I take it they got rid of the butterfly axle nut and stuck with solid axle nuts further down the road? Maybe someone snagged them and replaced them with solid nuts on this bike.

Iím currently having difficulty talking to the owner. Heís responding to all my emails down to giving me all of his info. Name, address and bank info but nothing has been spoken about shipping cost or shipping in general. Just me addressing my interest to buy. I believe I even found him on Facebook. Do people typically just send the money first and then just pray to god that theyíre honest?

(badge shown looks to match 1905 to 1915 badges. Hmmm)

Last edited by Yelbom15; 10-28-21 at 08:39 PM.
Yelbom15 is offline  
Old 10-28-21, 10:41 PM
  #23  
kroozer 
vintage motor
 
kroozer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Tepic, Nayarit, Mexico
Posts: 1,466

Bikes: Automoto, Stallard, Rotrax, Jack Taylor, Atala, Lejeune, Motobecane x3, RIH, Zieleman, Raleigh, Windsor, Messina (Villata), Brazzo (Losa), Davidson, Diamondback x2, Kestrel

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 99 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 46 Times in 37 Posts
There is a big drop-off in availability of bikes and components when you go pre-1965 or so, although you can still find 1945-65 era stuff if you look around. I have enjoyed collecting some things from this period: it's challenging and different, but still doable and not too difficult, and it doesn't have to be overly expensive. And the bikes are quite road-worthy. Pre-1945 strikes me as a different level of hard-core for a collector: there is another, huge drop-off in availability, to the point of almost nothing. I have admittedly not done any serious searching for prewar equipment, but it is precisely the lack of bikes and parts that has discouraged me from extending the time-line back any further. Of course one can do it, but I'm not that committed. It seems like equipment from the 1930's is almost as rare as items from the turn of the century, and the theory of the wartime scrap metal campaigns makes a lot of sense. Probably a good bet would be to move to France for a while. It's a nice place to live, they made a lot of cool bikes, cars didn't replace bikes as completely as in the US, and they were overrun by the Nazis so quickly that there was no time for a scrap metal drive.
kroozer is offline  
Old 10-29-21, 05:47 AM
  #24  
martl
Strong Walker
 
martl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 1,169

Bikes: too many

Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 263 Post(s)
Liked 324 Times in 177 Posts
Originally Posted by Yelbom15 View Post
martl That is a gorgeous one. Iím curious if this bike Iím looking at is new then based on the wheel nuts. I take it they got rid of the butterfly axle nut and stuck with solid axle nuts further down the road? Maybe someone snagged them and replaced them with solid nuts on this bike.

Iím currently having difficulty talking to the owner. Heís responding to all my emails down to giving me all of his info. Name, address and bank info but nothing has been spoken about shipping cost or shipping in general. Just me addressing my interest to buy. I believe I even found him on Facebook. Do people typically just send the money first and then just pray to god that theyíre honest?

(badge shown looks to match 1905 to 1915 badges. Hmmm)
The one you showed us is the real deal as far as I can tell from the pictures. Only the headset is a newer replacement, way to modern looking. Sourcing that and a set of correct/correct-looking wing nuts should be possible!
​​​​​​
martl is offline  
Old 10-29-21, 08:34 AM
  #25  
sykerocker 
Senior Member
 
sykerocker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Ashland, VA
Posts: 4,417

Bikes: The keepers: 1958 Raleigh Lenton Grand Prix, 1968 Ranger, 1969 Magneet Sprint, 1971 Gitane Tour de France, 1973 Raleigh Tourist, 3 - 1986 Rossins, and a '77 PX-10 frame in process.

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 220 Post(s)
Liked 228 Times in 124 Posts
Following this thread with interest, as I've just picked up my first truly antique bicycle, although not something that falls within the interests of this group: A Twenties-something Emblem (made in upstate NY, probably sold in Canada) that's going to need a lot of work if I want to do anything with it (still debating). And a world of difference from my next closest antique effort, that 38 Humber I lost in the fire, which was completely modern by comparison:



Got on The CABE to figure out what I've gotten (that's where the interest is in these kinds of bikes), and to my shock was told pretty much what I have here is a parts bike. First off, its a woman's frame which kills a lot of the interest. Secondly, it's been repainted sometime in its life - a long time ago. Then I find out that the single most valuable parts on the bike are the tires, which are still in good enough shape for display purposes although they'll never hold air again. Next most valuable are the crankset and rear stand.

On these truly old bikes (both Europeans and American) what do you do for tires? I'm assuming the usual post-war sizes don't fit the rims (the tires on this bike are closer to sew-ups in design than clinchers).
__________________
Syke

ďNo one in this world, so far as I know ó and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me ó has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.Ē

H.L. Mencken, (1926)

sykerocker is offline  
Likes For sykerocker:

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.