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When to give up?

Old 11-13-21, 10:50 AM
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Nwvlvtnr
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When to give up?

I have a very nice PR10 and I love the way it rides but it has a problem. Ever since purchasing it there has been a very audible bottom bracket creak. After a lot of trial and error I discovered the non drive side bottom bracket shell was ovalized and no mater how securely the lock ring was tightened one could observe the bearings cup move if you putt some downward force on the left pedal.

Installing a Velo Orange threadless bottom bracket appeared to fix the problem but now after a few hundred miles and perhaps hastened by a few steep hill climbs the creak has returned. UghÖ

I tried swapping out pedals and even the crank just to be sure but itís the bottom bracket again. Itís not nearly as bad as when it had the original cup and cone BB buts itís there. Tightening the bottom bracket cups did not help any. I suppose I can live with it, resign the bike to wall hanger status or get around to putting my other PR10 together.


The 49d had to go when I went threadless

Earlier build before threadless BB
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Old 11-13-21, 11:38 AM
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I've had creak come from my saddle that drove me nuts for a while. I thought for sure it was cranks or pedals or cup or crack or... I found out when I put the saddle on a different bike.
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Old 11-13-21, 11:46 AM
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Frame builder?
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Old 11-13-21, 12:00 PM
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I've got one that creaks too. Love to know the answer to fixing it!
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Old 11-13-21, 12:05 PM
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Couldn't a frame builder add brazing material to threads and rethread afterwards?
Granted, you'd have to repaint the bottom bracket but that shouldn't be that big a job
Edit: Perhaps you could post a thread on the frame builder forum. Or, post on mechanics forum. Not sure but think Andy Stewart has frame building experience as well as mechanical.

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Old 11-13-21, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Nwvlvtnr View Post
I have a very nice PR10 and I love the way it rides but it has a problem. Ever since purchasing it there has been a very audible bottom bracket creak. After a lot of trial and error I discovered the non drive side bottom bracket shell was ovalized and no mater how securely the lock ring was tightened one could observe the bearings cup move if you putt some downward force on the left pedal.

Installing a Velo Orange threadless bottom bracket appeared to fix the problem but now after a few hundred miles and perhaps hastened by a few steep hill climbs the creak has returned. Ugh…

I tried swapping out pedals and even the crank just to be sure but it’s the bottom bracket again. It’s not nearly as bad as when it had the original cup and cone BB buts it’s there. Tightening the bottom bracket cups did not help any. I suppose I can live with it, resign the bike to wall hanger status or get around to putting my other PR10 together.
Super glue gel for Loctite, a perfect fitting wrench and 4ft. breaker bar held securely in place with washers and crank bolt, clamp, etc. then JB Weld if still creaking and you are absolutely positive its the BB.

Yes, this is a last resort, yes it may be too permanent but here you are.

Oh, and never give up, whatever doesn't kill you.....
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Old 11-13-21, 12:19 PM
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Creaks in and out of the saddle, I would rule out any frame building and repaint as decent French bicycles are pretty common and don’t fetch hardly any money where I live (this one cost me $40), I do have another PR10 hanging in the garage. I also have three PX10s I’ve yet to put together…
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Old 11-13-21, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by merziac View Post
Super glue gel for Loctite, a perfect fitting wrench and 4ft. breaker bar held securely in place with washers and crank bolt, clamp, etc. then JB Weld if still creaking and you are absolutely positive its the BB.

Yes, this is a last resort, yes it may be too permanent but here you are.

Oh, and never give up, whatever doesn't kill you.....
The whole appeal of this one is the original paint and while I love it it isnít worth much. I may try this.
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Old 11-13-21, 12:33 PM
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Bb cups creak / ovalized bb

3 or 4 turns of Teflon thread tape will solve your problem
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Old 11-13-21, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Nwvlvtnr View Post
Creaks in and out of the saddle, I would rule out any frame building and repaint as decent French bicycles are pretty common and donít fetch hardly any money where I live (this one cost me $40), I do have another PR10 hanging in the garage. I also have three PX10s Iíve yet to put togetherÖ
These poor Peugeots, I have 6 I think, 2 PX-10's, 3 PR-10's and another 1 or 2 lesser ones. All the ones I was excited about were/are in rough shape except the other PX-10.

The first PX-10 I got was hammered, 9/16's pedals forced into the crank and DS BB cup cross threaded very badly about half way in. Got it all apart, chased/reworked all the threads and got it all back to good, may still need to Super glue the cup but I got it very tight once it was straightened out.
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Old 11-13-21, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by TPL View Post
3 or 4 turns of Teflon thread tape will solve your problem
I may try that.
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Old 11-13-21, 12:59 PM
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Time to also check for cracks.
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Old 11-13-21, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post
Time to also check for cracks.
On mine I looked at everything. It would even be quiet for a bit if I repacked the bottom bracket. I am thinking about a new french threaded cartridge bb but right now the frameset is hanging from a hook in my basement of velo-horrors.
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Old 11-13-21, 01:31 PM
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Re-thread to Italian?
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Old 11-13-21, 07:30 PM
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Well what do I have to lose? I feel like a total hack but the I took the threadless bottom bracket apart and added a film of 2 part epoxy to the shell threads. If successful the JB weld will assist the expansion sleeves more by filling in the voids between them and the shell than by glueing them in place. With any luck it will all come apart again someday but I’ve likely limited the life of the frame to service life of the bottom bracket. I’ll report back tomorrow night. No apparent cracks or damage to the shell.
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Old 11-13-21, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post
Time to also check for cracks.
Both of my BB creaks were due to frame cracks -- Nishiki Competition on the BB shell's seat tube lug, UO-8 on the right chainstay between the chainring and tire clearance dimples.
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Old 11-14-21, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Nwvlvtnr View Post
I have a very nice PR10 and I love the way it rides but it has a problem. Ever since purchasing it there has been a very audible bottom bracket creak. After a lot of trial and error I discovered the non drive side bottom bracket shell was ovalized and no mater how securely the lock ring was tightened one could observe the bearings cup move if you putt some downward force on the left pedal.

Installing a Velo Orange threadless bottom bracket appeared to fix the problem but now after a few hundred miles and perhaps hastened by a few steep hill climbs the creak has returned. Ugh…

I tried swapping out pedals and even the crank just to be sure but it’s the bottom bracket again. It’s not nearly as bad as when it had the original cup and cone BB buts it’s there. Tightening the bottom bracket cups did not help any. I suppose I can live with it, resign the bike to wall hanger status or get around to putting my other PR10 together.


The 49d had to go when I went threadless

Earlier build before threadless BB
I haven't had this, but I think that if you have a BB shell which is concentric with the BB cups and it's tightened properly, this should not happen. It could also be related to the BB cup not fitting tightly to the faces of the BB shell. If you can find a LBS who can reface and thread-chase the BB and properly torque the cups in, that should restore the needed alignments without affecting your paint. This will need French-threaded taps. You could also rethread the BB shell to English, then install any of the broad range of current bottom brackets.

If this doesn't work, then you need a real frames expert.

Last edited by Road Fan; 11-14-21 at 10:21 AM.
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Old 11-14-21, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by rccardr View Post
Re-thread to Italian?
That was actually my thought since the French stuff usually is a bit smaller...and the bottom bracket is probably pretty hefty on that Peugeot.

They are both 70mm arenít they?
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Old 11-14-21, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by TPL View Post
3 or 4 turns of Teflon thread tape will solve your problem
This actually works great. I learned about this from a bike shop that would do that with cheaper bikes that didn't have good fittings/quality control.

Be sure to grease just as well though!
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Old 11-14-21, 08:10 AM
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Just curious - why did you go with threadless, instead of the French-threaded BBs also sold by Velo Orange?
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Old 11-14-21, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Road Fan View Post
I haven't had this, but I think if you have a BB shell which is concentric with the BB cups and it's tightened properly, this should not happen. It could also be related to the BB cup not fitting tightly to the faces of the BB shell. If you can find a LBS who can reface and thread-chase the BB, that should restore the needed alignments without affecting your paint. This will need French -threaded taps.

An alternative might be to do that work, rethreading the BB shell to English, so you can then choose from the broad range of current modern bottom brackets. Hundreds of different parts would be open to you, and one of the major detriments of French bikes would be eliminated. It's a minor loss to the universe of vintage bicycles, but a huge improvement to the universe of your vintage bicycle!
Have you done this before? I worry about having enough stock left for strength with the threads cross cutting.
I have rethreaded a Raleigh 26tpi to 24 with great success so perhaps it is possible.
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Old 11-14-21, 08:32 AM
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When I first put the bike together I tried at least two different cups on the non drive side to no effect, the final straw came when I observed the bearing cup moving when I applied moderate downward force to the left pedal. Lock tight did not help any. I would rule out re threading it or any other similar method unless I had the tooling myself as the cost of such a repair would no doubt far exceed the value of a PR10, even a nice one. I do have a 35 X 1 RH tap. I went with the threadless for two reasons one: I don’t know how the cup could move inside the shell if we’re not oversized and or ovalized and two: it has Swiss threads, I did mention that earlier.
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Old 11-14-21, 09:06 AM
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I had a PR10L chased and faced last summer, it had a bunged threads on the NDS. I could not feed the cup to the frame before. I tossed the old NDS cup, actually I chunked the old bb and put on a used Stronglight Competition bb.

Mine is a few years older here's a snapshot of it.


Looking at your bike, I don't think I would be comfortable with the handlebars forward tilting. The most angle forward I would have would be the bottom level with toptube. Do you set your bikes bars like that or has that shifted from use?

And since you mentioned other bikes you are now unofficially obligated to post pictures of them all.

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Old 11-14-21, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by WGB View Post
Couldn't a frame builder add brazing material to threads and rethread afterwards?
Granted, you'd have to repaint the bottom bracket but that shouldn't be that big a job.
That's one way to deal with it. Another would be to ream the shell and cut fresh Italian threads into the shell. That wouldn't require a repaint.
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Old 11-14-21, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Nwvlvtnr View Post
I went with the threadless for two reasons one: I donít know how the cup could move inside the shell if weíre not oversized and or ovalized and two: it has Swiss threads, I did mention that earlier.
Swiss thread differs from French thread only on the drive side; Swiss is 35 x 1 left-hand thread while French is 35 x 1 right-hand thread.
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