When to give up?
11-13-21, 10:50 AM
#1
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When to give up?
I have a very nice PR10 and I love the way it rides but it has a problem. Ever since purchasing it there has been a very audible bottom bracket creak. After a lot of trial and error I discovered the non drive side bottom bracket shell was ovalized and no mater how securely the lock ring was tightened one could observe the bearings cup move if you putt some downward force on the left pedal.
Installing a Velo Orange threadless bottom bracket appeared to fix the problem but now after a few hundred miles and perhaps hastened by a few steep hill climbs the creak has returned. Ugh…
I tried swapping out pedals and even the crank just to be sure but it’s the bottom bracket again. It’s not nearly as bad as when it had the original cup and cone BB buts it’s there. Tightening the bottom bracket cups did not help any. I suppose I can live with it, resign the bike to wall hanger status or get around to putting my other PR10 together.
The 49d had to go when I went threadless
Earlier build before threadless BB
Installing a Velo Orange threadless bottom bracket appeared to fix the problem but now after a few hundred miles and perhaps hastened by a few steep hill climbs the creak has returned. Ugh…
I tried swapping out pedals and even the crank just to be sure but it’s the bottom bracket again. It’s not nearly as bad as when it had the original cup and cone BB buts it’s there. Tightening the bottom bracket cups did not help any. I suppose I can live with it, resign the bike to wall hanger status or get around to putting my other PR10 together.
The 49d had to go when I went threadless
Earlier build before threadless BB
11-13-21, 11:38 AM
#2
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I've had creak come from my saddle that drove me nuts for a while. I thought for sure it was cranks or pedals or cup or crack or... I found out when I put the saddle on a different bike.
11-13-21, 11:46 AM
#3
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Frame builder?
11-13-21, 12:00 PM
#4
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I've got one that creaks too. Love to know the answer to fixing it!
11-13-21, 12:05 PM
#5
WGB
Couldn't a frame builder add brazing material to threads and rethread afterwards?
Granted, you'd have to repaint the bottom bracket but that shouldn't be that big a job
Edit: Perhaps you could post a thread on the frame builder forum. Or, post on mechanics forum. Not sure but think Andy Stewart has frame building experience as well as mechanical.
Granted, you'd have to repaint the bottom bracket but that shouldn't be that big a job
Edit: Perhaps you could post a thread on the frame builder forum. Or, post on mechanics forum. Not sure but think Andy Stewart has frame building experience as well as mechanical.
Last edited by WGB; 11-13-21 at 12:12 PM.
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11-13-21, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Nwvlvtnr
I have a very nice PR10 and I love the way it rides but it has a problem. Ever since purchasing it there has been a very audible bottom bracket creak. After a lot of trial and error I discovered the non drive side bottom bracket shell was ovalized and no mater how securely the lock ring was tightened one could observe the bearings cup move if you putt some downward force on the left pedal.
Installing a Velo Orange threadless bottom bracket appeared to fix the problem but now after a few hundred miles and perhaps hastened by a few steep hill climbs the creak has returned. Ugh…
I tried swapping out pedals and even the crank just to be sure but it’s the bottom bracket again. It’s not nearly as bad as when it had the original cup and cone BB buts it’s there. Tightening the bottom bracket cups did not help any. I suppose I can live with it, resign the bike to wall hanger status or get around to putting my other PR10 together.
Installing a Velo Orange threadless bottom bracket appeared to fix the problem but now after a few hundred miles and perhaps hastened by a few steep hill climbs the creak has returned. Ugh…
I tried swapping out pedals and even the crank just to be sure but it’s the bottom bracket again. It’s not nearly as bad as when it had the original cup and cone BB buts it’s there. Tightening the bottom bracket cups did not help any. I suppose I can live with it, resign the bike to wall hanger status or get around to putting my other PR10 together.
Yes, this is a last resort, yes it may be too permanent but here you are.
Oh, and never give up, whatever doesn't kill you.....
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11-13-21, 12:19 PM
#7
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Creaks in and out of the saddle, I would rule out any frame building and repaint as decent French bicycles are pretty common and don’t fetch hardly any money where I live (this one cost me $40), I do have another PR10 hanging in the garage. I also have three PX10s I’ve yet to put together…
11-13-21, 12:25 PM
#8
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Thread Starter
Originally Posted by merziac
Super glue gel for Loctite, a perfect fitting wrench and 4ft. breaker bar held securely in place with washers and crank bolt, clamp, etc. then JB Weld if still creaking and you are absolutely positive its the BB.
Yes, this is a last resort, yes it may be too permanent but here you are.
Oh, and never give up, whatever doesn't kill you.....
Yes, this is a last resort, yes it may be too permanent but here you are.
Oh, and never give up, whatever doesn't kill you.....
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11-13-21, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Nwvlvtnr
Creaks in and out of the saddle, I would rule out any frame building and repaint as decent French bicycles are pretty common and don’t fetch hardly any money where I live (this one cost me $40), I do have another PR10 hanging in the garage. I also have three PX10s I’ve yet to put together…
The first PX-10 I got was hammered, 9/16's pedals forced into the crank and DS BB cup cross threaded very badly about half way in. Got it all apart, chased/reworked all the threads and got it all back to good, may still need to Super glue the cup but I got it very tight once it was straightened out.
11-13-21, 12:58 PM
#11
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Originally Posted by TPL
3 or 4 turns of Teflon thread tape will solve your problem
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11-13-21, 01:02 PM
#13
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Originally Posted by repechage
Time to also check for cracks.
11-13-21, 01:31 PM
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Re-thread to Italian?
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11-13-21, 07:30 PM
#15
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Well what do I have to lose? I feel like a total hack but the I took the threadless bottom bracket apart and added a film of 2 part epoxy to the shell threads. If successful the JB weld will assist the expansion sleeves more by filling in the voids between them and the shell than by glueing them in place. With any luck it will all come apart again someday but I’ve likely limited the life of the frame to service life of the bottom bracket. I’ll report back tomorrow night. No apparent cracks or damage to the shell.
11-13-21, 08:02 PM
#16
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Originally Posted by repechage
Time to also check for cracks.
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Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
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"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
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11-14-21, 07:26 AM
#17
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Originally Posted by Nwvlvtnr
I have a very nice PR10 and I love the way it rides but it has a problem. Ever since purchasing it there has been a very audible bottom bracket creak. After a lot of trial and error I discovered the non drive side bottom bracket shell was ovalized and no mater how securely the lock ring was tightened one could observe the bearings cup move if you putt some downward force on the left pedal.
Installing a Velo Orange threadless bottom bracket appeared to fix the problem but now after a few hundred miles and perhaps hastened by a few steep hill climbs the creak has returned. Ugh…
I tried swapping out pedals and even the crank just to be sure but it’s the bottom bracket again. It’s not nearly as bad as when it had the original cup and cone BB buts it’s there. Tightening the bottom bracket cups did not help any. I suppose I can live with it, resign the bike to wall hanger status or get around to putting my other PR10 together.
The 49d had to go when I went threadless
Earlier build before threadless BB
Installing a Velo Orange threadless bottom bracket appeared to fix the problem but now after a few hundred miles and perhaps hastened by a few steep hill climbs the creak has returned. Ugh…
I tried swapping out pedals and even the crank just to be sure but it’s the bottom bracket again. It’s not nearly as bad as when it had the original cup and cone BB buts it’s there. Tightening the bottom bracket cups did not help any. I suppose I can live with it, resign the bike to wall hanger status or get around to putting my other PR10 together.
The 49d had to go when I went threadless
Earlier build before threadless BB
If this doesn't work, then you need a real frames expert.
Last edited by Road Fan; 11-14-21 at 10:21 AM.
11-14-21, 07:34 AM
#18
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Originally Posted by rccardr
Re-thread to Italian?
They are both 70mm aren’t they?
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1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1980s Vanni Losa Cassani thingy, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981? Faggin, Cannondale M500, etc...Need to do an N -1...
11-14-21, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by TPL
3 or 4 turns of Teflon thread tape will solve your problem
Be sure to grease just as well though!
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1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1980s Vanni Losa Cassani thingy, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981? Faggin, Cannondale M500, etc...Need to do an N -1...
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1980s Vanni Losa Cassani thingy, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981? Faggin, Cannondale M500, etc...Need to do an N -1...
11-14-21, 08:29 AM
#21
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Originally Posted by Road Fan
I haven't had this, but I think if you have a BB shell which is concentric with the BB cups and it's tightened properly, this should not happen. It could also be related to the BB cup not fitting tightly to the faces of the BB shell. If you can find a LBS who can reface and thread-chase the BB, that should restore the needed alignments without affecting your paint. This will need French -threaded taps.
An alternative might be to do that work, rethreading the BB shell to English, so you can then choose from the broad range of current modern bottom brackets. Hundreds of different parts would be open to you, and one of the major detriments of French bikes would be eliminated. It's a minor loss to the universe of vintage bicycles, but a huge improvement to the universe of your vintage bicycle!
An alternative might be to do that work, rethreading the BB shell to English, so you can then choose from the broad range of current modern bottom brackets. Hundreds of different parts would be open to you, and one of the major detriments of French bikes would be eliminated. It's a minor loss to the universe of vintage bicycles, but a huge improvement to the universe of your vintage bicycle!
I have rethreaded a Raleigh 26tpi to 24 with great success so perhaps it is possible.
11-14-21, 08:32 AM
#22
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When I first put the bike together I tried at least two different cups on the non drive side to no effect, the final straw came when I observed the bearing cup moving when I applied moderate downward force to the left pedal. Lock tight did not help any. I would rule out re threading it or any other similar method unless I had the tooling myself as the cost of such a repair would no doubt far exceed the value of a PR10, even a nice one. I do have a 35 X 1 RH tap. I went with the threadless for two reasons one: I don’t know how the cup could move inside the shell if we’re not oversized and or ovalized and two: it has Swiss threads, I did mention that earlier.
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11-14-21, 09:06 AM
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I had a PR10L chased and faced last summer, it had a bunged threads on the NDS. I could not feed the cup to the frame before. I tossed the old NDS cup, actually I chunked the old bb and put on a used Stronglight Competition bb.
Mine is a few years older here's a snapshot of it.
Looking at your bike, I don't think I would be comfortable with the handlebars forward tilting. The most angle forward I would have would be the bottom level with toptube. Do you set your bikes bars like that or has that shifted from use?
And since you mentioned other bikes you are now unofficially obligated to post pictures of them all.
Mine is a few years older here's a snapshot of it.
Looking at your bike, I don't think I would be comfortable with the handlebars forward tilting. The most angle forward I would have would be the bottom level with toptube. Do you set your bikes bars like that or has that shifted from use?
And since you mentioned other bikes you are now unofficially obligated to post pictures of them all.
11-14-21, 09:50 AM
#24
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Originally Posted by WGB
Couldn't a frame builder add brazing material to threads and rethread afterwards?
Granted, you'd have to repaint the bottom bracket but that shouldn't be that big a job.
Granted, you'd have to repaint the bottom bracket but that shouldn't be that big a job.
11-14-21, 09:54 AM
#25
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Originally Posted by Nwvlvtnr
I went with the threadless for two reasons one: I don’t know how the cup could move inside the shell if we’re not oversized and or ovalized and two: it has Swiss threads, I did mention that earlier.
