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Originally Posted by grant40
(Post 22321924)
from my understanding, the JcPenny bike had a cable that connected the brake lever to the caliper, in which the cable would operate a hydraulic piston that is on the caliper.
which look very much like those on the bike pictured: https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6eb2e0a607.jpg Mine are cable-operated, with a helix driving the pad. See also: https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...isc-brake.html |
Originally Posted by grant40
(Post 22321924)
from my understanding, the JcPenny bike had a cable that connected the brake lever to the caliper, in which the cable would operate a hydraulic piston that is on the caliper.
Tektro markets a disc caliper nowadays on the same concept. Top |
Originally Posted by steelbikeguy
(Post 22321962)
This had a freewheel at the crankset in addition to the usual freewheel on the rear wheel. This allowed the user to shift while coasting up to an intersection.
Steve in Peoria Shifting while coasting requires that the chain be driven by the rear sprocket; were it to freewheel, that would not happen. FFS only had the FW at the crank. |
Originally Posted by oneclick
(Post 22322324)
Um, no.
Shifting while coasting requires that the chain be driven by the rear sprocket; were it to freewheel, that would not happen. FFS only had the FW at the crank. the wikipedia page mentions: "The Shimano Front Freewheel (FFS) was a proprietary bicycle drivetrain design of the 1970s that placed a freewheel between the pedal cranks and the front chainrings — enabling the rider to shift gears while coasting.[1] FFS rear freewheel is different than a standard freewheel because it's "stiff" with more friction than a normal rear freewheel. It will slip if necessary however, to stop the chain in the event of, for example, a clothing tangle — which could otherwise lead to injuries of the leg by the drivetrain, crashing of the bicycle, or both." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Front_freewheel RJ the Bike Guy has a neat demo of the rear freewheeling mechanism. It's not just a stiffer freewheel, as I'd always heard. He demonstrates that each cog has the ability to freewheel independently, which both surprises me, and makes me wonder why. Steve in Peoria |
FFS had its place in the cycling universe. Derailleur operation mystified a lot of folks who did could not grasp "You must be pedaling when you shift" and coordinate the movements. FFS solved that and was widespread at the time, found on several models of many U.S and Asian brands. Many of those bikes also featured Positron derailleurs, the granddaddy of SIS. Maybe not desirable high-end stuff, but it certainly simplified and improved the cycling experience for a whole lot of folks.
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Originally Posted by thumpism
(Post 22322076)
Battaglin Pirana, with a front wheel designed to shield the rider's legs from airflow.
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Originally Posted by thumpism
(Post 22322377)
FFS had its place in the cycling universe. Derailleur operation mystified a lot of folks who did could not grasp "You must be pedaling when you shift" and coordinate the movements. FFS solved that and was widespread at the time, found on several models of many U.S and Asian brands. Many of those bikes also featured Positron derailleurs, the granddaddy of SIS. Maybe not desirable high-end stuff, but it certainly simplified and improved the cycling experience for a whole lot of folks.
Anyway, average people were indeed confused by derailleurs back then, and FFS, and probably Positron, were no doubt intended to make folks more comfortable with this new technology. Steve in Peoria |
Originally Posted by steelbikeguy
(Post 22322371)
not exactly.
the wikipedia page mentions: "The Shimano Front Freewheel (FFS) was a proprietary bicycle drivetrain design of the 1970s that placed a freewheel between the pedal cranks and the front chainrings — enabling the rider to shift gears while coasting.[1] FFS rear freewheel is different than a standard freewheel because it's "stiff" with more friction than a normal rear freewheel. It will slip if necessary however, to stop the chain in the event of, for example, a clothing tangle — which could otherwise lead to injuries of the leg by the drivetrain, crashing of the bicycle, or both." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Front_freewheel RJ the Bike Guy has a neat demo of the rear freewheeling mechanism. It's not just a stiffer freewheel, as I'd always heard. He demonstrates that each cog has the ability to freewheel independently, which both surprises me, and makes me wonder why. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J39t1IxAPcg Steve in Peoria What nobody really covers anywhere is the FFS rear cog can be substituted with a regular conventional freewheel if the FFS freewheel can not be found. The penalty is the loss of the shift-while-coasting function. The gain is the bike can remain in service. Another weird thing is the Ashtabula style bottom bracket cups are threaded, use a freewheel socket to remove, & have 2 different bearing sizes; The bigger bearing goes on the drive-side. The bearings will "fit" if swapped around, but there will be interference caused by the plastic-rubber dust shield, making proper bearing preload a problematic nightmare. Also the rubber shield will thwart the FFS freewheel action because the dust cap can physically touch the chainwheel & act as a chainwheel brake. The Freewheel mechanism is about what you'd expect. Regular servicing with Phil's Tenacious Oil keeps it quiet. |
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Originally Posted by steelbikeguy
(Post 22322510)
My recollection of the FFS was that it was trying to be similar to the more common three speed internal gear hubs, a.k.a. "English racers". Three speeds were kinda fancy, back when I was a kid. If I recall... didn't those allow you to shift while coasting to an intersection?
Anyway, average people were indeed confused by derailleurs back then, and FFS, and probably Positron, were no doubt intended to make folks more comfortable with this new technology. Steve in Peoria |
Here's a picture that I took almost 2 years ago. I believe it is a mid 80s Schwinn World Tourist with a 1×5 drivetrain.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1244c91349.jpg Same bike, but as singlespeed. I wonder if anyone has fitted a fixed gear rear wheel to one of these bikes. https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e412e73c20.jpg I've seen several schwin Varsity and Continental models with a one piece version of the front freewheel system. I recently saw an early 70s CCM with a front freewheel system that used cottered cranks. https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...62dff2997a.jpg |
And here it is in its cotterless glory on a Panasonic Tourist, available in 5- or 10-speed versions. I gave my sister a 5 with a baby seat on it when she had a kid.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a720d0aef1.jpg |
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Originally Posted by grant40
(Post 22322526)
I know a guy who sold Schwinns during the seventies bike boom and he said the same thing. He said that people had to thick of skulls to realize derailleurs cannot shift while coasting, unlike the 3 speeds that they are used to. This caused people to go back in the shop claiming that their bike is not working.
Schwinn dealers had a little gadget that could sit on the display counter and allow folks to practice the shifting process without having to worry about riding a bike at the same time. Plus, the person could see what was going on during shifts, which is much harder to do while riding the bike. One of the older shops in the area still has this one on display. https://live.staticflickr.com/7154/2...655683_c_d.jpg Considering how few people currently have experience with downtube shifters, maybe there is still a market for these training devices?? Steve in Peoria |
Wear And Tear Black Hole.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a127716da5.jpg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b95b2626f6.jpg https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...102a4f1ac1.jpg I also found this alternate design. https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3f2a79f79e.jpg |
Bike evolution occurred quickly in the early days, bringing us to the familiar "safety bicycle" configuration once the materials sciences made things like chains and ball bearings possible.
Still, some folks like to go back and take another look at some evolutionary paths, and Dan Henry was one such person. This is an article he wrote for Bicycling magazine in 1968, describing the recumbent that he designed (excerpted from The Best of Bicycling). https://live.staticflickr.com/7045/6...82054d_b_d.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/7093/6...46c059_b_d.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/7087/7...963ca8_b_d.jpg I do wonder how long it took Dan to decide that the 'bent needed full suspension. As a part-time 'bent rider myself, I know that potholes are a bit of a challenge, since you can't just stand up off the saddle to compensate. Steve in Peoria |
Have a Hypercycle.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...acbbc75d63.jpg |
Originally Posted by grant40
(Post 22322679)
Have a Hypercycle.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...acbbc75d63.jpg What could possibly go wrong? ;) Steve in Peoria |
from tiny wheels to large wheels.... correction: "wheel"
https://live.staticflickr.com/4884/3...d6b112_b_d.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/4896/3...c3b674_b_d.jpg as weird as it is, I'd love to see someone ride one in person! Steve in Peoria |
Some of you know about the Cinelli Bivalent hub system. It was a scheme to keep the freewheel mounted to the frame... Yep, Rene Herse used a hub called RAS in the 1946 Technical Trials, since points were awarded for not needing to touch the chain when changing a flat. I'm not sure if they developed it, or just used it. https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...aa672b0e86.png Diagram from Hub of the Universe by Tony Hadland. |
Originally Posted by steelbikeguy
(Post 22321423)
An early drivetrain concept for the safety bike was the shaft drive. Not a weird idea, really, but just not practical for bikes. Most used bevel gears at the end of the drive shaft. One novel technology was the Victor Spinroller. Instead of bevel gear teeth sliding past each other, the friction was reduced by using rollers for gear teeth. Not sure how practical this was, considering the many small rotating parts. It couldn't have been too bad...
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Originally Posted by steelbikeguy
(Post 22322707)
A 'bent that puts about 80% of the rider's weight over a tiny front wheel?
What could possibly go wrong? |
Originally Posted by steelbikeguy
(Post 22322711)
from tiny wheels to large wheels.... correction: "wheel"
https://live.staticflickr.com/4884/3...d6b112_b_d.jpg as weird as it is, I'd love to see someone ride one in person! Steve in Peoria https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b408b09e78.jpg 2008 Beijing Olympics Monocycle |
Originally Posted by grant40
(Post 22322528)
Here's a picture that I took almost 2 years ago. I believe it is a mid 80s Schwinn World Tourist with a 1×5 drivetrain.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1244c91349.jpg Same bike, but as singlespeed. I wonder if anyone has fitted a fixed gear rear wheel to one of these bikes. https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e412e73c20.jpg |
Originally Posted by grant40
(Post 22322615)
Wear And Tear Black Hole.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a127716da5.jpg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b95b2626f6.jpg https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...102a4f1ac1.jpg I also found this alternate design. https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3f2a79f79e.jpg |
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