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Parts spec 72 Raleigh

Old 11-27-21, 09:53 AM
  #1  
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Parts spec 72 Raleigh

Since I have a very clean Competition frame, I am pondering how to complete the build. I have other bikes I can ride, so I would kind of like to spec this out as close as I can. As we know, no catalog listing is out there, so I am asking you folks who have come across complete (or close) 72 Competitions, maybe 71's, what was on it? Headsets, BB, seat post, bars and stem? I am leaning mostly toward Simplex or Stronglight components. I have a 49D crank to start, but Stronglight parts are difficult to find in good shape and english threaded.
Of course, still need a fork!
Thanks
Tom.
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Old 11-27-21, 10:42 AM
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I didn't see the Competition listed in the 1972 catalog, but it was in the 1973 version.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/retroraleighs/index.html
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Old 11-27-21, 11:34 AM
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Hey Tom,

My 71 Comp (white/blue w/ Zeus dropouts) had a nice Zeus drivetrain, and I think Weinmann center pulls. I can dig out the box later and take pictures. Unfortunately I’m a couple size smaller than you, or my fork could be available.





-Nic

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Old 11-27-21, 03:45 PM
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I have seen lilac comps come like this one. With nervar crankset, simplex criterium derailleurs and with Zeus drops.
Attached Images
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Old 11-27-21, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by tfbike View Post
Since I have a very clean Competition frame, I am pondering how to complete the build. I have other bikes I can ride, so I would kind of like to spec this out as close as I can. As we know, no catalog listing is out there, so I am asking you folks who have come across complete (or close) 72 Competitions, maybe 71's, what was on it? Headsets, BB, seat post, bars and stem? I am leaning mostly toward Simplex or Stronglight components. I have a 49D crank to start, but Stronglight parts are difficult to find in good shape and english threaded.
Of course, still need a fork!
Thanks
Tom.

What length fork do you need? Does this have Huret dropouts? Lilac comp?
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Old 11-27-21, 04:43 PM
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As early 70's Raleighs were known to change dropouts, fork crowns, and lugs on frame and fork during the same model year, and weren't exactly consistent on their kit, it isn't necessary, and probably isn't even desirable to have the same components as OEM. Besides, people that actually rode them typically upgraded components before they left the shop.

As our motto here is "pix or it didn't happen", here's an example from someone I knew from my distant past that did just that:



Lots of period correct components that would work well with that frame.





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Old 11-27-21, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by gugie View Post
As early 70's Raleighs were known to change dropouts, fork crowns, and lugs on frame and fork during the same model year, and weren't exactly consistent on their kit, it isn't necessary, and probably isn't even desirable to have the same components as OEM. Besides, people that actually rode them typically upgraded components before they left the shop.

As our motto here is "pix or it didn't happen", here's an example from someone I knew from my distant past that did just that:



Lots of period correct components that would work well with that frame._K
Am I reading that right? Grand Compe “steam”?
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Old 11-27-21, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by RustyJames View Post
Am I reading that right? Grand Compe “steam”?
I've had that receipt for (obviously) several decades, first time I saw that. Blame it on my mechanic at the time, @Straightblock
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Old 11-27-21, 10:07 PM
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Competitions changed radically between those model years. I'm presuming yours is the later black model - which would have come with a sloping crowned fork. If this is the case, you have a good start on the components. In your situation, I'd attempt to source a fork before buying up more of other parts unless you can find some other use for them. Any chance of posting pictures?
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Old 11-28-21, 06:19 AM
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Barney Bike Novella



I'm assuming that tfbike 's frame is lilac - it could be white and blue too.

Between late 2017 and the beginning of 2018 there were a number of 1970's lilac Competitions being discussed online. They piqued my curiosity because I'd never seen one in the steel. Late one night in a fit of lilac envy I went onto eBay and sure enough, found a bare frame and a complete bike listed.

The frame looked to be in great shape but it didn't have the graceful slow fork rake of the complete bike (which had some rust under the top tube). In a sleepy stupor I made a Best Offer of what I thought was $200. When my offer posted I realized that my fat fingers typed $300 instead! By morning the seller jumped all over it and I was stuck.

It was listed as having been completely overhauled and ready to ride.... I thought that it would make a nice classic beater for the upcoming 2018 Eroica CA (which I ended not riding), also gravel grinding.

When I received the bike, it was far from being overhauled! It was obviously cobbled together with a mishmash of parts. The only things that didn't need to be repaired, replaced or overhauled were the Wheelsmith wheels with sealed bearing hubs and the cranks with a sealed bearing BB. I contacted the seller and sent him photos of the problems. He graciously gave me a substantial refund. I wont go into the details about the bike's condition but here's the eBay photo, purple plastic pedals and all!



Before I go any further, there is another thread on Raleigh Competition lugs that has a lot on info pertinent to this thread: 1973 Raleigh Competition with Nervex Lugs?

1970 - 1973 was the height of the US Bike Boom Fad. At the same time there were smaller booms going on in the UK, France and maybe outer countries. Frame building materials and components were in high demand and short supply. Raleigh was notorious among the big bike makers for using anything they could get - catalog specs out the window!

Zeus components were popular in the UK in the late 60's, early 70's because they were reasonably prices and offered a lot of bang for the pound.

The original1969 Raleigh Competitions came with Zeus Ref 32 Competition cranks. They were probably used on some 1970-1972 Competitions too. The chainring to crank arm bolt pattern looks just like the standard 50.4mm BCD used by TA, Stronglight 49 and many other cranks from way back when but the Zeus BCD is larger and non-interchangeable.



Raleigh also used Nervar 1004 cranks on some 1971-72 Competitions. They had the same industry standard 50.4mm BCD as TA and Stronglight 49 cranks. Photo from velo-pages.com



They used some Stronglight 93 cranks on a few 1971-72 Competitions too. They may have had chain guards like the Stronglight 93 used on the Gran Sports from those year too. Speaking of which, I suspect that some 1971-72 Competitions used the same frame as the Gran Sports with Zeus stamped steel dropouts and integral derailleur hangers.

1972 Gran Sport with Stronglight 93 cranks and chain guard. Zeus stamped steel dropouts.



Next thing, headsets... Again Raleigh used whatever was at hand. Probably, mostly UK made TDC brand.

They used this TDC "Continental" style up into the 1980's on a lot of different price range models.



Another TDC style



The headset on my 1971 Competition kept coming loose. When I tore it apart I discovered the problem, 2 things:

1. The steerer instead of being 1" (25.4mm) was a piece of seamed 25mm thin wall pipe. It had a sleeve brazed inside the bottom in the crown area like some French bikes. CHEAP! CHEAP! CHEAP!


2. The steerer was threaded 1" - 24 tpi by hand with a die. The threads were not parallel to the tube. There was no way the adjustable top cup was going to run parallel to the bottom cup! Add to that, the threads in the TDC headset were a loose fit even on a good steerer.



The way that I fixed the problem using hammersmith technology was to reface the head tube and fork crown and replace the headset with a NOS Tange Levin CDS. I carefully wrapped the steerer threads with aluminum foil as I applied layers of Loctite 660 Quick Metal Retaining Compound and then carefully installed the headset. It turns smoothly and has held up for several years now,



BACK TO THE OP'S QUESTION ABOUT COMPONENTS...

From 1969 through 1972 Raleigh Competitions were equipped with Simplex Delrin plastic Prestige derailleurs with cheap plastic shift levers. Someone mentioned the slightly better Simplex Criterium derailleurs but I've never seen any reference to them.

Why Simplex Prestige Derailleurs??? In 1967 Kevin O'donovan, Managing Director of Carlton Cycles (where Competitions were made) and Frank Donnelley of Raleigh visited the Simplex factory. There's a photo of O'donovan in Frank Berto's book "The Dancing Chain" using a crescent wrench to twist a Simplex Prestige RD held in a vise 90° without it breaking. They came to the wrong conclusion but that sold them on Simplex Delrin plastic derailleurs.

5 Speed 14-24T freewheels - various brands.

High flange Normandy Luxe Competition hubs with various brands of sewup rims and tires. Some may have come with "economy" Normandy Sport hubs.

Weinmann Vainqueur 999 center pull brakes were standard. Some Competitions came with Carlton badged white plastic brake lever hoods.

Brooks leather saddle - Pro or B17 with a straight aluminum alloy seat post.

Pedals? Who knows???

Hope this helps...

In conclusion, remember what I said above... During the boom, Raleigh used what ever that had or could get...

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Old 11-28-21, 08:49 AM
  #11  
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Thanks all for some great replies. I like the Zeus components, but of course they are tough to source in nice shape, or pricey. I have noticed Nervar cranks, but not the one's with the 50.4 bolt circle. I had noticed on previous threads some mention of Stronglight 49D, and with the 50.4 gives a lot of options for chain rings. I like the slimmer crank arms. I realize that I can pretty much do as I wish given the variation of components used, but kind of want to keep it all European. Even though Tange makes a headset (Bear trap I think) that looks really traditional. It has been mentioned to me the original head set was a Brampton Allivet? Good luck finding one of those. Stronglight will be a nice choice, but an earlier Competition (why not) will look more traditional than a later A9.
This is a Lilac edition, F serial #, forged Zeus rear drop.
I had mentioned in a previous thread I have a fork, usable, but would like to find the correct fork. My insane hope is to turn up the actual missing fork out there! I know, but if I don't ask?
I think I need a few more posts before I can put up pics, but they will come.
Thanks
Tom.
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Old 11-28-21, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by USAZorro View Post
Competitions changed radically between those model years. I'm presuming yours is the later black model - which would have come with a sloping crowned fork. If this is the case, you have a good start on the components. In your situation, I'd attempt to source a fork before buying up more of other parts unless you can find some other use for them. Any chance of posting pictures?
If it's the black competition with capella lugs I can help with original equipment.
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Old 11-28-21, 09:48 AM
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I'd avoid simplex derailleurs even if they were original equipment. Campy is easy to source and less problematic even if a simplex RD shifts better but the FD are problematic unless you find an all metal one which won't be period correct. But the best vintage RD is a suntour. A Shimano crane is also very good. Huret derailleurs tend to be available and some are quite good.

A 50.4 bcd crank gives you solid choices for gearing.

Weinmann center pull brakes aren't hard to source.

There are plenty of quality 27 inch wheels with high flange hubs out there if you are willing to pay shipping. I have a good set of wheels with normandy luxe hubs but one of the cones is slightly pitted and replacements are unobtanium. You might want to go with the normandy sport hub since cones tend to be easier to track down for those hubs. Also you might want to buy a pair of quality high flange hubs and build 700c wheels.
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Old 11-28-21, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
I'd avoid simplex derailleurs even if they were original equipment. Campy is easy to source and less problematic even if a simplex RD shifts better but the FD are problematic unless you find an all metal one which won't be period correct. But the best vintage RD is a suntour. A Shimano crane is also very good. Huret derailleurs tend to be available and some are quite good.
BITD the most common upgrade to the Simplex plastic derailleurs was SunTour, mostly the V series, as I recall. Tons were sold, tons are still availble in decent shape. I'd guess that a good percentage of BF C&V members have one or more floating around in their bike bins, as I do, so that's easy to source.
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Old 11-28-21, 04:05 PM
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tfbike I think there was a set of Vainqueur 999s and a set of 27" wheels with Weinmann rims and high flange Normandy hubs on a 70s Puch I picked up recently for parts. Let me know if you'd like more info on those.
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Old 11-28-21, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by gugie View Post
I've had that receipt for (obviously) several decades, first time I saw that. Blame it on my mechanic at the time, @Straightblock
Nah, I recognize the shop owner's handwriting and initials "JT." I didn't write up the sale, I just turned the wrenches
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Old 11-29-21, 09:09 AM
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Here are pictures.


I do not believe it has been built. Yeah, I know Raleigh's brazing wasn't the best.


I did chase the threads, but no wheel has been here. Zeus drops have adj holes.

Too much overspray to have been assembled.

This is a stand in fork, most likely P13 Paramount. I got lucky on color matching. Chrome is perfect.

No marks anywhere.
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Old 11-29-21, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by tfbike View Post

I do not believe it has been built. Yeah, I know Raleigh's brazing wasn't the best.


I did chase the threads, but no wheel has been here. Zeus drops have adj holes.

Too much overspray to have been assembled.

This is a stand in fork, most likely P13 Paramount. I got lucky on color matching. Chrome is perfect.

No marks anywhere.
Good Lord!

That's the most awesomely well-preserved Lilac Competition I've ever seen.

That most likely would have originally come with the Zeus components mentioned upthread (post #10)..
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Old 11-29-21, 07:00 PM
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What size is the frame?
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Old 11-29-21, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Straightblock View Post
Nah, I recognize the shop owner's handwriting and initials "JT." I didn't write up the sale, I just turned the wrenches
😇

Wow, this thread is really steering off course….

That lilac color is fantastic!!
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Old 11-29-21, 09:07 PM
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Actually measured at 24 1/4, c-t. It was listed as a 24 1/2, close enough.
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Old 11-30-21, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by tfbike View Post
Actually measured at 24 1/4, c-t. It was listed as a 24 1/2, close enough.
Beautiful bike. That is a tall bike. I have a 22 and 1/2 lilac comp frame that I was thinking of selling.
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Old 11-30-21, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by gugie View Post
As early 70's Raleighs were known to change dropouts, fork crowns, and lugs on frame and fork during the same model year, and weren't exactly consistent on their kit, it isn't necessary, and probably isn't even desirable to have the same components as OEM. Besides, people that actually rode them typically upgraded components before they left the shop.

As our motto here is "pix or it didn't happen", here's an example from someone I knew from my distant past that did just that:



Lots of period correct components that would work well with that frame.





@Andy_K
A customer who KNEW what he wanted.
In the 74-77 time frame, many customers liked the ride of a European frame but wanted Japanese shifting, stem shifters etc.
Easy, we will switch things out for you. Lots of take off Simplex Prestige mechanisms for use in service jobs at a discount.
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