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Vintage build wheel help: Dura Ace or Campy and rims

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Vintage build wheel help: Dura Ace or Campy and rims

Old 12-04-21, 09:22 AM
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sd5782 
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Vintage build wheel help: Dura Ace or Campy and rims

I have posted about a recent project, a 72 Fuji Newest. It came with mismatched 27" rims on some very nice early Dura Ace low flange hubs. This bike would have had high flange, but these hubs spin SO nice.



nice and appropriate



this has to go

So off to the co-op I went looking for a 36h front to match the rear. It is a small co-op and didn't have much. 2 nice 40 hole sets and a few tubular, but the hubs I have are 36, and I didn't want to venture tubular either.. I found a nice 700 which would be the wiser choice if I could find another. I forgot to mention that I already have a new set of Panaracer Paselas in 27"



maybe I will find another sometime

So, I started looking around at the laced up sets to find some rims that were a pair with the idea of just breaking them down for the rims. I spied a matching high flange set thinking they were the usual co-op Normandy hubs. Nope they were Campy and had some Super Champion rims, but were 27". I wasn't too familiar with the rims, but for a give away price I bought the set. Far from perfect though.



Super Champion before Wolber



Record from 1975



Cleaned up one spot

Sorry for the poor pics. The rear has a few damaged spokes from what appears to be a dropped chain. The outer edge of the rear rim seems to have a bit of bevel outside of whats left of the dimpled brake tracks. The hubs seem fine but need greased and bearings and one side of the rear has a few minor pits. Lacing is 4 cross with butted spokes.



some bent spokes



wear or damage?




So, research shows these model 58 rims to be strong but heavy. Interestingly, the Dura Ace wheel weighs 1049 grams on my scale, and the Campy is 991 grams. I was bit surprised. Would this be a decent choice for this sportier 72 Fuji? I will clean them up and tighten the spokes. I will either see if the co-op has a couple of these longish spokes or take the bent ones out and straighten them. I won't be out much now but my cheap labor. The bike would certainly look more appropriate with the high flange hubs. Those Dura Ace are SO SMOOTH though.
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Old 12-04-21, 09:33 AM
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I think I'd want to stick with Japanese hubs if it were me, although the Campy high flange of course will look great and last forever. When do the Dura-Ace hubs date from?
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Old 12-04-21, 09:33 AM
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Your new Campy set is pretty neat, the spokes don’t look too beat up, I wouldn’t replace any and you already have tires. Are they the folding paselas?

Later, you can put some TB-14s on your Dura Ace hubs.
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Old 12-04-21, 09:41 AM
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Actually, the Paselas are wire bead as I got them for one of my vintage Schwinns. The Super Champions are hooked though. Yeah, this would get it rideable as the project progresses just to see if the bike pleases me. I wouldn’t want to put much money into in until then.
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Old 12-04-21, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by pace551 View Post
I think I'd want to stick with Japanese hubs if it were me, although the Campy high flange of course will look great and last forever. When do the Dura-Ace hubs date from?
Not sure of the date on the Dura Ace. Is there a date code somewhere? Velo base showed them as first generation which is maybe 73-77. When the bike was new, it was specced with Sansin maybe IIRC. Most of its components were mid grade when new from my research. The bike came to me very well used with a mix of parts. I have posted on it recently. The replacement parts were all of higher quality than stock. With that in mind, I am trying to use upgraded parts of late 70s if possible for a start. It was too scratched up to be a real looker, but good enough for a homage restoration. That matches my skill level too.
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Old 12-04-21, 09:52 AM
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I am a high flange fan so I'd go with those wheels, they would look like a typical replacement / upgrade for the era too I think.
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Old 12-04-21, 11:05 AM
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+1 on riding the high flanges as long as they last. They are appropriate for the era and the Campys were a common upgrade for the time. Rule of thumb buying/ selling at time in the 70s was “ buy the best frame you can and upgrade components as you can afford them.” So even with the Campy hubs you will have a bike that is true to the time.
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Old 12-04-21, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Spadoni View Post
+1 on riding the high flanges as long as they last. They are appropriate for the era and the Campys were a common upgrade for the time. Rule of thumb buying/ selling at time in the 70s was “ buy the best frame you can and upgrade components as you can afford them.” So even with the Campy hubs you will have a bike that is true to the time.
I'm a fan of the logical, period correct upgrade as well. Serious buyers of bikes, back in the day, would often upgrade what they had. Vintage Campy hubs are the best, most durable. Despite how they spin, a close inspection of the cones on the DA hubs could be revealing. I find a lot of worn cones on Shimano hubs, but only rarely on Campy.
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Old 12-04-21, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by sd5782 View Post
Actually, the Paselas are wire bead as I got them for one of my vintage Schwinns. The Super Champions are hooked though. Yeah, this would get it rideable as the project progresses just to see if the bike pleases me. I wouldn’t want to put much money into in until then.
Those Model 58's are sort of hooked, not like the other Super Champ Gentleman rims or other Mavic module 3's etc.
They are fine for wired on Paselas. not sure I would run above 85psi.

Before you tighten up the spokes, I would loosen them a bit then oil. AND while I cannot tell, check the freewheel threading... If French, you have some searching to do. Early hubs were not marked,
French often had two machined rings just beyond where the freewheel faces against, BUT NOT always.
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Old 12-04-21, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post
Those Model 58's are sort of hooked, not like the other Super Champ Gentleman rims or other Mavic module 3's etc.
They are fine for wired on Paselas. not sure I would run above 85psi.

Before you tighten up the spokes, I would loosen them a bit then oil. AND while I cannot tell, check the freewheel threading... If French, you have some searching to do. Early hubs were not marked,
French often had two machined rings just beyond where the freewheel faces against, BUT NOT always.
Yes, a pretty good rim bead on these. I like to run these 1 1/4” at perhaps 75 psi max. I am 170 lbs, but watch the road and avoid pinch flats. As to the spokes, the threads seemed free on a half dozen I checked, but some cleaning and WD40 and some oil will be involved. Spent a couple hours on the rear today already cleaning. I will take the few bent spokes off and straighten and smooth out the gouges before bringing spokes tension up.

As to the freewheel, I took a vintage Suntour off of it. Unusual gear spacing of 14-16-20-24-32. One groove on the hub indicating English threading from what I have read. I haven’t checked cones on the front yet. I just retired, so this project is a nice way to spend the winter. Thanks for the input. Frame paint touch up will be more of a challenge to my limited patience.
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Old 12-09-21, 12:43 PM
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Campy cones

Didn’t want to start a new thread, so hoping for some advice to perhaps source these Record cones. The fronts are of course for the 7/32” bearings. One sides bearings came out copper colored as from overheating from what I have read. One perfect cone, and one with minor pitting.

On the rear, both with pretty minor pitting. 1975 rear, 1974 front. I have read about polishing out the minor pitting and I do have a mini lathe to chuck them into. Some internet rumors stated that they are hardened more than just surface.

I see some for sale on eBay, but they list 10-26SU, and 10-26 32/. Are those last numbers just referring to diameter and length? I also see stuff listed for campy in the 90s, so I am not sure about interchangeability. I will go to the co-op, but I would be surprised to find something like that, but who knows? The rear skewer was also missing the locking cam lever and end. Pointers appreciated.
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Old 12-09-21, 12:49 PM
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Old 12-09-21, 01:43 PM
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Thanks

Originally Posted by repechage View Post
That explains the 35/R. Am I to assume then that parts listed for Nuovo Record are the same as for these early Record hubs?
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Old 12-09-21, 02:08 PM
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Never mind, I did some searching and answered my own question. Learning, learning. Should be fun, and I may have to see if I want to replace the spokes with stainless too if it turns out well enough. I’ve built one wheel, so these may be worthy of more learning. I think my co-op had some boxes of vintage spokes too.
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