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Can Anyone Identify This Columbus Frame?

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Can Anyone Identify This Columbus Frame?

Old 12-10-21, 01:20 PM
  #26  
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And per the OP the cups holding this French Stronglight BB unit are Campy (RH threaded but in a 68mm wide shell).
So I am confused by the seeming "united nations" of Country of Origin clues.
I have owned a few Stronglight BB units myself but not one that I ever swapped out the OEM cups for another make.

Last edited by unworthy1; 12-10-21 at 01:23 PM.
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Old 12-10-21, 03:14 PM
  #27  
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That's not the spindle is it? Just the plastic protection sleeve.

https://velobase.com/ViewComponent.a...b4165&Enum=103

If the frame has been sent off for respray all of the components/parts should be available for inspection.

Last edited by seypat; 12-11-21 at 10:21 AM.
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Old 12-10-21, 09:14 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
That's not the spindle is it? Just the plastic protection sleeve.

If the frame has been sent off for respray all of the components/parts should be available for inspection.
could be, in which case maybe nothing else IS Stronglight or French in that BB shell.
I assumed since that's the only visual info provided we were looking at more than a plastic sleeve.
We have not seen images of the "Campag cups" which typically would tell us much more than that they are both "RH threaded", like FR or Ital or if there's been a mistake and they are actually Swiss or BSC.
The fork is still a controversy IMO: if there's no rifling then what is so certain is the OEM fork on a Columbus frame? Is this made with a Falck steerer? since it has the only Shimano parts (the HS) on an otherwise "all Campag" bicycle (setting aside those Simplex shift levers) I'd want to see if the crown race is 26.4 or (shudder) 27.0...depending on the specs might make me doubt if that fork was OEM or even Italian.

Last edited by unworthy1; 12-10-21 at 09:20 PM.
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Old 12-11-21, 10:17 AM
  #29  
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What about the threads on the fork? Key slot, filed flat spot, who knows? Seat tube diameter? Lot of info available that's not posted yet. Still odd that the bike would have a Stronglight sleeve with the way the rest of the bike is set up.

I just noticed that the bar tape in the picture is finished with holding tape in world champion stripes colors. I guess that means something.

Last edited by seypat; 12-11-21 at 10:54 AM.
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Old 12-13-21, 11:29 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Doug Fattic View Post
Yes you are correct that from just from the way the BB cup turns, it is possible that it could have been made in France. It is just unlikely. It has Italian Columbus tubing and Campy equipment. It looks Italian. A French maker would most likely use French tubing and components. When I was at Ellis Briggs in Yorkshire (it was a fairly big store with 10 employees) we never saw any French bikes. Did Ron Kitching (the distributor in Harrogate) bring in some French bikes? The OP is in the UK where an Italian frame is much more likely that a French one. As you noted, it wouldn't be hard for the OP to look at the side of the cup and see if it says 35 X 1 or 36 X 24. He can measure the width of the shell too to see if it is 70 mm. However shells of that type on his frame that are not investment cast are usually narrower than 68 if it is British or 70 if it is Italian.

Look at the liner you can see through the giant cut out in the BB. Does it say France? That would support your option. And the lettering above looks like it says English? I can't quite make out what it reads. What do you and others think it reads.
The liner does say Stronglight and the cup is 36x24 and the Campag crankshaft is 70SS.

How does this impact on origin?
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Old 12-13-21, 11:43 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by johnggold View Post
The liner does say Stronglight and the cup is 36x24 and the Campag crankshaft is 70SS.

How does this impact on origin?
confirms that this is definitely Italian threading, and probably a full Campagnolo BB with only an aftermarket Stronglight plastic "dust sleeve" (even if the shell is not 70mm wide as it "should be".

So with that it's about 99.99% certain the FRAME is Italian-made, still nothing distinctive enough (yet) to give it a name: the frame bits are not distinctive enough, that BB shell cut-out may be the only significant clue, but gonna need somebody like MauriceMoss to get a breakthrough, here.

I think the decision is still out for that FORK: if this steerer has no "Columbus rifling", not confirmed what brand forkends (unless I missed that detail), and the "often NOT Italian" style crown, the fork may not be original to this frame.
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Old 12-13-21, 11:53 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by unworthy1 View Post
confirms that this is definitely Italian threading, and probably a full Campagnolo BB with only an aftermarket Stronglight plastic "dust sleeve" (even if the shell is not 70mm wide as it "should be".

So with that it's about 99.99% certain the FRAME is Italian-made, still nothing distinctive enough (yet) to give it a name: the frame bits are not distinctive enough, that BB shell cut-out may be the only significant clue, but gonna need somebody like MauriceMoss to get a breakthrough, here.

I think the decision is still out for that FORK: if this steerer has no "Columbus rifling", not confirmed what brand forkends (unless I missed that detail), and the "often NOT Italian" style crown, the fork may not be original to this frame.
Yes. I have a Holdsworth frame that came with chrome Raleigh forks. Finding a damaged frame with undamaged forks is going to take a while.

The frame and forks are being resprayed to original colour so I can't revisit just yet.

Italian frames are not my area of expertise so I haven't seen Columbus rifling. Anyone got an image?
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Old 12-13-21, 12:45 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by johnggold View Post
Yes. I have a Holdsworth frame that came with chrome Raleigh forks. Finding a damaged frame with undamaged forks is going to take a while.

The frame and forks are being resprayed to original colour so I can't revisit just yet.

Italian frames are not my area of expertise so I haven't seen Columbus rifling. Anyone got an image?
If you look at the underside of the fork (with the crown closest to you and the threads of the steerer away from you on the other end, and look down the length of the steerer, you will see spiral reinforcements if it is Columbus tubing. Reynolds is butted tubing (it is thicker at the bottom and thins towards the threads) but does not have these extra ribs.
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Old 12-13-21, 01:19 PM
  #34  
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Columbus SL fork with rifling ridges.

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Old 12-13-21, 01:32 PM
  #35  
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Tange Prestige tubing also has ridges/rifling..

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Old 12-13-21, 01:39 PM
  #36  
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I found some Medicis that have very similar fork crowns. Almost identical, but not quite. Also found some Zeus and Tange crowns that were very similar.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/29424537456...4AAOSwZ41g1u8F

https://bikerecyclery.com/nos-vintag...0c-1-threaded/

Last edited by seypat; 12-13-21 at 01:44 PM.
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Old 12-15-21, 02:05 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
Columbus SL fork with rifling ridges.

This is very close but my crown is more bulbous at the top. I posted a pic at the start. But must be same manufacturer given the similarities.
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Old 12-15-21, 06:55 AM
  #38  
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The underside of the fork crown where the steering tube ends. Does it have the helical ridges like in the 2 pics I posted. Or, is it just a round tube like this one?

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Old 12-15-21, 10:57 AM
  #39  
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Not sure what's "more bulbous" with the OP's forkcrown, but leaving aside the question about whether the STEERER has any type of internal ridges (Columbus, Tange or even Ishiwata) in the base, those examples that seypat has referenced earlier don't match because:

the Zeus 2000 is internal socketed,
and that particular Tange has integral "tangs" that are part of the crown itself, I believe.

The OP's, bulbous or not, is the more typical external-socketed type and clearly has added-on tangs.

It would also help to know what brand, if any, there is stamped on the forkends, maybe even see a pic of the end-treatment-to-forkend joint on the blade ends, that's often a good clue.

Curious to see some Medicis with this style of crown since they would typically have used something "Italian" more than not, since they sprang from the remains of the California Masi enterprise. But besides Haden, Tange and Zeus there were several other makes that had similar "relief' areas on the front/back flats, just can't recall ever seeing one from an Italian maker (but good chance there was a French one in the bunch, possibly Bocama).

Last edited by unworthy1; 12-15-21 at 11:03 AM.
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Old 12-15-21, 11:08 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by unworthy1 View Post
Not sure what's "more bulbous" with the OP's forkcrown, but leaving aside the question about whether the STEERER has any type of internal ridges (Columbus, Tange or even Ishiwata) in the base, those examples that seypat has referenced earlier don't match because:

the Zeus 2000 is internal socketed,
and that particular Tange has integral "tangs" that are part of the crown itself, I believe.

The OP's, bulbous or not, is the more typical external-socketed type and clearly has added-on tangs.

It would also help to know what brand, if any, there is stamped on the forkends, maybe even see a pic of the end-treatment-to-forkend joint on the blade ends, that's often a good clue.

Curious to see some Medicis with this style of crown since they would typically have used something "Italian" more than not, since they sprang from the remains of the California Masi enterprise. But besides Haden, Tange and Zeus there were several other makes that had similar "relief' areas on the front/back flats, just can't recall ever seeing one from an Italian maker (but good chance there was a French one in the bunch, possibly Bocama).
I think one of them was in a bike forum thread you were commenting in. Let me see if I can find it. I think one of the bikes in the thread was dark red with yellow decals.

Last edited by seypat; 12-15-21 at 11:12 AM.
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Old 12-15-21, 11:18 AM
  #41  
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Not this thread, but maybe the bike in post 5. Dark blue splatter one in post 20 of the 2nd thread has one.

Show Us Your Medici

Medici
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Old 12-15-21, 11:27 AM
  #42  
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This one, but no tangs. Maybe another in 2nd thread. Ebay listing 3rd one.

1970's MEDICI PRO-STRADA (57 c-c)

N+1: 1979 Medici Pro-Strada

https://www.ebay.com/itm/32470628047...YAAOSwpt1g5gYz

Last edited by seypat; 12-15-21 at 11:40 AM.
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Old 12-15-21, 11:41 AM
  #43  
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I found similar tangs on a bike in one photo, but I 'll have to find it. Most have the rounded cutouts. What I haven't seen in the looking is any similar TT or BB cable guides.

The tangs on this Picchio look similar. The bike in 2nd thread might also have similar tangs.

https://bikerecyclery.com/vintage-it...outs-box-fork/

more bike bling - 1981 Picchio Special

Last edited by seypat; 12-15-21 at 12:16 PM.
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Old 12-15-21, 02:50 PM
  #44  
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The fork crowns on the early Medicis were by Hayden and featured the triangular highlights on both sides:





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Old 12-15-21, 05:05 PM
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Interesting! So Medici used Haden forkcrowns (British) and what sure look like Bocama headlugs (French) in a couple of those examples, including the pix drillium dude posted.
Much more "international" than I expected from the "Los Angeles Masi" veterans!

EDIT: I didn't read the text or might have seen that the lugs (which sure have some BCM style references) were mentioned to be in fact custom IC castings (is that correct?)

Last edited by unworthy1; 12-15-21 at 06:45 PM.
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Old 12-15-21, 05:57 PM
  #46  
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BTW, I went through the "Show Us Your I-talians" thread. Didn't notice any bikes in there that looked particularly similar.
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Old 12-16-21, 12:05 AM
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Fork??
https://www.flickr.com/photos/194581...57720276718530
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Old 12-16-21, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by thook View Post
Very close. Different tangs.
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Old 12-16-21, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
Very close. Different tangs.
Yeah, I noticed after making the post
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Old 12-16-21, 10:22 AM
  #50  
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Possible fork crown match here. Just missing the tangs. Does have a 59 stamped on the steering tube.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/29451015428...iABEgKK1_D_BwE

Last edited by seypat; 12-16-21 at 10:33 AM.
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