jamesdak 

This one was "just" The Car of The Decade among other awards it won.

robertj298 

I forgot about those. I bet I see a dozen of those cruising around town every day.

thook

you're kidding, right?

thook

bikemig 

Meckx is likely the most famous. Flandria is another brand but most of the bikes I've seen in the states are lower end Flandrias. Libertas is also Belgium. I have a full Reynolds 531 Libertas frame with campy drop outs and nice chrome, I need to rebuild one of these days.

:

Calsun

No automaker has surpassed the sedans from Citroen in design and build quality. The ones from the 1970's could travel at 70 mph using only 15 horsepower from the engine. The French have long built superior tanks and jet fighters. At this time the manufacturing capabilities of every industrial nation surpasses that of the United States. That is the end product of "globalization" with American CEO's sending jobs, expertise, technology, and capital out of the country to take advantage of lower paid workers.

In China and Taiwan products are described by their quality level and tier 1 products are called "German quality" and tier 2 are called "Japanese quality" and the bottom tiier is what we find at Wal-Mart, Home Depot, Harbor Freight, and other U.S. retailers.

thook

and batavus....

bikemig 

Batavus is Dutch.

thook

oh! thought it was belgian. close enough??

robertj298 

15 HP? Is that why they get such lousy gas mileage? lol

thook

if you're interpreting what he said they way i suspect, he doesn't mean they only have 15hp. it means, in elementary terms, it's capable of 70mph utilizing only a fraction of the potential hp

my '89 505 got between 21 and 23mpg. this is with a hemispherical V6 2.8L capable of 165hp. that's pretty dern good. comparable to anything any other auto maker is/was doing. certainly out performs the 3L V6 toyota made for better of a decade. still..it was also a good solid engine

Andy_K 

I think we're converging on a corrected description of the "problem" here. Perhaps, "French cars sold in the U.S. market have not historically enjoyed a good reputation in the U.S."? I think this is a generally accurate description of public perception here. I can't say whether the reputation is deserved or not.

I'm reminded of a question frequently posed by verktyg: "Is it wrong or just French?"


(French, definitely not wrong)

thook

all one would need to do resolve those complaints is go to a peugeot forum/list. i was on one for a few years and the gist was as i've stated above. add the CAFE standards required to import french cars and you'll get more explanation. part of the reason, too, was simply getting parts and having someone knowledgable enough on the differences in french engineering compared to what certified mechanics were trained for. having a french car was expensive and complicated. but, that didn't mean french cars were all that bad

bikingshearer 

Not to a Dutchman. And not to a Belgian, for that matter.

thook

i'm sure you're right. i was just joking pertaining only to bikes, though.

robertj298 

My Honda CRV is 166 HP and gets between 24-28 mpg and thats with awd

thook

okay, but that's not a terribly big difference in mpg's. i mean, certainly it's better, but i wouldn't say that makes french cars "lousy" on gas mileage. my toyota 4rnr avg's 14mpg. that's lousy...lol! my friend's yukon gets close to 20mpg and is a bigger vehicle
oh, and i have a '98 crv with a 2.2L. avg's around 23mpg's and is quite a lightweight for what it is. 4cyl's are supposed to get economical mileage, too. so, if the 505 is just as good as the honda, what does that say?

gugie 

@robertj298,

Your post tells me that you think French bikes are junk. That's like saying every poster here from NW Ohio is a troll.

thook

maybe he had a bad stinky cheese experience. those french and their cheese.....

sincos

15 HP?!? Citroen could do it with 11 ... and outrun a Ferrari to boot. All while carrying stuff with elan and style, and without the stupid plastic luggage rack on a Porsche.

Andy_K 

That's more or less consistent with what I was saying. Public opinion is fickle and doesn't always have a direct relationship with reality. I love French bikes. You probably wouldn't have to search long to find a bike mechanic who hates them. One of the thing I find most interesting about French bikes are the common reports of how entry-level boom-era French bikes are pleasant to ride. What I like most about French bikes is the rich tradition of French bike culture. These two things are probably related.

thook

lol....if the citroen is going over 70mph and the ferrari is only going 63.....i mean

sincos

But back to bikes ... when you think of killer examples of victories in the classics what do you think of .... top of the list for me is the 1980 Neige-Bastogne-Neige, won by a Gitane by nearly 10 minutes in a snowstorm in a race that would have been canceled today under the Extreme Weather Protocol. 2nd place was a Peugeot, another Frenchie.



Or the 1981 Paris-Roubais, wet, slimy, won off the front by ... a Gitane! Defeating a Dutch Gazelle and one of those overrated Italian things (a Benotto)


Or the 1992 Milan-San Remo, won by a Vitus (too whippy, the experts tell us, to sprint on or carve corners) hunting down another one of them Italian things (a Colnago, IIRC)


Of course some people might say it's the rider that matters -- but we all buy bikes based on their success in the big races, eh?

Andy_K 

thook

lol...well, the french did put the "french" into their bikes, i'd say. i like those old peugeot uo's and such. they did ride great. and, hella durable, ime. i have a ruby red late 70's UO something frameset with the aztec lugs. it's just the little matter of missing a chainstay. the PO cut it out with a hacksaw for some reason. one day with enough money to trivially blow, i'd like to have a new one attached. i love the rake of the fork and the general relaxed feel of it. and ruby red....mmmm