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Late 60s Schwinn Super Sport questions

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Late 60s Schwinn Super Sport questions

Old 12-21-21, 12:36 PM
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WilliamK1974
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Late 60s Schwinn Super Sport questions

Hello everyone,

I've found a Schwinn Super Sport for sale that's about a two-hour drive from me. I haven't seen one closer to home in at least five years. This one looks like it's in decent condition with a need for some maintenance and TLC. By its features and appearance, I would place it between 1967 and 1969. It's blue with blue bar tape, some of which is missing. 24" frame, 27" tires, the Schwinn Chicago head badge with the S in the middle, pedals with the shoe cages, Twin-Stik shifters, center pull brakes, what looks like an aftermarket rear rack, and a Brooks B15 saddle that has seen some years. Asking $90.

It looks like the RD has been swapped for a SunTour that I swear is branded SunTour Honda. That doesn't seem right, but that's what it looks like in the pics. If I wanted to make it look more original, would this have used a Heuret Alvit or something else? A couple of the catalogs say the Super Sport came with a Schwinn Sprint RD. The part number in the 1967 catalog is 3857.

Assuming I get this, is there any reason *not* to use, ride, and enjoy it? It's not a museum piece and the brazed frames are supposed to be durable, like with proper care, it could outlast me.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thank you,
-William
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Old 12-21-21, 12:45 PM
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Probably a Suntour Honor. An upgrade from the original
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Old 12-21-21, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by alcjphil View Post
Probably a Suntour Honor. An upgrade from the original
The website I found seems to put it in the 1976 SunTour Honor era. Sort of their mid-range steel workhorse at that time.

So, if I can get it to work properly, just stick with it since it's better than whatever would have come with the bike when it was new?
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Old 12-21-21, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by WilliamK1974 View Post
The website I found seems to put it in the 1976 SunTour Honor era. Sort of their mid-range steel workhorse at that time.

So, if I can get it to work properly, just stick with it since it's better than whatever would have come with the bike when it was new?
Absolutely. I would trade up to a SunTour VGT if possible, but the Honor certainly beats the Schwinn-labeled Huret Allvit junk that came with it.
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Old 12-21-21, 03:09 PM
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If by blue you mean powder blue with matching bar tape, I think I read that color came out in 1972. Earlier ones I think would have chrome socks on the front fork ends and not that blue. I have 3 SuperSports from 1973. They are fairly easily rebuildable, solid, and pretty much bombproof yet still offer a respectable ride. Searching will show lots of interest here for the SuperSport.

Do look on the wheel hubs for an easy clue as to the year of manufacture.

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Old 12-21-21, 03:18 PM
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This Sky Blue 68 SS followed me home 2 weeks ago. It will be a rider.

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Old 12-21-21, 04:19 PM
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These are nice riding bikes. They can be very smooth with fresh maintenance and decent tires. A wire bead Pasela is ideal for the stock hookless rims.

A Suntour Honor is pretty much functionally equivalent to other Suntour derailleurs, it's just heavier. I've had good results when using them.
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Old 12-21-21, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by John E View Post
Absolutely. I would trade up to a SunTour VGT if possible, but the Honor certainly beats the Schwinn-labeled Huret Allvit junk that came with it.
I've gotten well past the time when I would sometimes refer to a vintage bike's original parts as junk.

I used to tend to toss items like Weinmann brakes and Huret derailers, but once I learned of their respected place in the market I thought better of doing this.

Knowing a component's limitations should precede any decision to replace it.

The Huret Allvit or Schwinn Sprint handles five speed freewheels well, but will not handle even six speed freewheels if using flexible, modern chain, and seems best designed for use with a 28t largest cog.

The Allvit body was not designed as a crash protector, but is an extreme example (extra long) of a dropped parallelogram knuckle, supporting an inverted parallelogram pivoting from the bottom in top-swing fashion instead of from the top (so as to have the guide pulley better track the slanted/convex profile of the freewheel).

Other limitations imposed by the Allvit's design include it's length and thus leverage acting on any dropout hanger to which it is attached, it's stiff return spring, and it's somewhat regressive actuation/travel ratio as it approaches the largest cog.

But it can work great, given well-fitted, modern cabling, and well-lubricated shift lever pivot, even using the Twin-Stik levers.
It can also be modified for six-speed use, with a bit of grinding for increased travel, and with the hub spacing made to position a six-speed freewheel optimally


.

Last edited by dddd; 12-21-21 at 05:50 PM.
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Old 12-21-21, 06:47 PM
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Cut my teeth touring on a 1975 Super Sport with the Huret Alvit derailleurs. The FW was 5 speed, but it was a 30 tooth, not a 28. Worked very well and without complaint. Rode all over the Midwest with the thing using a Pletcher rack and Cdale barrel shaped panniers. Smooth, steady and never any speed wobbles. Great bikes!
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Old 12-21-21, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by dmark View Post
This Sky Blue 68 SS followed me home 2 weeks ago. It will be a rider.

This is what it looks like. I forgot to mention the chrome fork.
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Old 12-21-21, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by dddd View Post
I've gotten well past the time when I would sometimes refer to a vintage bike's original parts as junk.

I used to tend to toss items like Weinmann brakes and Huret derailers, but once I learned of their respected place in the market I thought better of doing this.

Knowing a component's limitations should precede any decision to replace it.

The Huret Allvit or Schwinn Sprint handles five speed freewheels well, but will not handle even six speed freewheels if using flexible, modern chain, and seems best designed for use with a 28t largest cog.

The Allvit body was not designed as a crash protector, but is an extreme example (extra long) of a dropped parallelogram knuckle, supporting an inverted parallelogram pivoting from the bottom in top-swing fashion instead of from the top (so as to have the guide pulley better track the slanted/convex profile of the freewheel).

Other limitations imposed by the Allvit's design include it's length and thus leverage acting on any dropout hanger to which it is attached, it's stiff return spring, and it's somewhat regressive actuation/travel ratio as it approaches the largest cog.

But it can work great, given well-fitted, modern cabling, and well-lubricated shift lever pivot, even using the Twin-Stik levers.
It can also be modified for six-speed use, with a bit of grinding for increased travel, and with the hub spacing made to position a six-speed freewheel optimally


.
I bought a 1973 Continental a few years ago. It was kind of like a barn find survivor with all of its original components, most of which were in pretty good shape. I did some maintenance one it, and was proud of myself for getting the Allvit RD to work correctly. The chrome had been scratched off it at some point, but it was still functional. The bike rode well enough, but had a heavy feel that I wasn't enamored with, so I sold it and made a nice profit.

I like for things to be as original as I can keep them. The problem is that Heuret Allvit RDs are kind of thin on the ground right now, and priced accordingly.
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Old 12-21-21, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by dddd View Post
The Huret Allvit or Schwinn Sprint <snip> seems best designed for use with a 28t largest cog.
The long-cage Allvit that came on my '73 SS handles a 34t FW just fine, no straining. I think a 32t came on it originally. (Yep, just looked up the catalog: 32t was stock). I have often wondered what the trick is, what else they changed compared to the stock Allvit to make it shift to such a large FW. The jockey pulley is concentric with the cage pivot, so the length of the cage shouldn't affect the big FW cog it can shift to, right? So I wonder, would this mech shift to a 34t if I put a short cage on it? Not that I would want that, just wondering.

The long cage has enough chain-wrap for a triple in front too, but the front derailer doesn't, width-wise ó not enough travel. I actually took both adjustment screws completely out, because from all the way out as far as it can go, to all the way in, is just right for the double I have on there. If I really wanted a triple, I'd find a way to make it work, but my current gear range is just right.

I replaced the Ashtabula crank with a TA Cyclotouriste (using a 3-piece BB adaptor), and my two chainrings are a lot smaller than the stock 39-52, something like 32-46 (I forget).



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Old 12-22-21, 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by bulgie View Post
The long-cage Allvit that came on my '73 SS handles a 34t FW just fine, no straining. I think a 32t came on it originally. (Yep, just looked up the catalog: 32t was stock). I have often wondered what the trick is, what else they changed compared to the stock Allvit to make it shift to such a large FW. The jockey pulley is concentric with the cage pivot, so the length of the cage shouldn't affect the big FW cog it can shift to, right? So I wonder, would this mech shift to a 34t if I put a short cage on it? Not that I would want that, just wondering...
Mark B
Yes, I forgot that the Supersports had the bigger freewheel and longer-cage derailer, and I have two of these bikes (both with short-cage Allvits, and with 13-26t and 13-28t 6s freewheels).

The special claw bracket is what allows the bigger 32t cog, by swinging the derailer body rearward.
I modified one of these to work better with smaller 28t freewheels,(just by grinding metal away from the stop, letting the derailer body swing forward).

The stock Supersport shifts well with stiff vintage chain, but it's long-cage derailer on the special claw bracket will shift like poop using flexible modern chain, because the re-angled derailer body does not position the guide pulley close enough to the smaller cogs on the 14-32t freewheel.
So the original Allvit with the standard claw bracket hanger is the better-shifting derailer (when used with a freewheel having about 28t on the large cog).
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Old 12-22-21, 06:52 AM
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I know that dddd likes that stock rear derailleur. He obviously has more skill and patience than I do and perhaps his units were a bit less used than the ones I’ve come across. My exposure is mostly with well used co-op bikes. On my 73 bike purchased in 75, I replaced it pretty early on, but that could also have been from wanting some of the newest gadgets. Nearly all of these I have come across are also bent in some fashion.

I did once recently make an effort to get one operable and learned once again why it was nice to have that long Schwinn stick shift lever. I gave up then.
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Old 12-22-21, 07:08 AM
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I left my '65 (courtesy of pastorbobnlnh ) as close to box stock as I could make it.



The '73 was a canvas:




Both great riders. It's a bike worth putting a little time and effort into.

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Old 12-22-21, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by bulgie View Post
The long cage has enough chain-wrap for a triple in front too, but the front derailer doesn't, width-wise ó not enough travel.
Mark B
That's odd.
The Sprint front derailleur on the '64 Sierra handled the 40/47/52 triple on that bike, and the Huret 600 that preceded it handled the same triple on the earlier 15 speed models.
Something must have changed with the newer Schwinn Approved front der.
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Old 12-22-21, 07:38 AM
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A Campagnoloed '71 Schwinn Super Sport and '82 Lotus Super Pro hang out together.

Oh, what the heck! If top506 can post pictures of his Super Sports , I'm going to post a picture of "Sporty" and his new rack-mate, a Lotus Super Pro Aero (1982).
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Old 12-22-21, 08:15 AM
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I always felt the Super Sport and the Sports Tourer should have had the model names swapped.
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Old 12-22-21, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post
I always felt the Super Sport and the Sports Tourer should have had the model names swapped.
Agreed, the Supersports frame isnít quite as nice as the Sports Tourers. Supersport should have been the better frame.
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Old 12-22-21, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by tkamd73 View Post
Agreed, the Supersports frame isnít quite as nice as the Sports Tourers. Supersport should have been the better frame.
Tim
Agreed on the names, but I was under the impression that the frames were basically the same for the same year except perhaps the dropouts. I could be wrong and likely I am. Also for me, the boom era SS is what I have seen and what I have. I find it interesting that the earlier ones were quite different with regards to the downtube shifters, the rear derailleur hanger, the front chain rings lacking the guard etc, etc. Those early ones as the OP has are obviously much more of a SuperSport. Perhaps boom era cost cutting and parts interchangeability and ease of final assembly took hold after the boom. Nice score on a pre boom SS.
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Old 12-22-21, 12:57 PM
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Yup, it just the dropouts, not a big deal, but not quite as nice.
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Old 12-22-21, 01:11 PM
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Bottom bracket is different too. Super Sport had an Ashtabula, Sports Tourer a square-taper.
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Old 12-22-21, 01:11 PM
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Some Super Sports had forged dropouts, later ones were stamped. They got the Ashtabula cranks with the matching bottom bracket shell.

The Sports Tourer and Superior fillet brazed models had three-piece cranks and appropriate shell.
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Old 12-22-21, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by BFisher View Post
Some Super Sports had forged dropouts, later ones were stamped. They got the Ashtabula cranks with the matching bottom bracket shell.

The Sports Tourer and Superior fillet brazed models had three-piece cranks and appropriate shell.
I found that I had to choose either having forged dropouts OR a painted fork, and strongly preferred a painted fork so went with that.

The claw hanger wasn't a problem for me as I was still able to get the more outwardly-positioned Allvit to shift across six cogs, and with the freewheel of course still clearing the claw-mount nut inward of the dropout.
"Claw" bolts tend to be made of very high-grade steel, so can be tightened heavily enough to prevent any wandering of the claw's position during wheel changes.

One challenge when trying for great shifting performance on these and similar bikes is finding best-fitting ferrules for modern, 4mm OD shift cable housing.
Using any compressionless housings sans ferrules can cause "fraying" with strands then left obstructing the cable's movement!
I did locate some 5mm OD, stepless metal ferrules which snugly capped the 4mm compressionless housings, but which I cannot locate a source for going forward. So if anyone knows where such ferrules might turn up today I am all ears.
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Old 12-22-21, 03:16 PM
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Yeah, I agree. Cable setup can be trickier with these. What I did recently on a Sports Tourer that I set up as a 3x7 indexed was to utilize some old 5mm SIS housing that I luckily had on hand and is still in good shape. The upper downtube stops are gone from this frame, so I used a Tektro clamp-on stop. At the section above the BB, I used two old steel 5mm stepdown ferrules with a #2 brass washer inside to give the strands a flat surface. A nylon washer would have been better. At the chainstay stop I took the diameter of a Shimano SP40 stepdown ferrule down just enough that it will slide into the braze-on, and finished with a length of 4mm housing. The setup works perfectly.


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