Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Weird binder bolt looks like it uses a star shaped tool.

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Weird binder bolt looks like it uses a star shaped tool.

Old 12-30-21, 08:01 PM
  #1  
grant40
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
grant40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Posts: 417
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 144 Post(s)
Liked 180 Times in 122 Posts
Weird binder bolt looks like it uses a star shaped tool.

How would I get this off?
grant40 is offline  
Old 12-30-21, 08:04 PM
  #2  
BFisher 
Senior Member
 
BFisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,142
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 682 Post(s)
Liked 1,529 Times in 750 Posts
That kind-of looks like the inside of a twelve-point socket. I'd carefully try a standard hex key/Allen wrench.
BFisher is offline  
Likes For BFisher:
Old 12-30-21, 08:07 PM
  #3  
juvela
Senior Member
 
juvela's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 11,705
Mentioned: 328 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2820 Post(s)
Liked 1,353 Times in 992 Posts
-----

may be simply an allen bolt which has been buggered by someone without the right size key

you could either grab and turn the head or go at it with a screw extractor - may need to grind the tip of the tool down a bit


-----
juvela is offline  
Likes For juvela:
Old 12-30-21, 08:07 PM
  #4  
thumpism 
Bikes are okay, I guess.
 
thumpism's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 8,134

Bikes: Waterford Paramount Touring, Giant CFM-2, Raleigh Sports 3-speeds in M23 & L23, Schwinn Cimarron oddball build, Marin Palisades Trail dropbar conversion, Nishiki Cresta GT

Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2344 Post(s)
Liked 1,432 Times in 1,019 Posts
Originally Posted by BFisher View Post
That kind-of looks like the inside of a twelve-point socket. I'd carefully try a standard hex key/Allen wrench.
Also called triple square.
thumpism is offline  
Old 12-30-21, 08:12 PM
  #5  
clubman 
Youngman Grand
 
clubman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 8,071

Bikes: roadsters, club bikes, fixed and classic

Mentioned: 117 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2032 Post(s)
Liked 1,324 Times in 859 Posts
Seems the addition of the rack demanded a longer bolt and that's what was handy. Likely takes standard keyed bolt?
clubman is offline  
Old 12-30-21, 08:18 PM
  #6  
grant40
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
grant40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Posts: 417
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 144 Post(s)
Liked 180 Times in 122 Posts
Originally Posted by clubman View Post
Seems the addition of the rack demanded a longer bolt and that's what was handy. Likely takes standard keyed bolt?
There is no rack. The thing that's attached to the binder bolt is the cable stop.
grant40 is offline  
Old 12-30-21, 08:20 PM
  #7  
grant40
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
grant40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Posts: 417
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 144 Post(s)
Liked 180 Times in 122 Posts
Originally Posted by BFisher View Post
That kind-of looks like the inside of a twelve-point socket. I'd carefully try a standard hex key/Allen wrench.
I already did try that but it was a weird size. Next time I will try a U.S. standard hex wrench instead of a metric, as no metric one would fit correctly.
grant40 is offline  
Old 12-30-21, 08:38 PM
  #8  
thumpism 
Bikes are okay, I guess.
 
thumpism's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 8,134

Bikes: Waterford Paramount Touring, Giant CFM-2, Raleigh Sports 3-speeds in M23 & L23, Schwinn Cimarron oddball build, Marin Palisades Trail dropbar conversion, Nishiki Cresta GT

Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2344 Post(s)
Liked 1,432 Times in 1,019 Posts
You could always try Vise Grips. Or an axe.
thumpism is offline  
Likes For thumpism:
Old 12-30-21, 08:54 PM
  #9  
clubman 
Youngman Grand
 
clubman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 8,071

Bikes: roadsters, club bikes, fixed and classic

Mentioned: 117 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2032 Post(s)
Liked 1,324 Times in 859 Posts
Still, hangers came keyed on many bikes. I'd put a vice grip on it and replace accordingly.

clubman is offline  
Old 12-30-21, 09:35 PM
  #10  
machinist42
mycocyclist
 
machinist42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Monkey Junction, Wilmington, NC
Posts: 1,917

Bikes: 1964 Schwinn Paramount P-13 DeLuxe, 1964 Schwinn Sport Super Sport, 1972 Falcon San Remo, 1974 Maserati MT-1, 1974 Raleigh International, 1984 Lotus Odyssey, 198? Rossin Ghibli, 1990 LeMond Le Vanquer (sic), 1991 Specialized Allez Transition Pro, +

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 773 Post(s)
Liked 451 Times in 274 Posts
Insufficient Information

Originally Posted by grant40 View Post
How would I get this off?
What is on the other side of the ears, a nut?

How is the bolt unremovable? Is it spinning, or frozen and fixed?

May we see a picture of the entire bicycle please?
machinist42 is offline  
Likes For machinist42:
Old 12-30-21, 09:43 PM
  #11  
DesmoDog
Senior Member
 
DesmoDog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: SE Michigan, USA
Posts: 52
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked 48 Times in 26 Posts
You got the correct answer in post 4. It does not take a standard allen wrench. It's a good excuse to spend $20 on more tools.
DesmoDog is offline  
Likes For DesmoDog:
Old 12-30-21, 10:32 PM
  #12  
grant40
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
grant40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Posts: 417
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 144 Post(s)
Liked 180 Times in 122 Posts
Originally Posted by machinist42 View Post
What is on the other side of the ears, a nut?

How is the bolt unremovable? Is it spinning, or frozen and fixed?

May we see a picture of the entire bicycle please?
The other side has the same exact head.

Here is a picture of the bike.
grant40 is offline  
Old 12-31-21, 01:14 AM
  #13  
merziac
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 9,834

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 195 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3053 Post(s)
Liked 2,627 Times in 1,714 Posts
Originally Posted by grant40 View Post
The other side has the same exact head.

Here is a picture of the bike.
Regular Torx can sometimes grip these, the ones with short splines where the taper engages the head. The triple square is best.
merziac is offline  
Old 12-31-21, 02:32 AM
  #14  
martl
Strong Walker
 
martl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 1,152

Bikes: too many

Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 251 Post(s)
Liked 314 Times in 170 Posts
That bolt looks like it had a long and happy intense relationship with the frame. I have never heard of or seen somethig else than a standard allenhead or hex bolt being used at that point, certainly not on a bike that old. Anyway, from the looks of it its a goner anyway, just drill it out...
martl is offline  
Likes For martl:
Old 12-31-21, 03:06 AM
  #15  
merziac
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 9,834

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 195 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3053 Post(s)
Liked 2,627 Times in 1,714 Posts
Originally Posted by martl View Post
That bolt looks like it had a long and happy intense relationship with the frame. I have never heard of or seen somethig else than a standard allenhead or hex bolt being used at that point, certainly not on a bike that old. Anyway, from the looks of it its a goner anyway, just drill it out...
This type of hardware was originally black oxide finish and very likely grade 8 or the like.

Merz used some of it and they are not hard to deal with, no need for excessive force that could damage the frame.
merziac is offline  
Old 12-31-21, 05:28 AM
  #16  
oneclick 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,818
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 680 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 699 Times in 426 Posts
Originally Posted by thumpism View Post
Vise Grips.
Needlenose ones, especially if you have made sure the moving jaw is snug in the slot, a little squeeze in a bench vice if they are loose. One of those tools that sometimes are the only thing that'll do.
oneclick is offline  
Likes For oneclick:
Old 12-31-21, 07:02 AM
  #17  
pastorbobnlnh 
Freewheel Medic
 
pastorbobnlnh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: NH Mountains NW of Concord & Mid-GA Coast!
Posts: 11,977

Bikes: Snazzy* Schwinns, Classy Cannondales, & a Lonely '83 Santana Tandem (* Ed.)

Mentioned: 107 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 870 Post(s)
Liked 622 Times in 352 Posts
Add a few drops of penetrating oil to the threads the night before attempting the removal. Can't hurt.
__________________
Bob
Dreaming about riding in NH's summertime while enjoying the GA coast for the remainder of the year!

Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com




pastorbobnlnh is offline  
Likes For pastorbobnlnh:
Old 12-31-21, 07:19 AM
  #18  
Bianchigirll 
Bianchi Goddess
 
Bianchigirll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Shady Pines Retirement Fort Wayne, In
Posts: 28,318

Bikes: Too many to list here check my signature.

Mentioned: 154 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2320 Post(s)
Liked 1,341 Times in 803 Posts
Originally Posted by thumpism View Post
Also called triple square.
I don’t think I ever realized these were actually different from Torx bits. However I think my only experience with them was the axle on ‘83ish Golf and I just hunted down the Snapon guy and bought what the Chilton told me to get
__________________
One morning you wake up, the girl is gone, the bikes are gone, all that's left behind is a pair of old tires and a tube of tubular glue, all squeezed out"

Sugar "Kane" Kowalczyk
Bianchigirll is offline  
Likes For Bianchigirll:
Old 12-31-21, 07:47 AM
  #19  
SJX426 
Senior Member
 
SJX426's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fredericksburg, Va
Posts: 8,490

Bikes: '73 Bottecchia Giro d'Italia, '83 Colnago Superissimo, '84 Trek 610, '84 Trek 760, '88 Pinarello Veneto, '88 De Rosa Pro, '89 Pinarello Montello, '94 Burley Duet, 97 Specialized RockHopper, 2010 Langster, Tern Link D8

Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1203 Post(s)
Liked 1,165 Times in 645 Posts
Originally Posted by Bianchigirll View Post
I don’t think I ever realized these were actually different from Torx bits. However I think my only experience with them was the axle on ‘83ish Golf and I just hunted down the Snapon guy and bought what the Chilton told me to get
I think I have one which I needed to replace a boot on an '83 Scirocco.
__________________
Bikes don't stand alone. They are two tired.
SJX426 is offline  
Likes For SJX426:
Old 12-31-21, 09:31 AM
  #20  
juvela
Senior Member
 
juvela's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alta California
Posts: 11,705
Mentioned: 328 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2820 Post(s)
Liked 1,353 Times in 992 Posts
-----

...someone really went to town with that respray - doing up the Rampinelli frame pump to exactly match the scheme of the frame - looks like they had lots of good fun with their Cesare...


-----
juvela is offline  
Likes For juvela:
Old 12-31-21, 11:58 AM
  #21  
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 17,248
Mentioned: 113 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2337 Post(s)
Liked 1,258 Times in 947 Posts
Originally Posted by thumpism View Post
Also called triple square.
looks very much to me like a Shimano Dura-Ace seat binder bolt, uncommon in “black”
The chrome one was OEM on the Teledyne Titan
repechage is offline  
Old 12-31-21, 11:59 AM
  #22  
dddd
Ride, Wrench, Swap, Race
 
dddd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 8,358

Bikes: Cheltenham-Pedersen racer, Boulder F/S Paris-Roubaix, Varsity racer, '52 Christophe, '62 Continental, '92 Merckx, '75 Limongi, '76 Presto, '72 Gitane SC, '71 Schwinn SS, etc.

Mentioned: 118 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1207 Post(s)
Liked 697 Times in 490 Posts
Those particular binder nuts turn up on old bikes from time to time, and use a 1/4" Allen key btw.

Not sure who made them.

Threading should be 1/4-20 iir.
dddd is offline  
Likes For dddd:
Old 12-31-21, 12:20 PM
  #23  
grant40
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
grant40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Posts: 417
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 144 Post(s)
Liked 180 Times in 122 Posts
Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
Add a few drops of penetrating oil to the threads the night before attempting the removal. Can't hurt.
I did that 1st.
grant40 is offline  
Likes For grant40:
Old 12-31-21, 03:29 PM
  #24  
John E
feros ferio
 
John E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Posts: 20,927

Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;

Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1136 Post(s)
Liked 674 Times in 474 Posts
Has anyone ever seen an SAE triple square? I though they were a strictly metric, mostly VW thing, which is why I bought a set. I had to teach the sales guy at Autozone about them.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
John E is offline  
Old 12-31-21, 04:13 PM
  #25  
CliffordK
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 26,874
Mentioned: 213 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15645 Post(s)
Liked 3,111 Times in 2,317 Posts
Originally Posted by Bianchigirll View Post
I don’t think I ever realized these were actually different from Torx bits. However I think my only experience with them was the axle on ‘83ish Golf and I just hunted down the Snapon guy and bought what the Chilton told me to get
I was going to say, VW Rabbit Caddy drive shaft.

Harbor Freight has a 100 piece "security bit set" that should have them.

https://www.harborfreight.com/securi...-pc-68457.html
CliffordK is offline  
Likes For CliffordK:

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.