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Are these decent track wheels?

Old 01-04-22, 09:45 AM
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tiger1964 
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Are these decent track wheels?

My earlier WTB topic for a set of used, serviceable 700C track wheels bore no fruit, so I guess I need to buy a set somewhere. Local CL ads show nothing that looks remotely vintage. I see this on eBay " WHEELS ", they are high flange and silver rims that are not "deep" or deeply V'ed. OK, I'd rather have 36H but on track wheels, might be hard to find. Anyone familiar with how they look, particularly the quality of the hubs?

There are no velodromes around here, and the intended bike is not a high-value collectors' item (1974 Zeus frame) and will have a hodgepodge of components anyway. I plan to use it on the local paved rail-trail for "training" rides when the weather is nice, and on the rollers when it isn't. That's said, if the hubs feel like they have gravel in them instead of bearings, that would take a lot of the fun out of riding the bike.
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Old 01-04-22, 10:04 AM
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They look decent and sturdy...
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Old 01-04-22, 10:34 AM
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Yes, those are good wheels.
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Old 01-04-22, 10:43 AM
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I suspect that many of the bikes and components marketed as "track" never actually see a track, but those eBay wheels are probably fine. The rear hub appears to be the same as the Origin8 hub on my fixed-gear that has gone over 14,000 miles now without protest. I would want double-butted spokes, but it matters less with symmetrically-dished wheels like these.
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Old 01-04-22, 11:10 AM
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https://www.njs-export.com/collectio...-hubs-21120402
The EBay rims don't have threading for a lock ring .
This is the type of hub you want . See the double diameter . - Mark .
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Old 01-04-22, 11:16 AM
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Now those are some proper track wheels.
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Old 01-04-22, 11:40 AM
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Have you checked Velomine?

https://www.velomine.com/index.php?m...08sjf34f6t6154

I bought a wheelset with a rear fixed-free hub for my Milwaukee single speed. Very happy customer.
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Old 01-04-22, 11:48 AM
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For a few dollars more:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/175090006085
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Old 01-04-22, 01:09 PM
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Thank for all the feedback! I am inclined to buy these.

Originally Posted by markwesti View Post
The EBay rims don't have threading for a lock ring .This is the type of hub you want . See the double diameter . - Mark .
Yeah, I had earlier message'd the seller about that; turns out these are flip-flop with one side for a freewheel, and the other side for fixed with a lock ring. The eBay photo only shows the freewheel side. By the way, is there more than one threading for lock rings? I hope to use the one I have. Anticipated gearing is 23T front, 6T rear.

Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
Have you checked Velomine? I bought a wheelset with a rear fixed-free hub for my Milwaukee single speed. Very happy customer.
Actually the seller of the set I linked IS Velomine. He got back to me right away.

Originally Posted by jeirvine View Post
Looks nice but black rims, tubulars and seller say 28T and I don't thinks that's the sprocket, he may mean 28 spokes and I'm wary enough of 32 hole as it is.
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Old 01-04-22, 01:44 PM
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@tiger1964 , yes there is only one size lock ring thread on a proper track hub . Also know that with track gears you will be using 1/8 chain . When talking about track gearing you describe it in inches , I never really got the hang of that . Google velodrome gearing chart . Pic of the Zeus ?

https://raceloop.com/track-cycling-gearing/
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Old 01-04-22, 02:37 PM
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There are different size threads for lock rings. Miche, Campy, Gipiemme and Phil Wood hubs use italian threaded lockrings, others should be the same.
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Old 01-04-22, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by markwesti View Post
@tiger1964 , yes there is only one size lock ring thread on a proper track hub . Also know that with track gears you will be using 1/8 chain . When talking about track gearing you describe it in inches , I never really got the hang of that . Google velodrome gearing chart . Pic of the Zeus ?/
Beyond 1/8", I'm planning on one-inch pitch, because that's what I have. And the more I think about it, 23/6 might be a bit tall for use on my planned training rides.

Originally Posted by geeteeiii View Post
There are different size threads for lock rings. Miche, Campy, Gipiemme and Phil Wood hubs use italian threaded lockrings, others should be the same.
That might be a problem, the lock ring I have and the sprocket I have are on a broken Campy hub.
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Old 01-04-22, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by markwesti View Post
https://www.njs-export.com/collectio...-hubs-21120402
The EBay rims don't have threading for a lock ring .
This is the type of hub you want . See the double diameter . - Mark .
Only one side of the rear hub is shown in the pictures. The vendor does describe the hubs as "Formula High flange fixed/free hubs," where the rear hub would have freewheel threading on one side, and fixed sprocket/lockring threading on the other side.
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Old 01-04-22, 05:09 PM
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tiger1964 Sorry I confused things , track gearing in inches and (1/8 cogs) are two different things . At my track 88.0 (inches) worked best for me , a 42T chain ring and a rear cog of 13T is 87.3 inches . 1/8 refers to the thickness of the teeth on the cogs .
If you need to buy a rear cog for your track wheel it will be 1/8 X whatever number of teeth you want . When buying track chain it comes in 1/8 https://www.benscycle.com/izumi-eco-...JCpPD_BwE#tabs
Now , when setting up the cranks be careful to get 144 BCD . Track chain rings are 144 BCD X 1/8 .
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Old 01-05-22, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by markwesti View Post
tiger1964 Sorry I confused things , track gearing in inches and (1/8 cogs) are two different things . At my track 88.0 (inches) worked best for me , a 42T chain ring and a rear cog of 13T is 87.3 inches . 1/8 refers to the thickness of the teeth on the cogs .
If you need to buy a rear cog for your track wheel it will be 1/8 X whatever number of teeth you want . When buying track chain it comes in 1/8 https://www.benscycle.com/izumi-eco-...JCpPD_BwE#tabs
Now , when setting up the cranks be careful to get 144 BCD . Track chain rings are 144 BCD X 1/8 .
I knew what you meant, but thanks for clarifying. I have a 23T chainring and both 6T and 8T sprockets , equivalent to 46T, 12T and 14T, respectively. I am thinking 23/6 is a bit too tall and 23/8 a bit short for my needs, but finding a 7T cog might prove interesting and especially if I do have a thread fitment issue due to there being more than one thread size. Moreover, if I wear out the one little-used chain I have, locating a source of one inch pitch chains could be tough. Alternatively, abandon what I have and locate a conventional crankset and not use my very old Chater-Lea track cranks and run 1/2"x1/8" chain and cogs to fit.
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Old 01-05-22, 12:08 PM
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I don't get 6 or 7-tooth cogs, either as tiny cogs or as every other tooth missing from 12T and 14T. Is that a real thing? What do they look like?
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Old 01-05-22, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Fredo76 View Post
I don't get 6 or 7-tooth cogs, either as tiny cogs or as every other tooth missing from 12T and 14T. Is that a real thing? What do they look like?
Yes, it looks like every other tooth is "missing"; very old technology.

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Old 01-05-22, 03:02 PM
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Well, if I get these wheels, perhaps I might need a new lock ring... but what about the cog itself? Looking online at a replacement ring, I saw in a description:
  • Fits most standard track hubs (1.29" x 24 TPI LH)
  • Doesn't fit Campagnolo style (1.32" x 24TPI LH) or French (33 x 1mm LH) hubs
That describes two different lock ring threads... are there multiple cog threads and, if so, what are they? Hmm, looking at some old C&V BF topics, might be similar to freewheels in that "english" and "Italian" are close. Then again, no idea what my existing cogs are.

Originally Posted by markwesti View Post
@tiger1964 , yes there is only one size lock ring thread on a proper track hub .
Originally Posted by geeteeiii View Post
There are different size threads for lock rings. Miche, Campy, Gipiemme and Phil Wood hubs use italian threaded lockrings, others should be the same.
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Old 01-05-22, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by tiger1964 View Post
Well, if I get these wheels, perhaps I might need a new lock ring... but what about the cog itself?
Formula hubs use ISO sprocket thread: 1.37" x 24tpi

Looking online at a replacement ring, I saw in a description:
  • Fits most standard track hubs (1.29" x 24 TPI LH)
  • Doesn't fit Campagnolo style (1.32" x 24TPI LH) or French (33 x 1mm LH) hubs
That describes two different lock ring threads
Formula hubs use ISO lockring thread as well: 1.29" x 24tpi LH

are there multiple cog threads and, if so, what are they?
Hmm, looking at some old C&V BF topics, might be similar to freewheels in that "english" and "Italian" are close. Then again, no idea what my existing cogs are.
I've only seen ISO thread track sprockets. Perhaps there are metric (aka "French") thread sprockets, but I've never encountered one.
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Old 01-06-22, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
Formula hubs use ISO sprocket thread: 1.37" x 24tpi
Formula hubs use ISO lockring thread as well: 1.29" x 24tpi LH
I've only seen ISO thread track sprockets. Perhaps there are metric (aka "French") thread sprockets, but I've never encountered one.
I hope you are right. Seems I can get an ISO lock ring easily, and use my existing cogs and/or any new ones. That is a major plus, and sounds like I could get these wheels, or a different set, with confidence. Thanks!
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Old 01-06-22, 07:14 AM
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You can buy directly from Velomine for cheape...errr...lower. Same wheels as in the OP...
https://www.velomine.com/index.php?m...roducts_id=531

I had them for a while - I don't know if they are suitable for, or if a Formula rear hub is even usable with, a skip-tooth drive train on a really old tarck bike but they are fine for run-of-the-mill service. But mine didn't hold true real well. In fact - since they are machine built you prolly would need to touch them up even before using them on a more typical bike. But they were good for my purposes. In fact I currently use the similar but wider rim CR18/Formula wheels from Velomine on my fixed beach cruiser and they are fine for the slow meandering rides I do nowadays.

Good luck - ride safe...

Last edited by IAmSam; 01-06-22 at 07:34 AM. Reason: ooops...
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Old 01-06-22, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by IAmSam View Post
You can buy directly from Velomine for cheape...errr...lower. Same wheels as in the OP... https://www.velomine.com/index.php?m...roducts_id=531
I had them for a while - I don't know if they are suitable for, or if a Formula rear hub is even usable with, a skip-tooth drive train on a really old tarck bike but they are fine for run-of-the-mill service. But mine didn't hold true real well. In fact - since they are machine built you prolly would need to touch them up even before using them on a more typical bike. But they were good for my purposes. In fact I currently use the similar but wider rim CR18/Formula wheels from Velomine on my fixed beach cruiser and they are fine for the slow meandering rides I do nowadays. Good luck - ride safe...
Wow, thanks for that! I just ordered directly and non-eBay, paid slightly more for shipping but came out well ahead, and I got a lock ring at the same time as I am likely to need it.

I got great input from BF on this topic, as always!
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Old 01-07-22, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by markwesti View Post
Pic of the Zeus ?
Sorry, I missed that earlier. Here's a topic I started on it -- plus I started topics on four other frames -- but the only photo is the frame once back from the powder coater. Since then, I only added the decals and a headset. Now that I have wheels coming, I'll start assembling the bike and add more/better photos to that topic.

1974 Zeus Topic
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Old 01-09-22, 02:58 PM
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They showed up today, and they look good to my eye. Rear axle looks far wider that it needs to be but I presume that's so it can be spaced to different dropout spacing. Perhaps Velomine does not make the wheels up themselves, the box was marked "Wheelmaster" and, by the way, very well packaged.
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Old 01-09-22, 03:01 PM
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8T here is NOT equal to 14T ....it's 16T !
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