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Do I want to update my Cilo w/ Shimano 600 to ~2000's Ultegra?

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Do I want to update my Cilo w/ Shimano 600 to ~2000's Ultegra?

Old 01-10-22, 05:40 PM
  #1  
the sci guy 
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Do I want to update my Cilo w/ Shimano 600 to ~2000's Ultegra?

Having a battle of conscience at the moment. Currently, my 1987 Cilo is all original Shimano 600 components: FD/RD/Crank/Brakes/hubs/headset, etc, it's downtube friction shifting, 6 speed. Pic:


But I got an '01 Cannondale R1000 that I am totally updating and I peeled all the Ultegra/105 pieces off it - and now they're just kinda sitting there. Do I want to put those on the Cilo? Yes yes I know it's a "do whatever you want it's a matter of taste & preference" kind of decision, but I'm curious what everyone else would do? Sure, the bike loses some of it's vintage allure, and the simplicity and elegance of downtube friction shifting; one might even say it's entire personality. Buuuttttt sometimes I get tired of the limited available gears, and shifting that way.

KNOWN ISSUES:
-Rear spacing is 126, and the wheels from the Cannondale are 130 - I was thinking of just trying to cram it in there and see how it went to start off with instead of going through with a cold-set and making it more permanent....
-Cannot swap crank - Cilo is Italian threaded square taper, whereas the Ultegra crank is octalink and I'm not going to try to find a BB to replace. Will keeping this crank have any ill effect trying to use the new(er) 105 FD & the STIs?
-The wheelset & hubs are burnt orange that matched the bike they came on - and those are going to look funky on that beautiful blue Cilo frame. (No I'm not dropping $$ on new wheels.)

If I don't end up doing it, I may at the very least swap the brake calipers from the 600 to the 105 because they're a little better to work with (assuming they fit).

Anyway, what do y'all think? Is it way more trouble than it's worth? Am I being stupid and I need to stop being bored and find another project?

Here's the parts available below:





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Old 01-10-22, 06:26 PM
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I wouldn’t. I’m not a huge brifter fan and having downtube friction shifters makes your bike less likely to be stolen since no one can drive a manual transmission these days
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Old 01-10-22, 07:34 PM
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Do it.

I think those wheels will look awesome on the blue bike. If you havenít done the STI on vintage steel yet, you need to. The rear hub will go on ok and if you really like it, you can cold set it later( and then regret it like I do). An issue might be the shifter bosses and how they deal with the modern stop/adjusters.
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Old 01-10-22, 07:44 PM
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Follow up question:
since I canít swap the cranks as a whole, does anyone know off the top of their heads without me going out to the garage or looking up the measurements if the BCD of the Shimano 600 spider is the same as the Ultegra crank which would allow me to swap the chainrings? (I think the Ultegra is fewer teeth)
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Old 01-10-22, 07:46 PM
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Depends on why you're keeping the cilo, I have an old bike I keep around for when I ride the bike path with people I know are slow and I don't want the newest and fastest. Will also ride it with the kids from time to time, in which case I wouldn't change it. If you have a newer bike that you now ride more, like I do, then there isn't really a need to upgrade/change the old bike. I've thought about doing so and have just never gotten around to bothering. If you want to make it newer, getting tired of the down tube shifters, the parts are getting worn, or you just want things different then updating has its advantages.
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Old 01-10-22, 07:46 PM
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All my steel bikes ride modern groups, complete or mix and match
wheels will fit as is
crank will work with just about anything
get downtube adapters for the modern brifters
easy peasy
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Old 01-10-22, 08:19 PM
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I think it all depends on what you want. I've converted a bike to brifters for my daughter, it was pretty easy to do since I had a full 9sp group. You can always swap back if you keep the parts. I wouldn't worry about anyone's opinion. My vintage bikes are mostly period correct but they all have speedplay pedals. Some people would give me crap over my pedal choice. Back to it's my choice and I'm not worried about their opinion.
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Old 01-10-22, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by the sci guy View Post
Follow up question:
since I canít swap the cranks as a whole, does anyone know off the top of their heads without me going out to the garage or looking up the measurements if the BCD of the Shimano 600 spider is the same as the Ultegra crank which would allow me to swap the chainrings? (I think the Ultegra is fewer teeth)
The BCD of both cranks should be 130. The 600 probably has 42T inner and 53 or 52T outer. The Ultegra is probably 53/39 and would have shift aids (pin and profile teeth).

As for classic 'look', the Cilo already has handlebars that is a more modern shape than most older bikes.
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Old 01-10-22, 08:46 PM
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I love my Ultegra STI setup far more than my 600 equipped downtube setup. You won't regret it.
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Old 01-10-22, 09:16 PM
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The simple answer is that since you have those extra parts you need to buy another frame to hang them on. n+1 should be your guide.
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Old 01-10-22, 11:50 PM
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I would keep it as original as possible. I would modernize it by swapping in 600 6400 dual pivot brakes , FD6401 STI compatible FD, and 2x7 speed RSX brifters . I would keep the original wheels and put a 7sp freewheel on there.
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Old 01-11-22, 12:22 AM
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As someone who has kept vintage bikes vintage, as well as updated vintage bikes with "modern" components, I say it all depends on what you want out of the bike. For me at one time, it was important to have a completely vintage bike to ride. As life has moved on, it has become more of a need to have vintage bikes that are more usable with wider gearing ranges. So, my current Zullo with 8-speed Superbe Pro and Tesch S-22 with Dura-Ace 8-speed (both with DT shifters) are both being updated to Campy 11-speed. For me, this will bring those bikes up to modern specs while allowing me to have a similar riding experience to my 11-speed Campy equipped Ritchey Carbon Breakaway which is my primary ride at this time. Will I miss the human interaction with the DT-equipped SP or DA? Probably, but will I put more miles on the bikes now? Definitely, and that to me is what is most important for me at this time of my life. I still have completely vintage rides in the form of 80s Miyata Team and Pro with DA EX and AX respectively for those fleeting occasions, as well as others in the stable. The way I look at it, relatively few of the bikes we own will ever be truly collectible in the sense that not keeping it all original will totally destroy the value. I dare say, the vast majority of our bikes on this forum are worth more broken up and sold off as pieces than as a whole. I know that this is the case with every single bike I own. So other than sentimental reasons, why not update a bike, especially if it means that you will get in more miles and hopefully a corresponding increase in enjoyment?

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Old 01-11-22, 02:46 AM
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I'd keep it as is except switch to a modern Sunrace freewheel with ramped teeth. Shifting is 100x better, especially with friction shifters. Goes into gear much quicker and less fumbling around with the shifter.
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Old 01-11-22, 04:35 AM
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That really is a question to which only you can come up with the proper answer. I went through the same dilemma a couple of years ago. In the end, I put 9 speed STI's on it and was/am glad I did so. I have a Fuji Ace that now has mustache bars on it. I have dt levers on it. I am using them in friction mode with a nine speed cassette and mishmash of a drivetrain. With friction mode, one can get just about anything to work, and the maintenance is a whole lot easier. So, the answer for me was two different bikes. No need to change either one of them. The real bonus for me, the Fuji frameset was given to me, most of the rest of the bike is stuff I had on hand.
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Old 01-11-22, 05:07 AM
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The majority of my vintage fleet is Campag 10 Ergo Power. However, I still have a few downtube shifter bikes for reasons already mentioned. The chief reason is because Ergo/STI shifters have (in my opinion) created riders who have a very narrowly focused power band. Many riders use the shifters as a CVT and don't develop a broader range of strength/technique at cadences/gearing other than what they constantly shift to with Ergo/STI. Downtube shifters aren't as accessable and require the rider to seat before shifting so in some instantances where a Ergo/STI shiift would occur, the downtube shifter rider will "muscle it out" with strength and technique. I absolutley prefer Ergo levers but for my pruposes, downtube shifters have a place as well.

OP, what brake levers are pictured on the bike now?
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Old 01-11-22, 05:17 AM
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Here's how resolved this issue;
Do I want to mostly ride it or look at it?

The orange wheelset is going to be super cool or super awful, try the front wheel and see.
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Old 01-11-22, 06:23 AM
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Buy another frame that is neo-vintage and install that stuff. Or if you love the Cilo as an everyday rider, update and ride it...or not.

I have 600 EX stuff on one bike (Nishiki Tri A), and when I ride it, it feels right to reach for the shift levers and see the tangle of cable. I have a Basso Gap that has 1990s Campagnolo stuff. It feels right (my favorite).
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Old 01-11-22, 12:51 PM
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Do it and see if you like it.
​​​​You can always put it back the way it was if you don't like it.
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Old 01-11-22, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by davester View Post
The simple answer is that since you have those extra parts you need to buy another frame to hang them on. n+1 should be your guide.
I actually just sold 2 bikes because i needed a) space in the garage, b) money

Originally Posted by nomadmax View Post
The majority of my vintage fleet is Campag 10 Ergo Power. However, I still have a few downtube shifter bikes for reasons already mentioned. The chief reason is because Ergo/STI shifters have (in my opinion) created riders who have a very narrowly focused power band. Many riders use the shifters as a CVT and don't develop a broader range of strength/technique at cadences/gearing other than what they constantly shift to with Ergo/STI. Downtube shifters aren't as accessable and require the rider to seat before shifting so in some instantances where a Ergo/STI shiift would occur, the downtube shifter rider will "muscle it out" with strength and technique. I absolutley prefer Ergo levers but for my pruposes, downtube shifters have a place as well.

OP, what brake levers are pictured on the bike now?
As a bike commuter on a single speed, i am pretty used to doing everything through more effort, instead of shifting gears.

Currently the Cilo has Soma Highway 1 bars with Cane Creek SCR-5c levers. (for smaller hands)

Originally Posted by BTinNYC View Post
Here's how resolved this issue;
Do I want to mostly ride it or look at it?

The orange wheelset is going to be super cool or super awful, try the front wheel and see.
Ride it. You think it'll look good? I'm having a hard time seeing it in my head. Good thought to just put the front wheel on and see what it looks like. I will give that a try.
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Old 01-11-22, 04:27 PM
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I think the gold wheels will look pretty cool with the Cilo.
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Old 01-12-22, 08:58 AM
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I think the Cilo is on the small side for you, I would sell the Cilo and buy a comparable frame a couple of centimeters taller to put the parts on.
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Old 01-12-22, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. 66 View Post
I think the Cilo is on the small side for you, I would sell the Cilo and buy a comparable frame a couple of centimeters taller to put the parts on.
Nah i'm 5'5" and this is the best fitting bike I've ever had as it's set up. Plus it's gorgeous I will not be selling it.
I know putting the ultegra sti's will add a couple CMs of reach since the hood ramps are longer, but i think it should be ok.
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Old 01-12-22, 06:08 PM
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Don't know why you are saying you can't find octalink

v1 105 5500
https://www.performancebike.com/shim...9194?v=1155658

V2 un300 70 x 113
https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...BoCHbEQAvD_BwE
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Old 01-12-22, 06:40 PM
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I would just swap the brakes. The front one only if the frame is not recessed mounting, as the front is easy to drill. Brake upgrade to dual pivots, as long as they're still shiny silver, is always always a good thing to do imo. Posterity be damned.

Otherwise imo the black spokes will look awful and the whole swap is only a good idea if you can find some attractive wheels and the bb to do the crank also. Black hubs in a chromed fork... blerugh
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Old 01-12-22, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by the sci guy View Post
Follow up question:
since I canít swap the cranks as a whole, does anyone know off the top of their heads without me going out to the garage or looking up the measurements if the BCD of the Shimano 600 spider is the same as the Ultegra crank which would allow me to swap the chainrings? (I think the Ultegra is fewer teeth)
yes they will both be 130 bcd
i've done a very similiar thing, it works, but it's not without issue. The crank arm spacing between rings is wider on the older crank, and so with narrow rings and a narrow chain and the wider spacing, the chain can kinda jam between the rings

I would happily run a frankenbike setup like that but I would not modify a complete set into it from either direction. Especially as your more modern crank is shiny and will still look good on a vintage frame and the bb for it exists.
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