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-   -   Stuck, crossthreaded BB. (https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/1245179-stuck-crossthreaded-bb.html)

grant40 01-14-22 04:24 PM

Stuck, crossthreaded BB.
 
I have this 80s Galaxy 2 10 speed that I am planning to repair and upgrade to square taper cranks. I could not get the BB shells out as the notches have ramped edges and the tool slides out under any pressure. The threads are also severely crossthreaded (probably from factory).

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3ca9300208.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5096b1c364.jpg



I am planning on putting in a Sunlite threadles BB, do you guys think this BB will work with my bike?

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c7fe05252c.jpg

cyccommute 01-14-22 04:35 PM

The is my homemade tool is for removing the fixed cup on the bottom bracket. It’s aimed more at the fixed cup side but it would work for the adjustable cup side as well and allow you to get more leverage on the tool without it camming out of the cup. Instead of the Park HCW-4, use an HCW-11.

Since you have a cottered crank, you’ll need the crank arm to hold the tool in place. Use the nondrive arm and turn it around to give you more room.

Tool Assembly
The parts for the nutted spindle needed are shown here. Most everything can be found in just about any shop. The large fender washer is probably the only thing you’ll have to go to a hardware store for.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/8X...ktYllSpuZqWGHN
A large fender washer, an adjustable cup, and the spindle nut are needed. Another washer may be needed to get the spacing right. The order of assembly follows
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Sx...Ox2v2WeGAPzgEN

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/Ff..._ZPL2HcYwTN6XS

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/I_...sp4QdyXgMU8Pjv

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/8R...fNSkUcRFUzymI_
From above it should look like this
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/St...3LoioF8YOiECSM
Turn the wrench as usual. If more leverage is needed, a cheater bar is needed.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/cl...KIgp5pKrc8o_8Q
For bolted spindles, the order of assembly is the same except a bolt is needed.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/RK...ciri2A55WyEJ90

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/Vo...vDkKb4QKzDYw6W
This method is much easier to use than other methods I’ve used. The spindle stabilizes the wrench and turns with it much like a cartridge bearing does. It makes it easier to remove the fixed cup and results in less blood spilled.

grant40 01-14-22 04:37 PM


Originally Posted by cyccommute (Post 22374323)
The is my homemade tool is for removing the fixed cup on the bottom bracket. It’s aimed more at the fixed cup side but it would work for the adjustable cup side as well and allow you to get more leverage on the tool without it camming out of the cup. Instead of the Park HCW-4, use an HCW-11.

Since you have a cottered crank, you’ll need the crank arm to hold the tool in place. Use the nondrive arm and turn it around to give you more room.

Tool Assembly
The parts for the nutted spindle needed are shown here. Most everything can be found in just about any shop. The large fender washer is probably the only thing you’ll have to go to a hardware store for.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/8X...ktYllSpuZqWGHN
A large fender washer, an adjustable cup, and the spindle nut are needed. Another washer may be needed to get the spacing right. The order of assembly follows
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Sx...Ox2v2WeGAPzgEN

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/Ff..._ZPL2HcYwTN6XS

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/I_...sp4QdyXgMU8Pjv

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/8R...fNSkUcRFUzymI_
From above it should look like this
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/St...3LoioF8YOiECSM
Turn the wrench as usual. If more leverage is needed, a cheater bar is needed.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/cl...KIgp5pKrc8o_8Q
For bolted spindles, the order of assembly is the same except a bolt is needed.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/RK...ciri2A55WyEJ90

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/Vo...vDkKb4QKzDYw6W
This method is much easier to use than other methods I’ve used. The spindle stabilizes the wrench and turns with it much like a cartridge bearing does. It makes it easier to remove the fixed cup and results in less blood spilled.

The drive side has the same exact style of cafes the non drive side.

TPL 01-14-22 05:43 PM

yes, the threadless b/b will work ....get the correct length

EddyR 01-14-22 07:01 PM

A crude way that will work is a vice grip and a long bar. Putting the arm back on and shimming it to the vice grip will help.
Ed

gugie 01-14-22 08:17 PM

I bought a Raleigh International a few years ago, didn't notice that the fixed and adjustable cups were on the wrong side. How that happened is beyond me, but obviously I wanted to remove them. I used an angle grinder to carefully make some flats on both sides of the adjustable cup, filed them down square, and clamped it on my big vise. I was able to unscrew it. The fixed cup came out the same way, since it already had flats on it.

repechage 01-14-22 08:52 PM


Originally Posted by grant40 (Post 22374324)
The drive side has the same exact style of cafes the non drive side.

splendid idea for a cotterless spindle and a fixed cup and adjustable cup with bores. The original inquiry has a cottered spindle and notches.
have to think about how to proceed.

Prowler 01-14-22 09:02 PM

I recently used the cyccommute approach shown above on the NDS for loosing an adjustable cup lock ring. 'Twas a very neglected bike and the lock ring was very tight/frozen/corroded on. I needed a lot of force and those thin wrenches slip off that thin ring quite easily. Used the same type large washer and spare adj cup but c-clamped the wrench to the washer. Snugged it all down with the crank bolt and grunted. The lock ring came loose without any slipping nor damage to the notches. Nice technique.

randyjawa 01-14-22 10:32 PM

Though it would ruin the threads on the cross threaded cup, I would try to fit a 12" pipe wrench on the protruding threaded section and remove the cup. Might not be enough to grab, but that would be my first attempt. I have done it before on a bottom bracket and very hard to remove freewheel hub. The bb cup was shot, once removed, the the hardened freewheel hub was still useable.

RiddleOfSteel 01-14-22 11:37 PM

Old and/or original three piece BBs on medium and low end bikes are the worst to deal with because their owners often don't take care of them. Nearly 40 years down the road, we get the gift of it being seized. [This is not to say that highly desirable bikes don't also suffer that fate. They do, and the stakes are considerably higher if failure or damage is incurred] As that is the non drive side cup, the protruding threads are there to accommodate a lock ring (that isn't present--don't know if it came like that to you). There is a specific spanner that properly interfaces with that cup's slots. You could certainly search online or see if a shop has it. If you haven't run some PB Blaster or other penetrating lubricant (aka not WD-40, but if it's all ya got, it's free to try) and let it sit for a day or two, you could give that a shot. Now, if you don't really have a place to work on your bike that lets those fumes and smells properly ventilate, that makes it tricky.

The 'sandwich' methods of gently clamping/holding the tool to the BB cup with big washers etc (for me it's washers and a left side crank arm) works beautifully, as does (if possible/not harming non-aero routed brake cables) flipping the bike upside down and putting it on the ground. For heavy BB work like this, I always put the bike on the ground (rubber side down), that way any gorilla-level efforts (usually in the downward direction) are naturally dealt with by the bike (like a rider's weight or pedaling force). When it's on the stand, one can bend and/or crimp the tubing if one is really going to town. It's also not as solid, so you can't really lean on it or hit with your weight or any tools without risking damage. Upside down and on the ground gets you stability, and a whole bunch of tubes not in your way. I've done this for recalcitrant pedal removal as well.

oneclick 01-15-22 08:18 AM


Originally Posted by grant40 (Post 22374303)
I have this 80s Galaxy 2 10 speed that I am planning to repair and upgrade to square taper cranks. I could not get the BB shells out as the notches have ramped edges and the tool slides out under any pressure. The threads are also severely crossthreaded (probably from factory).

a) take the axle out the other end, then use a threaded axle or a big screw and clamp the tool to the cup with a big washer as others have described; if the axle won't come out that side -
b) use a Dremel with a cutoff wheel and cut two flats out of the exposed sides, put it and the frame in a vice. Clamp it like you mean it, your flats are likely not perfectly square.

Reynolds 01-15-22 08:26 AM

If all of the above fails, you could weld some scrap to the cup and hold it on a vise. This will damage the paint though.

Mr. 66 01-15-22 09:42 AM

One other destructive method would be to cut or grind the cup perpendicularly down to the threads on the inside, clamp and collapse, that would pop it off the thread and could be pulled from there.

cyccommute 01-15-22 10:16 AM


Originally Posted by grant40 (Post 22374324)
The drive side has the same exact style of cafes the non drive side.

Not sure what you mean by “cafes”.

jdawginsc 01-15-22 10:33 AM

The cottered attachment does not lend itself to bolting it down. Are both cups cross threaded and stuck?

In that case a pair of gigantic vice grips or pipe wrench are probably your only bets. If you can get the NDS cup off, you could use the method suggested above for the fixed cup.

nlerner 01-15-22 10:42 AM

Apply 50/50 mix of acetone and automatic transmission fluid.
Wait 24 hours.
Wail on that cup with a punch and large hammer.

grant40 01-15-22 01:45 PM


Originally Posted by cyccommute (Post 22374933)
Not sure what you mean by “cafes”.

I'm really confused. I think I have been trying to say cups.

RiddleOfSteel 01-15-22 02:05 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 22374953)
Apply 50/50 mix of acetone and automatic transmission fluid.
Wait 24 hours.
Wail on that cup with a punch and large hammer.

ATF is well known for helping old rusty engines' piston rings un-stick themselves from the cylinder walls, so this makes sense here. The other stuff is clearly Outside Work where noise and space are more easily dealt with. Works for my situation. :)

Mad Honk 01-15-22 04:00 PM

Grant,
The pics posted are of an adjustable cup side. Cyclocommute sent the right info on removing the fixed cup and then using a bolt and nut assembly aka Sheldon Brown method to remove the adjustable cup. I have some specialty tools here that I use for this type of repair but they are a bit pricey. I suggest the method mentioned above to remove the BB from the fixed side first. Smiles, MH

jdawginsc 01-15-22 05:22 PM

Pictures of the DS/fixed cup would be helpful. As others mentioned above, this might be a BB you remove in backwards order...fixed then adjustable. The fixed should have flats to hold with a wrench, whereas the adjustable will simply have to be yanked out with a thread crushing wrench of sorts...

madpogue 01-15-22 08:28 PM

^^^^^ +1, start on the fixed side if it's any less effed than the adjustable side. For that matter, with the spindle out, there may be less stress (or side force or whatever you'd call it) on the adjustable cup and it may become less recalcitrant to come out.

grant40 01-15-22 08:39 PM


Originally Posted by jdawginsc (Post 22375423)
Pictures of the DS/fixed cup would be helpful. As others mentioned above, this might be a BB you remove in backwards order...fixed then adjustable. The fixed should have flats to hold with a wrench, whereas the adjustable will simply have to be yanked out with a thread crushing wrench of sorts...

The fixed side is the same style as the adjustable side except it is completely inside of the frame.

cyccommute 01-15-22 08:56 PM


Originally Posted by Mad Honk (Post 22375358)
Grant,
The pics posted are of an adjustable cup side. Cyclocommute sent the right info on removing the fixed cup and then using a bolt and nut assembly aka Sheldon Brown method to remove the adjustable cup. I have some specialty tools here that I use for this type of repair but they are a bit pricey. I suggest the method mentioned above to remove the BB from the fixed side first. Smiles, MH

In this instance, I wouldn’t remove the fixed cup first. The tool clamping method would make for a better connection and provide for more leverage to remove a cross threaded cup. Leaving the spindle in place will stabilize the tools as well.

cyccommute 01-15-22 09:01 PM


Originally Posted by grant40 (Post 22374303)
I am planning on putting in a Sunlite threadles BB, do you guys think this BB will work with my bike?

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c7fe05252c.jpg

I don’t know that you need to go with the threadless bottom bracket. Even with a cross threaded bottom bracket, it’s fairly easy to have the threads chased to straighten them out. A cartridge bottom bracket is a good way to go but threaded is probably better.

Mad Honk 01-15-22 09:42 PM


Originally Posted by cyccommute (Post 22375602)
In this instance, I wouldn’t remove the fixed cup first. The tool clamping method would make for a better connection and provide for more leverage to remove a cross threaded cup. Leaving the spindle in place will stabilize the tools as well.

In the case that both sides are of the same design I would use a semi deep socket that will fit over the spindle but would engage the removal tool (or two one on each side) and then use a c-clamp to hold the tool in place. And then use a wrench and if needed a cheater bar. Smiles, MH


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