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Phil Bottom Bracket??

Old 01-26-22, 04:27 PM
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Phil Bottom Bracket??

Ok, before I upset the more experienced, I put in over two hours research, concerning WHAT taper to J.I.S. VS I.S.O. use when ordering, a Phill wood bottom bracket. I have used the Sheldon site, stuff some German site and every where else in between. I stopped myself when my old trigonometry brain stared to fire up. I am in the 1978/1987??? Campagnolo Nuovo Record, Super record Crank. Italian thread 69mm shell width. 116 mm for chainlink;;;;; Which Taper?? I need some fish! Best road195
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Old 01-26-22, 04:56 PM
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You can drop a line to Phil Wood themselves. They've been pretty good about customer service. In fact, I think I contacted them when I was buying a Phil titanium BB as a treat to myself.

I will say that there seemed to be a taper mismatch between the Phil and my Campy cranks. I'm not sure if the Campy cranks had been used on a non-Campy axle previously. All I know is that the crank bolt was loose after a number of rides, which was a new experience for me. When I installed some SunXCD cranks on a Specialized BB a few years ago, I wasn't sure about the compatibility of the tapers, so I checked the bolt torque after each ride. It only took a few rides before they didn't need snugging up, which I interpret as the crank's aluminum deforming enough to completely contact the axle taper. No problems since... both for the SunXCD and the Campy (on the Phil BB).

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Old 01-26-22, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by road195 View Post
Ok, before I upset the more experienced, I put in over two hours research, concerning WHAT taper to J.I.S. VS I.S.O. use when ordering, a Phill wood bottom bracket. I have used the Sheldon site, stuff some German site and every where else in between. I stopped myself when my old trigonometry brain stared to fire up. I am in the 1978/1987??? Campagnolo Nuovo Record, Super record Crank. Italian thread 69mm shell width. 116 mm for chainlink;;;;; Which Taper?? I need some fish! Best road195
This far down the line it may not matter, that being said, it can. Many used cranks now days have been subjected to both and stretched/reformed to one or the other.

I would reach out to Phil and run it by them, it can change the offset/Q factor depending on the extent of the above.

You could also try and get one of each from a co-op for test fitting.

I have never worried about it using trial and error but have also never bought a new Phil BB.
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Old 01-26-22, 05:12 PM
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Knowledgeable people on this forum have stated that Campyís pre-1990s taper was closer to JIS than ISO.

I have an Ď81 post CPSC NR crank on a Phil BB back in the US but wonít be able to measure it for another month or so, if you can wait that long.
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Old 01-26-22, 06:01 PM
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Reached out to Phil, etc. it seems to be a vague answer, no one wants to commit? This vintage stuff isn’t that old mid 80s.. anyway thanks for all input, I will keep looking. Phil says post 1994 it’s one type and pre another, quoting from people who have called there it seems to be a different generation?
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Old 01-26-22, 06:08 PM
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Phil makes both ISO and JIS tapers now, and I suspect they have for a long time. If you go on their website, they have photos of the tapers so you might be able to figure it out that way.

Also keep in mind that because Phil cups do not have a flat that snugs up against the drive side, you have possible side-to-side adjustment of 3 or 4mm, give or take. Maybe even 5mm. Maybe.
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Old 01-26-22, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by road195 View Post
Reached out to Phil, etc. it seems to be a vague answer, no one wants to commit? This vintage stuff isnít that old mid 80s.. anyway thanks for all input, I will keep looking. Phil says post 1994 itís one type and pre another, quoting from people who have called there it seems to be a different generation?
I know you have already put a lot of time and effort into this but I would encourage you to really dig in and test fit, swap, evaluate and scrutinize hands on with all that you have.

This really can be a very valuable learning experience that the process alone can serve you very well from now on.

I know it can be a frustrating time suck but experience is seldom easy.
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Old 01-26-22, 08:47 PM
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With "experienced" cranksets, I put a known BB in the bike and mount the cranks. Measure the chainline. Observe where the left crank lies. From there I draw or calculate what spindle length and asymmetry I need to put each crank where I want it. (Shimano sealed bearing BBs work really well for this but you are limited to JIS. I suspect Sugino 75s and their current equivalent meet the same standards and would be ISO but that's an expensive way to go. Going to a coop and trying one of their BBs might be a good option in a non-COVID world/)
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Old 01-26-22, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by road195 View Post
Reached out to Phil, etc. it seems to be a vague answer, no one wants to commit? This vintage stuff isnít that old mid 80s.. anyway thanks for all input, I will keep looking. Phil says post 1994 itís one type and pre another, quoting from people who have called there it seems to be a different generation?
...the last time I ordered a Phil BB unit for a late 70's/ early 80's Campy NR crank, I called them directly. Whoever answered the phone told me to hang on, then came back after checking with someone who claimed to know the answer. I ordered the one with JIS taper, as they advised. It worked out fine.

That's the best I got for you.
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Old 01-27-22, 07:57 AM
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I have only one bike with a Phil BB and it came that way from the previous owner and is running an Ambrosio crank( Same as Campy) . The only problem I had when I reassembled the bike after paint was the chain line. I had never done that adjustment before as all my other bikes had fixed cups Ö no adjustment. I did not measure the end of spindle to BB shell before taking it apart so I had to sort of trial and error maneuver that was tedious but worked well once it was set. I think with that much adjustment it would be able to handle a triple , which is a nice option for my aging bod.
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Old 01-27-22, 11:55 AM
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I use ISO on my Campy's, JIS on Japanese stuff.
Really you can use JIS on it also, It isn't recommended to put the crank ISO/JIS/ISO (flipping back and forth). ISO was original but if it has been on a JIS taper, use JIS from then on.
Just verify the torque once in a while on any Square Taper crank and you shouldn't have any problems.
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Old 01-27-22, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by road195 View Post
Ok, before I upset the more experienced, I put in over two hours research, concerning WHAT taper to J.I.S. VS I.S.O. use when ordering, a Phill wood bottom bracket. I have used the Sheldon site, stuff some German site and every where else in between. I stopped myself when my old trigonometry brain stared to fire up. I am in the 1978/1987??? Campagnolo Nuovo Record, Super record Crank. Italian thread 69mm shell width. 116 mm for chainlink;;;;; Which Taper?? I need some fish! Best road195
Probably this one, in 115mm length for a Record or Super Record crank of that era:

https://phil-wood-co.myshopify.com/c...iant=559333285
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Old 01-27-22, 02:06 PM
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To All, after REREADING slowly today, as well as other great input, public and private. I see that the Phil Wood site does correctly describe, the correct taper to use. IF it is PRE-1994 use JIS ..... After 1994 ISO. WE are talking Campagnolo Crank brand only. Thanks for everyone being there! road195
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Old 01-27-22, 02:08 PM
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For Campy Cranks of that era, it's an ISO Taper. My son actually just got one for his Super Record Cranks, and I use ISO Taper for my Record Cranks. These are not easy to find new, Phil is VERY low on stock. IRD make a Bottom Bracket as good, and much less money...
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Old 01-27-22, 02:11 PM
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Guys, I assure you it's an ISO taper. As Sheldon Brown says, JIS will likely work, but it is an ISO taper.
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Old 01-27-22, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by NitroExpress View Post
For Campy Cranks of that era, it's an ISO Taper. My son actually just got one for his Super Record Cranks, and I use ISO Taper for my Record Cranks. These are not easy to find new, Phil is VERY low on stock. IRD make a Bottom Bracket as good, and much less money...
Originally Posted by NitroExpress View Post
Guys, I assure you it's an ISO taper. As Sheldon Brown says, JIS will likely work, but it is an ISO taper.
...I'm old, but usually I forget stuff, not create stuff in my mind. I know who I called, I know what they said, I know what I ordered, and I know that it worked, because I still have the bike. I don't doubt at all that an ISO taper might also work on one of these. But at the time (maybe ten or twelve years ago), Phil was recommending the JIS unit as closer to the original as a substitute. Nobody explained to me why, and I didn't ask. It's not like Campagnolo didn't **** with me over the years on other stuff.

And at the time, Phil Wood was not low on anything. They were gonna get my hunnert bucks either way.
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Old 01-27-22, 03:10 PM
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Just looked at the Phil site - they indicate a Campagnolo specific bottom bracket- don't call out a taper scheme but do have a quirk of 100 mm alloy shell... must be a typo
they want an offset called out-
one will need a measure...
I can see an issue if the spindle taper engages more or less than anticipated.

for classic Campagnolo record cranks it would be 113 to 115, but I would have to measure the offset.
113 would be pre CPSC
115 post CPSC
but that darn taper start dimension.
the interpolation is on you but not enough info to make an absolute decision
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Old 01-27-22, 03:33 PM
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Check this link out: https://phil-wood-co.myshopify.com/c...ts/campy-taper
Campy/ISO Taper
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Old 01-27-22, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by NitroExpress View Post
Check this link out: https://phil-wood-co.myshopify.com/c...ts/campy-taper
Campy/ISO Taper

...yes. Campagnolo made cranks with their name on them that took different tapers over the years. That's exactly why this topic is often confusing, and why I called them to ask before I ordered mine. As god is my witness.
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