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Benotto 3000 : what model year ?

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Benotto 3000 : what model year ?

Old 02-23-22, 02:32 AM
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Benotto 3000 : what model year ?

yes

Last edited by GP210; 04-27-23 at 12:42 PM.
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Old 02-23-22, 04:22 AM
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Originally Posted by GP210
Hello everyone,

Could you help to identify what model year is this bike ? is there a Patent date on the RD? Did you get wheels? Check for a date code on the inside of the lock nuts.

I assume between 1978 and 1982.
Anyone could decode the serial number ? It would be helpful if you posted the numbers on the bb shell. It can be difficult to read them off a picture sometimes.

Thanks,






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Old 02-23-22, 06:08 AM
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Been to this page?

https://machiine.com/2015/benotto-bi...-model-part-2/

From which and other information -

If it has campagnolo dropouts it's a 3000, good; otherwise check for cracks around the bb shell/tube junctions.
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Old 02-23-22, 08:27 AM
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Based on other Benotto 3000 that I have seen, I'd place this circa 1980-1981 and would be leaning towards the latter. We know it's no older than the 1978 model model year as it has the 1977 Camapione del Mondo decal celebrationg Moser's victory at San Cristobal on August 27. It also has what appears to be Portacatena dropouts, which were introduced in the fall of 1977 for the 1978 model year.

However, I believe we can eliminate 1978 as I have seen other model 3000 with Portacatena dropouts that had the derailleur cable routed over the BB shell. These would be no older than the 1978 model yearbased on the dropouts and since the OP's frame has cables routed over the BB shell, it should be newer.

Similarly, I believe we can eliminate 1979, as I've seen othe model 3000 with Portacatena dropouts and cables routed under the BB shell but with brakes calipers that use exposed brake nuts, unlike the OP's frame, which appears to use recessed nuts.

Finally, the 1982 model 3000 I've seen have used a brazed-on front derailleur hanger, while the OP's frame requires a traditonal clamp style front derailleur. So, the OP's frame would appear to be older than 1982.

That leaves 1980-1981. We may be able to increase our confidence level via the date codes on the rear derailleur, crankarms and hub lock nuts.
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Old 02-23-22, 03:09 PM
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Thank you to all and especially T-Mar, very knowledgable :-)

on the rear derailleur I have the inscription "Patent 78" It is "super Record"
on the front derailleur, it looks to be 4 holes "Record" only for 1978
https://velobase.com/ViewComponent.a...=113&AbsPos=19

For the Crank arms, I have "STRADA 7"
I guess "7" stand for the date code, but I don't know how to decode.

For frame serial number I have 5-0-56
56 looks for the length of the seat tube
is 0 for 1980 ? and 5 for May ?
The other number, 1-1821, any meaning ?







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Old 02-23-22, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by GP210

I guess "7" stand for the date code...


OP: yes, that's the date code and stands for 1977.

That right there is why dating by codes on the existing parts is a lottery; people swap parts in/out all the time. There's just no way to accurately know a bike's history of changes - or whether one has retained original spec since new.

That said, I think 1981 is about right, too. Diamond stays, cable routing under the shell, Portacatena dropouts - which appear to be non-threaded. The brake bridge seems to be the Gipiemme version with the separate threaded insert for recessed application (my Bianchi from 1981 uses the same). Also, it appears the "Benotto" script cast into the seatstay caps is the later, slanting version - perhaps a transitional piece? Would need a close-up photo to confirm, but it doesn't look as though it matches the frame decal graphics from here.

Niiiiiice frameset, OP! The chrome on the fork looks near-perfect; that's gonna build up into a super-fine bike

DD

Last edited by Drillium Dude; 02-23-22 at 04:55 PM.
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Old 02-23-22, 04:49 PM
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Nice bike! Looks like the one Rebecca Twigg (and the rest of the 7-Eleven Women's team too maybe?) rode in '82.
Photograph of a poster (Pearl Izumi ad), so not the best quality image:


Here's a little better view of the bike:

You can see it has the cables under the BB, and the same crown. Can't see the seatstay top eye very well, but here's a pic of Rebecca on her track Benotto, same year, shows the seatstay top better:


Mark B in Seattle
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Old 02-23-22, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by bulgie


Interesting in that she's using an NR brake lever for the rear brake and an SR lever for the front; also, the rear QR is a straight blade while the front is curved. Note the location of the Columbus decal is on the seat tube, just above the BB shell; also on this version, it doesn't appear there is any script on the seatstay cap at all. I wonder what the little flap of yellow tape on the rear brake cable curve denotes?

Nice, fat tubulars, too, which probably explains the brake adjusters set with so much thread showing.

DD

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Old 02-23-22, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by GP210
Could you help to identify what model year is this bike ?
I assume between 1978 and 1982.
Hey ​​​​GP210 can you tell me, is Benotto engraved (or cast, "engraved look") in the top of the crown, right and left over the blades? This isn't to help date it, sorry I can't help there, but you've already gotten good advice on that. I'm just curious because when I was at Davidson, we got a number of those crowns from Takahashi, which I believe means they were cast in Japan, probably by Hitachi. I'd be very surprised if those were cast in the '70s, I think early '80s more likely, but that's only based on the frame parts I saw back then. And I know for sure I wasn't seeing everything that existed (duh!) There's a slight chance that the crowns we got were an exact copy, but I don't think so, I think they were the very ones Benotto used.

The Takahashi crowns that I think were Benotto came to us in about '84-'85. They had the tops lathe-turned, presumably to remove whatever logo was there, possibly engraved or pantagraphed, but I think more likely cast-in. It is rare to the point of non-existence to see machining done there on a cast crown, so they had to be "erasing" something. The story I heard was they were Benotto crowns that Takahashi was stuck with when Benotto decided not to take the number of crowns they had committed to. Don't take that as gospel; I don't remember whether that was relayed as fact, or maybe Davidson was just guessing, or something like that.

The only reason I have for thinking the logo was cast-in rather than pantographed is that casting is cheaper when you're making more than a few. More investment in the molds, but when you save the cost of pantographing on each unit you make, at some point casting the logo is cheaper. Our Davidson seatstay top-eyes were cast by Takahashi (or whatever foundry they subcontracted to, sometimes Hitachi) and the lettering of the Davidson name was very crisp. Lots of people told me they assumed they were pantographed. The fidelity or resolution of edges and fine details in their castings was amazing.

Those Benotto crowns were aesthetically pleasing, to my eye. Since we got them at a very good price and had enough of them to sell to other builders, I tried to get Peter Weigle interested. He was putting heart-shaped cutouts in lots of places on his frames back then, so I carved hearts in the sides of one of those crowns and sent it to him, but he didn't bite, I guess he didn't like them as much as I did.

They are the older style of cast crown where the tangs for the blades are separate parts, stamped out of sheetmetal. There were pockets cast into the blade sockets to take the tangs. In the '90s and after, the fashion switched to crowns with the tangs cast integrally. Nothing wrong with the separate tangs really except the builder has to pay a tiny bit more attention to making sure the tangs ware fully wetted with filler (e.g. brass or silver), both to the crown and to the blade. Integral tangs have one less surface you need to get the filler to flow out on. One small advantage of separate tangs is it gave the builder one more place to show individuality, such as with cutouts. The "four aces" cutouts were popular but at some point became sort of a cliché. Integral tangs had to be thicker too, because casting really thin edges is difficult and ends up being expensive due to a higher number of rejects, where the molten steel doesn't flow out everywhere in the mold. I think pretty much everyone agreed the tangs were only decorative, not helping appreciably with strength or stiffness, and thin edges are generally desirable on high-end frames & forks. The thinness of the edges was one of the standards high-end frames were judged by, and hand-thinning with files is slow and expensive, so starting out with thin edges that don't need thinning was considered a plus. I think later, thicker lug edges began to be seen as more acceptable, even on fancy frames. So most IC lugs were not thinned, they were just left looking the way they looked right out of the box. This saved the framebuilder a lot of time/money but some individuality was lost and frames started to all look the same. Some FBs started doing other goofy sh¡t to differentiate their product, like MS or Gilco shaped tubes, aero features, straight unraked blades etc. The last dying gasps of the steel racing frame before the nonferrous competition started eating their lunch.

OK that's quite enough rambling on about a very trivial detail, hope I didn't put anyone to sleep.

Mark B

Last edited by bulgie; 02-23-22 at 08:31 PM.
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Old 03-21-23, 03:26 PM
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Benotto 3000

I wanted to post pics of a Benotto frameset I have but apparently haven't posted on BF enough yet. So, I'll work on adding more posts and try to add pics here before long. In the meantime, if anyone is interested in seeing pics I have it listed on CL in SF, CA. 56c-t.

Based on all the great info in this thread (thanks T-Mar and others) I think this is the 3000 model. Please correct me if I'm wrong - I did read one post saying there might have been another model with some of these features but all other info I've seen points to the 3000.

Diamond shaped chainstays, Campy Portacatena rear drop-out and raised lettering on the seat stay caps. The bb shell stamps are: 1 2553 and 56-12-0. Made in 1980?

I bought this from original owner in East Bay/SF. It had first gen DuraAce on it, assuming it was a frameset built up by the shop. He had it powder-coated later on (the decals aren't real, printed on paper and att'd w/ racer's tape - they look good from 4' away but will come off easy and clean). I bought it thinking a friend would appreciate it but that didn't work out. It's not my size so if someone is interested let me know - would like to see if find it's way to the right home. Also just listed it on CL in SF.
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Old 03-22-23, 01:26 AM
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Hello,
Your bike is from December 1980, Size 56 cm.
Mine is from May 1980.

I would like to see pics from yours.
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Old 07-20-23, 05:09 AM
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Dear all, I have a question about a -I think- an Benotto 3000 frame. All tubes are ovel, Cable routing rear brake inside but open on the underside of the tube. Cable routing for rear dera; under the shifter direct inside along BB and through chain-stay. at the end of the chain-stay through a small hole near the dropout. Cable routing for front dera also intern via BBOverll very short lugs with for example a very fine seat tube lug (seen in some pic in a 3000. Diamant chainstays. BB numbers left 52,.5 ( = CT ) right start with B and then a 3 but top down so it looks like a B after that typical 3 an number 3561. The BB have the typical Benotto opening (B and a kind of a triangle. And a closed I Seatstay at the top embossed Benotto (diecast I think) and the "bridge between the seat stays have the B debossed. The seattube have a little undercut for the rearwheel -. So what is it ? an AERO 3000 and ifso do you have extra info about the history of this kind of frames. Thank inadvance for any suggestion.
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Old 07-20-23, 07:53 AM
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vdV, sounds like you have a Modelo 5000 Turbo.
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