Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

I Disassembled a 44-Year-Old De Rosa Last Night

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

I Disassembled a 44-Year-Old De Rosa Last Night

Old 02-26-22, 02:38 PM
  #1  
tremolo1965
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
tremolo1965's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: PNW - Skagit Valley
Posts: 126

Bikes: 1970 Schwinn Suburban, 1973 Raleigh Sports, 1978 De Rosa

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 76 Times in 16 Posts
I Disassembled a 44-Year-Old De Rosa Last Night

Iíve owned this 58.5cm 1978 since February 2012, posted about the bike a few times. I decided it was time to do a full tear-down, re-grease, inspect, etc. It came apart beautifully, parts are cleaned up and in drawers.

Iím reassured at the lack of rust inside the tubes (that I can see) - had thought about spraying something inside, but donít see the need to gunk things up, given she is kept in the house and babied after rides..

Perhaps more interesting from a historical perspective - the frame was aligned and brazed with Ďpinnedí joints, visible on the BB / Chainstay, and BB / Downtube junctions. Here are some photos..

Doing a little clean-up, touching up cable guides, etc., and putting her back together over the next couple weeks.





tremolo1965 is offline  
Old 02-26-22, 03:01 PM
  #2  
Spaghetti Legs 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 4,648

Bikes: Numerous

Mentioned: 122 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1492 Post(s)
Liked 1,744 Times in 636 Posts
That is a nice one in really good shape!
__________________
N = '96 Colnago C40, '04 Wilier Alpe D'Huez, '10 Colnago EPS, '85 Merckx Pro, '89 Merckx Century, '86 Tommasini Professional, '04 Teschner Aero FX Pro, '05 Alan Carbon Cross, '86 De Rosa Professional, '82 Colnago Super, '95 Gios Compact Pro, '95 Carrera Zeus, '84 Basso Gap, Ď89 Cinelli Supercorsa, Ď83 Bianchi Specialissima, ĎVO Randonneur, Ritchey Breakaway Steel, '84 Paletti Super Prestige, Heron Randonneur

Spaghetti Legs is offline  
Likes For Spaghetti Legs:
Old 02-26-22, 03:20 PM
  #3  
Cratecruncher
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2021
Location: Centro de Tejas
Posts: 54

Bikes: '71 Italvega Nuovo Record, '10 Optima Baron

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked 40 Times in 17 Posts
That bike is in very nice condition. I also pondered treating the tubes on a recent teardown of an Italvega and also decided against it for the same reasons. I'm never going to get it wet and it hasn't started to rust in fifty years so why goop it up now? One special case might be if a person lives directly on the coast and the bike gets exposed to a lot of salty humidity. In addition to treating the frame I'd probably store the original fasteners and anything that might rust and use stainless steel while the bike is actively being ridden.
Cratecruncher is offline  
Likes For Cratecruncher:
Old 02-26-22, 09:34 PM
  #4  
Fredo76
The Wheezing Geezer
 
Fredo76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: EspaŮola, NM
Posts: 402

Bikes: 1976 Fredo Speciale, Jamis Citizen 1, Ellis-Briggs FAVORI, Rivendell Clem Smith Jr.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 164 Post(s)
Liked 317 Times in 160 Posts
I'd never seen the pin technique. Interesting!
Fredo76 is offline  
Likes For Fredo76:
Old 02-26-22, 10:19 PM
  #5  
Drillium Dude 
Gone riding
 
Drillium Dude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 11,803
Mentioned: 247 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2301 Post(s)
Liked 3,612 Times in 1,297 Posts
Originally Posted by Fredo76 View Post

I'd never seen the pin technique. Interesting!
If you look closely you'll see they're actually nails.

Pretty common bitd. Richard Sachs uses the pinned joints method to this day.

DD
__________________
My Flickr pics: https://www.flickr.com/photos/30331021@N08/

Drillium Dude is offline  
Likes For Drillium Dude:
Old 02-27-22, 10:38 AM
  #6  
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 17,813
Mentioned: 118 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2540 Post(s)
Liked 1,482 Times in 1,112 Posts
Originally Posted by Drillium Dude View Post
If you look closely you'll see they're actually nails.

Pretty common bitd. Richard Sachs uses the pinned joints method to this day.

DD
more of a porcupine scheme
repechage is offline  
Likes For repechage:
Old 02-27-22, 11:27 AM
  #7  
SJX426 
Senior Member
 
SJX426's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fredericksburg, Va
Posts: 8,723

Bikes: '73 Bottecchia Giro d'Italia, '83 Colnago Superissimo, '84 Trek 610, '84 Trek 760, '88 Pinarello Veneto, '88 De Rosa Pro, '89 Pinarello Montello, '94 Burley Duet, 97 Specialized RockHopper, 2010 Langster, Tern Link D8

Mentioned: 63 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1294 Post(s)
Liked 1,345 Times in 735 Posts
Nice older De Rosa!
My '83 Colnago also has pins.
__________________
Bikes don't stand alone. They are two tired.
SJX426 is offline  
Likes For SJX426:
Old 02-27-22, 12:45 PM
  #8  
xiaoman1 
Awaiting Parole
 
xiaoman1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City of Angels
Posts: 4,759

Bikes: A few too many

Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1189 Post(s)
Liked 1,658 Times in 918 Posts
It looks to have been barely ridden...very nice!
Best, Ben
__________________
"STAND UP FOR WHAT IS RIGHT EVEN IF YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE STANDING"
Voice recognition may sometimes create odd spelling and grammatical errors

xiaoman1 is online now  
Likes For xiaoman1:
Old 02-27-22, 07:10 PM
  #9  
tremolo1965
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
tremolo1965's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: PNW - Skagit Valley
Posts: 126

Bikes: 1970 Schwinn Suburban, 1973 Raleigh Sports, 1978 De Rosa

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 76 Times in 16 Posts
Originally Posted by repechage View Post
more of a porcupine scheme
The nails have a square profile. I read elsewhere that Ugo De Rosa didnít normally utilize this method, but rather a fellow frame builder that frequented his shop may have had a hand in some of the mid-late Ď70s construction. His name was Luigi Gillardi. Not too much out there on the web, but he also built frames for ĎLupo Mascheronií and Gios.
tremolo1965 is offline  
Old 04-02-22, 10:11 AM
  #10  
tremolo1965
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
tremolo1965's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: PNW - Skagit Valley
Posts: 126

Bikes: 1970 Schwinn Suburban, 1973 Raleigh Sports, 1978 De Rosa

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 76 Times in 16 Posts
Reassembled My De Rosa



New grade 25 bearings and Lucas NLGI 2 Marine Multi-Purpose grease in the Headset and BB. New FMB Service Course 25mm tubulars. The bike feels great.
tremolo1965 is offline  
Old 04-02-22, 10:21 AM
  #11  
tremolo1965
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
tremolo1965's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: PNW - Skagit Valley
Posts: 126

Bikes: 1970 Schwinn Suburban, 1973 Raleigh Sports, 1978 De Rosa

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 76 Times in 16 Posts
Originally Posted by repechage View Post
more of a porcupine scheme
Hi Repechage, would you be able to share more about this type of construction? Iíve read a few bits on the web, but not much. Before assembling the bike, I looked it over very closely, and in fact there nails at every joint. On the outside of the frame, you can just make out where the
nails were filed down after brazing ((I assume), and again you really have to look, and know where they are, to find them. I canít image them with my phone, especially due to the mica white paint.
tremolo1965 is offline  
Old 04-03-22, 03:07 PM
  #12  
seedsbelize2
Used to be Seedsbelize
 
seedsbelize2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Tixkokob, YucatŠn. Mťxico
Posts: 2,404

Bikes: , 80 Trek 414, 84 Schwinn Letour Luxe,87 Schwinn Prelude, 92 Schwinn Paramount PDG 5

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1180 Post(s)
Liked 574 Times in 360 Posts
Beautiful specimen
seedsbelize2 is offline  
Old 04-03-22, 11:03 PM
  #13  
tremolo1965
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
tremolo1965's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: PNW - Skagit Valley
Posts: 126

Bikes: 1970 Schwinn Suburban, 1973 Raleigh Sports, 1978 De Rosa

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 76 Times in 16 Posts
Originally Posted by seedsbelize2 View Post
Beautiful specimen
Thank you! I think so, too.
tremolo1965 is offline  
Old 04-04-22, 05:29 AM
  #14  
kunsunoke 
spondylitis.org
 
kunsunoke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fleetwood, PA, USA
Posts: 918

Bikes: '90 Bridgestone MB-1; '85 Trek 600; '01 Cinelli Supercorsa; '89 Bridgestone RADAC 3100; '87 Tommasini Super Prestige; '13 Lynskey R2300; '84 Serotta Nova Special

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 96 Post(s)
Liked 40 Times in 29 Posts
Even if the bike wasn't ridden much, it's amazing that the Italian paint held up to that degree. Normally, Itey lacquer is about as brittle as fine porcelain.

It's a shame they couldn't be bothered to learn about Imron.
kunsunoke is offline  
Old 04-04-22, 10:40 PM
  #15  
tremolo1965
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
tremolo1965's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: PNW - Skagit Valley
Posts: 126

Bikes: 1970 Schwinn Suburban, 1973 Raleigh Sports, 1978 De Rosa

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 76 Times in 16 Posts
Originally Posted by kunsunoke View Post
Even if the bike wasn't ridden much, it's amazing that the Italian paint held up to that degree. Normally, Itey lacquer is about as brittle as fine porcelain.

It's a shame they couldn't be bothered to learn about Imron.
Well, itís been ridden a lot, and these pictures donít capture the patina which shows when up close and personal, but itís been looked after. The top tube cable guides needed some love, had some surface rust but thankfully the material is pretty substantial. They cleaned up well and have a clear coat of lacquer / wax on them and we donít keep our bikes out in the garage.

As for the type of lacquer - itís thin, but really I like the way Italian bikes from this time frame age. The chrome on the fork blades was / is not the best. I keep a coat of wax on the paint, and on the chrome.
tremolo1965 is offline  
Likes For tremolo1965:
Old 04-05-22, 03:37 AM
  #16  
Wildwood
Veteran, Pacifist
 
Wildwood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Seattle area
Posts: 12,096

Bikes: Bikes??? Thought this was social media?!?

Mentioned: 264 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3310 Post(s)
Liked 3,096 Times in 1,526 Posts
Really nice ride. Thanks for the detail.

DeRosa owners everywhere appreciate the care given this bike.
We know the ride (on nice tires) is exceptionally crisp.
Please, nothing larger than 25mm.

I would describe mine similarly - ridden well, kept clean, patina up close, tubulars, loved.
Wildwood is offline  
Likes For Wildwood:
Old 04-05-22, 08:08 AM
  #17  
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 17,813
Mentioned: 118 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2540 Post(s)
Liked 1,482 Times in 1,112 Posts
Originally Posted by tremolo1965 View Post
Hi Repechage, would you be able to share more about this type of construction? Iíve read a few bits on the web, but not much. Before assembling the bike, I looked it over very closely, and in fact there nails at every joint. On the outside of the frame, you can just make out where the
nails were filed down after brazing ((I assume), and again you really have to look, and know where they are, to find them. I canít image them with my phone, especially due to the mica white paint.
some tack braze, some use tacks or nails.
the frame or sub assemblies are in either case fixed in position prior to brazing.
for most the scheme is to hold things in position and the frame or sub assembly is brazed free of obstruction.
as an example, if the bottom bracket was held in position with cones, when brazing the torchman cannot get flame in or a visual inside the shell.

way back I considered tacks or pins a production line technique, think Raleigh, but later considered it having an advantage as the flux is only activated once.

Richard Sachs has refined his approach to multiple "pins" actually tapered finish nails he tapers on a belt sander. The multiple pins undoubtedly restrain the parts even more so the components remain where they are wanted to be.
repechage is offline  
Old 06-14-22, 07:36 AM
  #18  
tremolo1965
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
tremolo1965's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: PNW - Skagit Valley
Posts: 126

Bikes: 1970 Schwinn Suburban, 1973 Raleigh Sports, 1978 De Rosa

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 76 Times in 16 Posts
Originally Posted by Wildwood View Post
Really nice ride. Thanks for the detail.

DeRosa owners everywhere appreciate the care given this bike.
We know the ride (on nice tires) is exceptionally crisp.
Please, nothing larger than 25mm.

I would describe mine similarly - ridden well, kept clean, patina up close, tubulars, loved.
Wildwood,

Thank you for the kind words. I agree on the tire size Ė I am really enjoying these FMBs Ė the actual width is 24mm. I wouldnít want to go wider with this bike. BTW Ė Iíve seen photos of your blue De Rosa and it is a lovely machine!

Chris
tremolo1965 is offline  
Old 06-14-22, 07:40 AM
  #19  
tremolo1965
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
tremolo1965's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: PNW - Skagit Valley
Posts: 126

Bikes: 1970 Schwinn Suburban, 1973 Raleigh Sports, 1978 De Rosa

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 76 Times in 16 Posts
Originally Posted by repechage View Post
some tack braze, some use tacks or nails.
the frame or sub assemblies are in either case fixed in position prior to brazing.
for most the scheme is to hold things in position and the frame or sub assembly is brazed free of obstruction.
as an example, if the bottom bracket was held in position with cones, when brazing the torchman cannot get flame in or a visual inside the shell.

way back I considered tacks or pins a production line technique, think Raleigh, but later considered it having an advantage as the flux is only activated once.

Richard Sachs has refined his approach to multiple "pins" actually tapered finish nails he tapers on a belt sander. The multiple pins undoubtedly restrain the parts even more so the components remain where they are wanted to be.
Repechage,

Thank you for the thoughtful response to my question, and I also apologize for this late response on my part.

The construction of these frames really was (and is) a form of industrial art, and art history.

Speaking of history Ė I'm interested learning about the amateur racing culture in (especially) Italy during the 20th century. There were so many independent frame builders, and they had to be building for a hungry market, yet I havenít been able to find very much information about amateur cycling culture, and the way in which the majority of these bicycles were used.

I wonder whether you or perhaps some other folks have any information, or can point me to some source material. I imagine a lot of people would be interested.

Chris
tremolo1965 is offline  
Old 06-14-22, 08:48 AM
  #20  
steelbikeguy
Senior Member
 
steelbikeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Peoria, IL
Posts: 3,543
Mentioned: 74 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1369 Post(s)
Liked 1,948 Times in 956 Posts
Originally Posted by tremolo1965 View Post
Hi Repechage, would you be able to share more about this type of construction? Iíve read a few bits on the web, but not much. Before assembling the bike, I looked it over very closely, and in fact there nails at every joint. On the outside of the frame, you can just make out where the
nails were filed down after brazing ((I assume), and again you really have to look, and know where they are, to find them. I canít image them with my phone, especially due to the mica white paint.
As far as Richard Sachs's technique, there was an article in the June 1990 issue of Bicycle Guide titled "The Art of the Framebuilder", which has a photo and some text describing Mr. Sachs method of using a nail to pin tubes and lugs prior to brazing.....





boy, Bicycle Guide really did put out a great magazine!

Steve in Peoria
steelbikeguy is offline  
Likes For steelbikeguy:
Old 06-14-22, 11:22 AM
  #21  
SJX426 
Senior Member
 
SJX426's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fredericksburg, Va
Posts: 8,723

Bikes: '73 Bottecchia Giro d'Italia, '83 Colnago Superissimo, '84 Trek 610, '84 Trek 760, '88 Pinarello Veneto, '88 De Rosa Pro, '89 Pinarello Montello, '94 Burley Duet, 97 Specialized RockHopper, 2010 Langster, Tern Link D8

Mentioned: 63 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1294 Post(s)
Liked 1,345 Times in 735 Posts
@tremolo1965 - You may find Dave Moultons frame building articles of interest. This one speaks of pins, fixtures, brazing and more.
Dave Moulton's Blog - Dave Moulton's Bike Blog (squarespace.com)

Scroll down to "Framebuilding FAQs"

His comment about starting with a known misaligned frame and finishing the brazing with alignment is interesting. He knew what would move and how much while he was doing the brazing resulting in a nearly straight frame. I don't believe he used pins.
__________________
Bikes don't stand alone. They are two tired.

Last edited by SJX426; 06-14-22 at 11:26 AM.
SJX426 is offline  
Likes For SJX426:
Old 06-14-22, 01:38 PM
  #22  
gugie 
Bike Butcher of Portland
 
gugie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 10,675

Bikes: It's complicated.

Mentioned: 1177 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4122 Post(s)
Liked 3,673 Times in 1,619 Posts
Originally Posted by Fredo76 View Post
I'd never seen the pin technique. Interesting!
It's fairly common practice for many framebuilders. I've used it myself.


Dropout and seatstay replacement
__________________
If someone tells you that you have enough bicycles and you don't need any more, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
gugie is offline  
Likes For gugie:
Old 06-14-22, 05:03 PM
  #23  
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 17,813
Mentioned: 118 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2540 Post(s)
Liked 1,482 Times in 1,112 Posts
Originally Posted by tremolo1965 View Post
Repechage,

Thank you for the thoughtful response to my question, and I also apologize for this late response on my part.

The construction of these frames really was (and is) a form of industrial art, and art history.

Speaking of history Ė I'm interested learning about the amateur racing culture in (especially) Italy during the 20th century. There were so many independent frame builders, and they had to be building for a hungry market, yet I havenít been able to find very much information about amateur cycling culture, and the way in which the majority of these bicycles were used.

I wonder whether you or perhaps some other folks have any information, or can point me to some source material. I imagine a lot of people would be interested.

Chris
A book could be written, but one needs to read and speak Italian.
repechage is offline  
Old 06-15-22, 10:13 AM
  #24  
tremolo1965
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
tremolo1965's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: PNW - Skagit Valley
Posts: 126

Bikes: 1970 Schwinn Suburban, 1973 Raleigh Sports, 1978 De Rosa

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 76 Times in 16 Posts
Originally Posted by repechage View Post
A book could be written, but one needs to read and speak Italian.
Definitely, and yes that would surely help.
tremolo1965 is offline  
Old 06-15-22, 10:22 AM
  #25  
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 17,813
Mentioned: 118 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2540 Post(s)
Liked 1,482 Times in 1,112 Posts
Originally Posted by steelbikeguy View Post
As far as Richard Sachs's technique, there was an article in the June 1990 issue of Bicycle Guide titled "The Art of the Framebuilder", which has a photo and some text describing Mr. Sachs method of using a nail to pin tubes and lugs prior to brazing.....





boy, Bicycle Guide really did put out a great magazine!

Steve in Peoria
That was a while ago, if you look at his more recent image streams, the quantity of pins has increased.
From my observation, he has refined what he does over time to control things as much as possible.
repechage is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.