dedhed

I like RJ because he's more of that DIY backyard type guy. Like hey, you can buy this expensive tool, or make this, or here's a work around using stuff you probably own, as well as lets repair this rather than throw away and replace.

swampyankee2

It's not as easy as just replacing the FFS with standard crankset is it? To make the FFS system work isnt the rear cassette fixed to the hub and not freewheel?

Glennfordx4

The Freewheel comes off like any other FW and you can replace it with a 5 or 6spd FW, any one piece crank will fit but you need a BB to match, Schwinn used their own threading on their cranks, Don't know why everybody is acting like it is some major problem getting rid of it. Everybody has to start somewhere when tinkering with bikes and these old Schwinns aren't that bad of a place to start with. I get that it's not full 531 framed 10spd but if you are a guy that likes those bikes only then maybe don't come in telling people that these old Schwinns are all boat anchors just because you don't like them ( Bike Snobs ). There are a lot of People on here Who Do like these old Schwinns.

Glenn

3speedslow

Amen!

dedhed

Freewheel and cassette are 2 different things and are not interchangeable terms or items.

FFS freewheel not cassette, mounts on a standard freewheel hub, but uses a freewheel, that as a safety feature, lets the cogs move individually if the considerable friction holding them is overcome.
While you can use a FFS freewheel with a non FFS crank it's better to swap out a standard freewheel if changing the crank.

dedhed

Help with and opinions about Shimano Front Freewheel System

Vintage Schwinn

Here are perhaps a few things that folks might be interested in knowing about if considering DIY construction of a TOURIST STYLE collegiate/suburban type bicycle:

If you got the time, the beer, and any old electroforged Schwinn (27" - 630mm wheel) or ( 597mm wheeled 26 x 1 3/8 ..37-597 ) frame, you can assemble such an ancient Schwinn from a parts frame missing the wheels and chain & seat, etc, with almost whatever wheelset that you find a Kent GMC Denali, Kent ugly green colored $110 Roadtech from a decade ago, or from one of those Target/Wallyworld pacificCycleschwinn Admiral, Gateway, Wayfarer or whatever the heck name they did use. These are all relatively decent 622mm (700C) wheels with a 7 speed freewheel. Now, their 7 speed freewheel isn't what you'd call great, but if given proper lubrication it will last at least several thousand miles or ten years. Don't laugh as those 622mm(700C) wheels are the best components on those Target/wallyworld bikes. Guess what, those 700C wheels will fit the ancient heavy "lightweight" Chicago electroforged Schwinns nicely, and provided that you have the 27 wheel's L.S. 2.4 WEINMANNs than you are good to go because the 27" 630mm bike's brake caliper WILL EASILY accomodate these 700C(622mm) wheels.
You see main DIFFERENCE among these ancient electroforged heavy "lightweight" Schwinns IS THAT THE 26"(597mm) wheeled bikes(Collegiate/Breeze/speedster/racer/traveler/CO-ED,....etc) do employ the longer reach L.S. 2.8 WEINMANNs , also known as WEINMANN 810. (exactly the same, '68 and earlier will be the 810 and '69 onward will be L.S. 2.8 on the twenty six 597mm lightweights...)
The Twenty-Seven(630mm) lightweights(Suburban, Varsity.....) use the L.S. 2.4 Weinmanns , well thats what they are stamped and called from 1969 onward, and '68 and earlier Twenty-Seven(630mm) Schwinns use exactly the same but they are stamped as Weinmann 7xx.........I can't recall the number, but they are exactly the same as the L.S. 2.4................Schwinn just started having them identified with their own internal Schwinn identifying code beginning in the 1969 model year.
NOW WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO KNOW THAT THE 26(597mm) and 27(630mm) Schwinns have DIFFERENT LENGTH 'reach' Calipers ???
Well because you can essentially do a Dumpster Dive DIY build on any old electroforged Chicago Schwinn.
There are a ton of old bicycles that are perhaps the wrong frame size for your particular height, --OR-- you've got decent condition ancient wheelset (590mm) or (630mm) or something recent from wallyworld-tarjay special (622mm-700C)..........well guess what......THEY WILL ALL FIT ON TO WHATEVER heavy ancient "lightweight" electroforged Chicago SCHWINN frame, WITH THE PROPER CORRESPONDING L.S. 2.4 or L.S. 2.8 WEINMANN calipers.
Certainly, you could employ newer and perhaps better, more modern caliper replacements, but at the speeds that you'll be riding such a bike, it will not matter at all.
Just knowing that the L.S. 2.8 (810 model) WEINMANNs will be what is needed IF YOU TRANSPLANT the common 590mm 26 x 1 3/8 wheels from Some Other Brand's Sixties, Seventies,Early eighties era 10 speed/5 speed. THERE WERE A HECKUVA LOT OF dept store ten speeds that came with RIGIDA Superchromix 590mm 26 x 1 3/8 37-590 chrome steel wheels, that although not particularly desireable on any "road bike", these old steel RIGIDA Superchromix 590mm 26 x 1 3/8 wheels are still rugged and durable and very dependable for slow-ride, take it easy riding (anything under 19mph). The main drawback to chrome steel wheels are that they do not brake (STOP) as quickly as an aluminum wheel, but if you're travelling less than about 19 mph in dry conditions, it will not really matter at all, as you'll find braking to be more than adequate. Steel wheels do take more abuse without breaking (cracking, etc) than lighter aluminum wheels can typically withstand, so if you're a pothole pounder because your streets needed repaving twenty years ago, then steel wheels are an asset IF YOU AREN'T GOING VERY FAST (under 19mph) AND NOT IN THE RAIN/wet conditions.

Hey, there are plenty of old bikes, ten speeds, 5 speeds, etc that may not have been made in the Windy City by SCHWINN that aren't nearly the quality of a Schwinn but still have certain items, like wheelsets, seats, Pletscher rack, pedals, even perhaps their Ashtabula ONE PIECE Crank assembly or just the front chainwheel that you can really make use of in a DIY "dumpster" build. Sure, there are a few old Columbia, Murray, and maybe one old Ross and perhaps maybe one JC Higgins or Western Flyer bike that is decent enough as is, but more often than not, you'll find that time hasn't been kind to their frames, which in comparison to Schwinns, were often poorly built, particulary near the rear drop out area where the frame tubes are often simply mashed crimped with a rudimentary spot weld. AMF bikes of the sixties and seventies were among the worst, but all of the BMA-6 (label affixed to 1971 and later seventies bikes from the inferior major American manufacturers )....all of the BMA-6 manufacturers' bicycle quality sagged somewhat farther as 1970's era inflation and Japanese/Korean no-name imports flooded the US market, as severe cost cutting measures in an effort to maintain margins and maintain/mkt share, in hindsight did them more harm than good, as consumers realized Kmart bicycles made wherever, were at least as good, and were essentially the same exact type bicycles just produced overseas in Asian factories with lower cost labor, though those Asian factories could still better join and weld the drop outs area of the frame etc, as labor cost was lower, thus producing a better dept store bike. Once those Asian factories began to use popular paint colors, it was nearly game over for the US makers, as there was no reason not to choose the imported Kmart type bike as it now looked as good, was built better, and it's cost was slightly less.
Now certainly, most of the old sixties and seventies era all-so-ran makes' bicycles are gonna be a mixture of good and perhaps really bad. Often their frames were sometimes really awful.......AMF, John Deere, but the wheels, seats, one piece cranks, perhaps the handlebars, stem, fenders, handlebar grips, pedals etc, are good enough. You can comingle a DIY "dumpster build" with good parts from these 'junky makes' and a quality ancient Schwinn frame.
The SCHWINN FRAME DOES NOT CARE where the wheels or the one piece ashtabula crank came from (or the chainwheel for the 1 piece crank came from).
The Schwinn Frame DOES NOT CARE if you have a 5 speed freewheel, a 6 speed freewheel, or a 7 speed freewheel. IT IS EASY ENOUGH WITH THE ELECTROFORGED Schwinn STEEL FRAME TO SLIGHTLY SPREAD THE REAR IF NECESSARY TO ACCOMODATE A LATER WHEELSET WITH A GREATER WIDTH WITHIN REASON.
Though the ONE PIECE CRANK Ashtabula crank on Schwinn is 28tpi, you can easily swap the CHAINRING from any one piece crank. You can also swap out most all differing makes' One Piece Crank set-ups into a SCHWINN frame, as the physical size of the ONE PIECE bottom bracket(Hanger Set) is not any different than most others......................... You'd be smart to keep the SCHWINN crank, cups, bearings, etc since the original Schwinn cups and bearings were made from better quality materials than anyone else ever employed. That does not mean that, other makes' bottom bracket components were junk, because they certainly were excellent too, and would be oustanding also IF the components are like New or new without too much wear. YOUR BICYCLE DOES NOT CARE what one piece crank or whether it has 24tpi or 28 tpi or whether it has #64 caged bearings or # 66 caged bearings..................IT DON'T MATTER ONE BIT, JUST AS LONG AS THE ENTIRE ASSEMBLY AS YOU INSTALL IT FITS TOGETHER . Whatever you employ in there, NOTHING IS REALLY ANY BETTER THAN ANYTHING ELSE, IF THE BEARINGS ARE IN GREAT SHAPE & RACES TOO, AND EVERYTHING HAS BEEN CLEANED UP AND THEN RE-INSTALLED AFTER BEING LIBERALLY WELL GREASED WITH WATERPROOF SYNTHETIC automotive "GREEN GREASE". Heck, fresh military spec Grease from world war II era, would be more than adequate but you will need to regrease(clean out & re-grease) much more often(probably every 6 months) for compareable results to "GREEN" waterproof synthetic grease(which can go probably more than 5 years. with same results).

Okay, so you know that you can comingle and build something decent from an assortment of trashpile collected dumpster divings, and co-op low cost finds.
Use your knowledge to build something that RIDES NICE, IS DEPENDABLE, FITS YOU, and LOOKS GOOD too.
Nobody is gonna care, from where or from what bicycles that your parts were sourced. There were plenty of unloved, low-life bicycles that do have some quality parts which when mated to a solid- decent quality frame such as an ancient electroforged chicago SCHWINN frame, will make you a great GENERAL PURPOSE bicycle.
Certainly, if you have found an old SCHWINN SUBURBAN 5 speed from (1970 -1976) or an old SCHWINN COLLEGIATE 5 speed from (1970 - 1977), you need not do anything, as everything factory stock on those bicycles is great enough that you cannot practically improve upon it. Okay, some of you wise guys will say, oh yeah, well what about installing light weight aluminum wheels, or maybe pointing out that they prefer the thumb shifter seen only on the 1974 Suburban 5 speed, over the Schwinn STIK stem lever in all other years..... I am saying that from a great General Purpose bicycle standpoint, you can't improve upon the reliablity/durability/ride quality/overall gear range, that was offered from the factory on those 1970 - 1977 models! Sure, some folks will say perhaps that they prefer aftermkt pedals, or a Suntour rear derailleur, or an aftmkt seat, but the factory equipment was & is superb quality on those '70-'77 particular bikes.

Now for example, lets say that you've got an ancient late sixties or seventies era Varsity gathering dust in your garage, or your parents or grandparents' garage, and you are seeking a general purpose Upright TOURIST style bicycle to ride.
You don't need the 10 gears. You DO WANT TO KEEP THE 1 piece ASHTABULA Crank!
Now with the 14-28 freewheel that the Varsity/Continental & 10 speed Suburban has (28-24-20-16-14 model F), YOU SHOULD GO WITH a single aftmkt 42 TEETH front chainwheel IF YOU ARE GONNA CONVERT IT TO A FIVE SPEED.
Why 42 teeth front chainwheel? BECAUSE IT WILL GIVE YOU A DECENT ENOUGH (41 GEAR) to (81 GEAR) RANGE!
You are gonna need something acceptable enough for hill climbing more so than you'd need top end speed capability.
That 42 gives a relatively good compromise when using the 14-28 factory equipment freewheel on the ten speeds.......changed over to Five.
Perhaps a better choice for some might be to find an old SUNTOUR freewheel with a 34 low gear cog, or the shimano built MODEL J with 32 cog from 5 speed suburban and '70 -'77 collegiate 5 speed, or some other aftmkt five, six, or seven speed freewheel with 32 or so low gear cog.....then simply use the 46 teeth chainwheel.
You could also simply go with the SMALL 39 t front chainwheel of the tenspeed (as you know late sixties & seventies Varsities etc had 39 small/52 BIG up front).
That would Give you (38 GEAR) low gear from the single small 39T front BUT THAT WOULD LIMIT Your high end gear range to a (75 GEAR).
---------so you can see that when converting a 10 speed with the 14-28 freewheel, it is my belief that you may prefer the 42 FRONT and 28 rear cog (41 GEAR) and 42 FRONT and 14 rear (81 GEAR) over just using the existing 39T small front. Yes, you'd get a better (38 GEAR) hill gear versus (41 GEAR) BUT YOU MAY FIND THAT THE (75 GEAR) top end isn't enough for you, compared to the (81 GEAR) that the 42 T front would give you.
That is simply one suggestion of how you could employ a 42 T front with the stock 14-28 freewheel gearing of a Varsity etc, transforming it into a useful 5 speed.
THE MOST IMPORTANT CONSIDERATION IS YOU, AND WHAT MIGHT BE MOST BENEFICIAL TO YOU, YOUR RIDING STYLE, AND WHERE (The Locations) THAT YOU RIDE YOUR BICYCLE. You should at least be aware that, you can easily change gearing slightly to suit you best, without spending much money.......just from dumpster/co-op/parts bikes, etc IF YOU KNOW WHAT TO LOOK FOR, and if you can count the fingers on your hands, and you graduated to third grade from second grade, you certainly will have no problem counting the number of teeth on freewheel cog, or an Ashtabula type one piece crank's front chainwheel. Heck, there are so many seventies era freewheels that are still in great shape, and AshtabulaOnepiece chainwheels from the last 85 years will fit any one piece crank. Yeah, the 1/8, 3/32 differences are insignificant, as it is a difference of 1/32 as 1/8 equals 4/32...... Remember that the skip tooth variety chainwheels are effectively double the number of visible teeth.......so that a skiptooth 26 equates to actual 52, and a skiptooth 23 equates to 46T front, and so on, etc...

Build it/comingle it if you find yourself with for example something that you've got for free that is the wrong size frame, or a crappy built frame, or from one of those one size fits everybody but you and 43% other folks, bikes that pacific cycle & kent supply to wallyworld & target.......(like admiral/gateway/wayfarer etc that come only in 16 or 17 for women step throughs and 18 for men diamond frame models)........you can transplant the wheelset from such a bike on to a quality old Schwinn frame as they came typically in 17, 19, and 21 inch frame sizes for step through women's models in the early seventies and typically in 18, 20, 22, and 24 inch frame sizes for men diamond frames. (there were some really huge 25 and 26 inch mens diamond frames avail in the Varsit/Cont circa '74-'77)
THERE ARE A FEW THINGS TO REMEMBER about ancient Schwinn frames such as 1965 and earlier versus 1966 and later..........okay the '65 and earlier require ordinary 22.2mm diameter stem for the factory front fork.......and the 1966 and later Chicago Schwinns require a 21.1mm diameter stem for their factory equipment front fork. WHEN YOU CHANGE & SWAP THINGS AROUND, YOU GOTTA REMEMBER THIS. You gotta use the 21.1mm stem or old ordinary 22.2 stem diameter THAT FITS THE PARTICULAR FORK YOU'RE EMPLOYING. Don't worry, millions of both types were made. There is much more in the aftmkt today for the old 22.2 stem diameter that most all manufacturers did use. Schwinn engineers made their steerers the strongest in the industry back in 1966, which necessitated the 21.1mm diameter stem since the wall thickness of the tubing was now thicker. No joke about Schwinn engineering, building them almost like a Sherman tank , perhaps they had someone there at Schwinn with ESP, to know that a nut named Evel would soon come on the scene and encourage youngsters to try things with their bicycles that had never been imagined before.
You'll also notice that the Collegiate/Breeze step through bicycles from 1966 onward have a curved, lower step over, than the 1965 and earlier parallel bar step through Collegiate/Co-Ed/Traveler does.

There are obviously so many insignificant differences such as Color offerings, seat designs, pedal designs, whether fenders were chromed or painted body color on these other ancient models from the sixties. Sure, a few hardcore Schwinn nuts will go crazy about certain color offerings or love those uncomfortable hard two-tone color S seats, and the old waffle pedals without any reflectors, and other minutia nonsense that only an obsessive restorer/collector would care about. Truth is that nobody is collecting the Collegiate/Suburbans/Varsities/Continentals other than perhaps the early sixties Continentals & Varsities before they had 10 speeds & 27 wheels.
The Schwinn collectors can tell you most everything about the 1962 five speed Corvette but they no almost nothing about any Varsity/Contintental/Collegiate/Suburban/ or anything else equipped with a derailleur except perhaps Sting-Ray & Krate childrens bikes of the sixties and early seventies.

Some folks will say, oh well why even bother to build some type of mongrel mutt from a few trashpile bikes and a clean old Schwinn frame that fits you, but you might have fun assembling such a bike, and it will be uniquely yours. You need not spend much money doing so. Yeah, from a flip standpoint it isn't gonna warrant your time to do so unless you already have a Fred Sanford type junkyard with hundreds of old parts bikes.........if that is the case, you probably have a large rural acreage with barns full of stuff that the American Picker dudes & dudette from Iowa would love, or you have neighbors that have resorted to contacting the city about Mr. Smith who has some 421 bicycles piled up, rusting in his backyard.
Anyway don't become a horder........as a happy wife, makes for a happy life !
Have fun. Riding bicycles is way more fun than tinkering and building them, but that can also be really fun to do.
If it makes you happy and you have fun with it, don't worry about the perceived or realistic perception that it might be a basic ordinary bicycle that has no real marketplace value because it looks like something that discerning "cyclists" would not be seen riding today.

Jeff Wills

You're in luck. I took some photos and started a new thread today:
Suburban Cowboy - Bike Forums
I'm just starting on it. I'm going to clean it up and ride it. For a 50-year-old bike it's in fine shape.

Jeff Wills

As others pointed out, the FFS "freewheel" is interchangeable with conventional 5- or 6-speed freewheels. The hub is identical to other Schwinn non-FFS bikes. Removing the FFS "freewheel" requires an older style Shimano freewheel tool which has not been made since the '70's.

The crank is interchangeable with other Schwinn cranks. The crank and chainrings are unique to the FFS system so you're better off exchanging everything.

It's all doable. Not easy or cheap, but possible.

Chuck M 

If you were local to me, I would give you the step through Suburban 5 speed I have hanging in storage to go with the one you are looking at. As far as you wanting it for $50, I think you are correct in guessing you could get it cheaper. And if you want it for a keeper not a flip then do what makes you happy. Don't take from the posters that don't care for Suburbans that there is no love for them, it is just Suburbans aren't their cup of tea.

swampyankee2

You got me thinking, there are a couple of Contis for sale cheap and if I were to buy one for parts I could make a slightly lighter and useful cruiser bike from it and a worthy Suburban.
thoughts for down the road, perhaps next winter as spring is coming and with it, the chores and home projects. Not to mention getting my otherb2 projects ready to ride this season

dedhed

Honestly if everything is working there is no reason not to keep the FFS stuff and it's kind of a unique, "check this out" talking point. Having serviced the ratchet mechanism on one it really isn't difficult. The positron RD and shifters, which it appears to also have, isn't a big deal either until the solid inner cable breaks and finding/paying the price becomes an issue. Even that can be replaced with any cheap derailleur and shifter instead.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/12516159637...SABEgJCn_D_BwE