Galvanized v Stainless cables
 

Just curious, when did galvanized cables fall out of favor? I’m doing a restoration on a mid-60’s Italian bike and can only salvage one original derailleur and one brake. I’m not having luck locating galvanized cables.

Galvanized cables were never IN fashion. They were all that there was. With stainless around and available for only pennies more why would you even consider using anything else?

I mean, WTF?

OK. .. I know WTF. I just don't understand where that level of (deleted) comes from

Do you have or are you going with galvanized spokes?
Jagwire Basics Brake Cable (Galvanized) (Double-Ended) (Road & Mountain) (1.6mm) (2000mm) - Performance Bicycle (performancebike.com)

Was looking for Huret compatible cables in stainless, nothin'.

I replace galvanized cables and spokes on my vintage restorations with stainless steel. The only exception so far has been derailleur cables for 1970's Simplex plastic lever shifters, the hole that accepts the cable end is extremely small so the only cables I have found to fit are the old galvanized type.

Ouch. Probably reduced to finding NOS at the LBS; I got the last one at my local shop. Filing down a Campimano-style cable end to fit might work, but would you trust it?

It's funny, isn't it? There are folks who swear stainless screws are weaker than chromoly or other alloy steel, but you never hear about any such comparable thing for spokes or cables.

Makes me wonder if the alloy, the wire-drawing process, or both, make these concerns inapplicable for these applications. Like, is it some sort of Inconel type thing that they're made of or what? The cables do appear heat-treated at the very least. If you braze on them and get them red hot, they lose a lot of their springiness. That's why I use plain galvanized cables for custom ends and the like. I can use a soldering iron and get the solder to stick, which doesn't really happen with a stainless cable and any flux I've tried, until a much higher temperature.

I setup a Raleigh Record with Huret shifters and it was simple, hit the shimano type end once or twice with a hammer then file it to fit. Don't overwork the end they are soft, one hit should flatten it.

Wow... You must be doing a real honest-a-goodness "RESTORATION".

As to the OP I think it must have been prior to the mid 70's. Unless you were looking at cheap department store bikes of less than 100 USD. I do remember one of the selling points of the $55.00 USD Western Auto "Western Flyer 10 Speed" was Stainless Steel Cables in 1968.

Galvanized shifter and brake cables are still available. These are from Jagwire:

Shifter Cable Hyper galvanized Slick Shimano/SRAM 1.1x2300

FWIW, I have been given to understand that these actually perform better (i.e. more smoothly) with vintage non-lined housing, so I would consider them for such an application.

I'm not sure that's not having luck. Maybe it's providence looking out for you(r bike).

I'm still in semi-mourning over the dearth of teflon-coated cables. They were so "neat."

The only galvanized cables I've been exposed to are the bulk ones that you may get if you simply tell the shop "I need a cable." They seemed rough to the touch, but it could have been the psychological effect of not seeing shiny smooth cables. I don't know. I like shiny cables, and I like teflon-coated over those. REI used to have them and stopped carrying them a while ago.

All that said, I'm not sure I ever had a failure, or a problem due to cable failure or sticking. I've never had the opportunity to ride a bike with cables so crappy they didn't work. I do remember friends with Sting-Rays that were left outside for months on end, and their cables were always fouled up.

Hit a Shimano one with a hammer and file into a lollipop.

It’s as accurate and conservative restoration. Won’t get ridden much, its really a wall hanger. Thx for the tips. There’s a couple threads on it, search the Forum for “The Thrift Store Italian”.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6926e2873.jpeg

archaic they are !

NOS are becoming pricey

IIRC, Shimano's entry level cable/housing kits (supplied with RevoShift twisty-grip shifters and SunRace SLM10 friction shifters) use galvanized cables with sealed and greased cable housings. They're cheap and remarkably durable.

The pre-greased cable housings, with rubbery O-ring type seals, keep the cables in decent shape for years. The parts of the cables exposed to air will get fuzzy and gritty feeling after a year or two, but where the cables actually contact the housings they stay reasonably slick pretty much forever. The tricky bit is where the exposed galvanized cable rubs against unlubricated surfaces -- cable guides under the bottom bracket, on the chainstays, etc. To minimize friction and wear I use plastic shafts from cotton swabs, which serve the same purpose as cable liner.

I've paid about $10 for an entire set of RevoShift twisties and SunRace SLM10 thumbies, including cables/housings, but that was back around 2015-2017, waaay pre-pandemic and shipping crisis prices. Nowadays I'd expect to pay around $20 for the same thing, still not too bad.

If you prefer more period correct housings, you can just use the cables and save the cheap, skinny black housings for another project. While those cheap Shimano housings look cheap, they're functional. I can't feel any difference in braking or shifting between those entry level housings and the mid-grade Shimano and Jagwire housings I've used on other bikes.

I don't find anything particularly wrong with galvanized cables or spokes. I used to build wheels with only Robergel double butted galvanized spokes. At the time, late '70's, stainless spokes were seen as not as durable. But there are downsides to galvanized steel, It will rust given enough incentive and the surface turns a dull grey.

With shifter cables, they should be greased when running through standard steel housing like was the being used when [MENTION=541401]ejw[/MENTION] bike was made. Between the grease and the galvanizing these cables always worked well. But we are talking about quality cable and the bike at least put in a garage or shed when not used.

For an upgrade, I think this option from Jagwire is a good one with the strength of steel and the slick outer surface. If you don't mind greasing the cable, it would be an improvement over the plain galvanized cable that was available at the time that many of our bikes were built.

Jagwire Slick galvanized shift cable

I have switched to stainless spokes, double butted still. I think of that as an esthetic decision. And it is tough to find Robergel double butted spokes nowadays.

Often, more expensive means it must be better, however, with cable, I don't know if galvanized cable, like from Jagwire above is inferior, it may even be better than stainless. Some of my homework indicates that it is. And no one will be impressed by you shiny cable like they will with your shiny spokes.

If you want cheap galvanized cables, and unlined housing, go to your local department store, and look for the cable/housing sets. $5, and they usually have several different cable end types.

A lot of winch cables and logging cables are either plain steel or galvanized. The price difference becomes significant when one buys larger sizes of cable.

I'll have to look more at bolts. I've only seen graded bolts (3, 5, & 8, or the equivalent in Metric) in coated steel.,

It may well be that stainless compares favorably with the flex characteristics of cable and spokes.

:foo:

Stainless alloys have been used in knives and kitchen cutlery for quite some time. So the technology should be there for also making hardened fasteners.

Oh man, I have opinions on this! I have both stainless and ordinary carbon steel knives, and much prefer the carbon steel, both for their ability to hold an edge and for their ease of sharpening. The stainless is not near as hard. This is easily verified with a set of hardness testing files. Even a cheap carbon steel knife is better in my experience.

The metallurgical reason is that in order to have enough chromium to make the steel stainless, you have to get the carbon below some level, or the chromium won't go in. And it's not possible to harden the steel very much with these low levels of carbon.

Let’s hear from people who know way more about cables than us - aircraft builders/ mechanics:
mechanicsupport.com: Aircraft Control Cable - Stainless or Galvanized?

Hmmm...

I'll have to do a little more hunting for data.
This seems to indicate that most stainless cables are 304 or 316 stainless with less than 0.1% Carbon

This page gives a comparison of breaking strength of stainless vs galvanized cables, and they are similar. "Bright" steel cables are slightly better. There are several grades of non-stainless cables, IPS, EIPS, EEIPS, and GIPS (Galvanized). I am having troubles finding carbon content data, but it doesn't seem to be too high.

As far as stainless steels there is a class of Martensitic stainless steels that are heat treatable, with 440c being about 1% carbon, and it should be pretty tough for a knife.

This page lists a number of knife making steels with AUS-10 also a high quality reasonably corrosion resistant steel from Japan

But, alas, for some reason the bolts and cables like to use the 304 and 316 grade stainless steels. But, they should be plenty strong and plenty wear resistant for bicycles.

Some of us enjoy the challenge of restoring a bike to as near period-correct as we can; also the education that comes with the process. I've gotten a bit of an education just following this thread about a restoration: Squashing cable ends with hammers and the lubricant qualities of galvanization are both new to me. I commend the OP's dedication to that beautiful bike.

There are many different ways to enjoy this old bike hobby.
Brent

SS wire has a long history in the marine world where reliability matters (in a very harsh environment - think salt water and many stress cycles) . Like life and death matters. Think any sailboat crossing an ocean. 1960s, SS wire was pretty good. Would have done fine (in the appropriate wind) as bike cable then. Mid '70s, SS bicycle spokes not so much. (The Robergel SS spokes were known to fail. Their far cheaper Sport (IIRC) galvanized spokes built wheels that went long distances.

As for bike screws, etc. I think many of the standard came about based on lesser steels (all those M5 screws). I promise you the run of the mill bike boom bike wasn't using cro-mo fasteners. Decent SS does just fine as a replacement. Cro-mo is overkill.

Edit: Clifford mentioned martensitic stainless steels, then said the strength-wise lesser 316 and 304 SSs are far more common in wire. Yes, Again,the marine world. Martensitic does poorly in contact with the other common marine metals as it is at the other end of the galvanic spectrum. Also 316 and 304 tolerate being bent beyond yield and used in that condition. (Think wire strands being wound to wire and that wire then being bent into an "eye". And if your ship rigging gets bent to a kink in a storm, you'd rather not have if fail like a high strength, low ductility high end cro-moly.

PorkchopBMX also has some galvanized brake cables. They are out there.

Blind test with proper setup by a competent mechanic on identical friction/non-aero systems - most riders can't tell the difference between a stainless or galvanized cable.