City Guy

Hi

Rainy Saturday here and decided to finally service the bottom bracket cup and cone bearings on my 1987 Masi Gran Corsa fitted with a Campagnolo Chorus groupset..

Non-drive side was easily removed, the drive side is frozen solid. Before I apply additional force, can anyone tell me if this part of the bottom bracket is right-right hand threaded OR left-hand threaded.

I have the correct Park Tool box wrench 36 mm across the flats. I will probably secure the wrench with washers and a through-bolt to hold everything together as I might need to use a few hammer taps.

Thanks in advance

Mr. 66

Lefty loosey

merziac

First of all, kudos for doing this right.

That being said, please refrain from using a hammer near the beauty.

Flatten a piece of thinwall pipe to fashion a cheater extension for the sub optimal imo Park tool.

City Guy

Hi

Good idea, I was actually thinking about a pipe extension to increase leverage.

First time working on a Campy bottom bracket, hence my question re: thread orientation. My experience with Shimano and other brands, have the drive side BB left-handed threaded. Looks like a trip tomorrow to get a section of pipe...

Jeff Wills

Given that it's Italian thread (36 x 24) it's probably really really tight. It's been there 40 years, too.

I've loosened fixed cups with a few whacks with a rubber mallet. Try that at your own risk.

Choke 

Just so you know, it's not a Campy vs. Shimano thing, it's the threads of the bottom bracket shell - Italian vs. English. Italian BBs (marked 36x24F) have right hand threads on both sides while English BBs (marked 1.37x24) have left hand threads on the drive side and right hand threads on the non-drive side. Campy and Shimano both make Italian and English threaded bottom brackets.

I probably wouldn't bother removing the cup, I would just clean the inside of it.....unless of course the cup needs to be replaced. It's easy enough to put it all back together with the cup in the frame.

merziac

Still gonna leave mark if you clip the frame...

merziac

Its not just about the cup, it should always come out to inspect and service the threads so it will come out when it has to down the road.

Its not that hard to do it right.

merziac

Make sure you still also use the bolt and washers too. And make the pipe longer than you think it needs to be, I had one recently that I had to get out a 5 foot one to crack it loose, was glad I had it. good times.

City Guy

Update-Joy of working on vintage bikes...

I really wanted to get this done last eve. Earlier in the day I serviced the headset bearings and wanted to ride my classic today, Sunday after the rain moved through last night. Using surprising amount of ingenuity (must have been the coffee), I removed one of the legs from my Park Tool stand to use for leverage. Cup was removed and was able to clean out a shocking amount of CRUD, probably old dried grease mixed with general dirt and grime, and water that made its way in, what a mess. Bearing surfaces were OK as were the caged bearings, which was really surprising considering the amount of crud in the bottom bracket which I believe shows the bottom bracket was not serviced in a very long time, maybe never?

Now on to the next saga, while installing the drive side crank, the bolt snapped, was getting tight but the crank was not all way seated on the square taper. Broken part of bole about 5/16" inside the axel. Probably would be able to be removed using an easy-out, but I don't own a drill press, so will need to find a shop on the San Francisco peninsula that would be able to remove the broken bolt since I don't own a drill press and drilling free-hand probably not a good idea if the drill wandered and damaged the threads.

Any shop recommendations or other ideas greatly appreciated.

One other question comes up, would it make sense to simply replace the cup-and-cone Campy bottom bracket (I have tried to keep the bike mostly original, but not like a replacement bottom bracket would be noticeable) with a sealed square taper cartridge bottom bracket? Any recommendation if this would be a better path? Not sure what size and thread type would be required.

Thanks

repechage

Time to seek professional help,
American Cyclery in the City
Cupertino Bike shop

I am sure there are others.

the notation of the crank not being fully seated... my hunch that is an error in judgement and you totally went gonzo on the fastener torque.

hopefully you did not tear out the threading on the spindle.

Bicycle Odyssey in on the other side of the Golden Gate is having a blow out end of business sale...

merziac

OR, pull the spindle, go to the co-op, find closest match, install that and get it working for now, or go ahead and swap out for cartridge (blasphemer!).

Then remedy the broken bolt at your convenience and reinstall.

A left handed drill bit and patience may solve this with little or no drama if the broken piece isn't stuck bad.

P!N20

Risking being kicked off the forum, I'm a cartridge bottom bracket user - mainly due to being easier to source. I've still got one bike with a cup and cone BB to keep my membership valid.

You'll need an Italian threaded BB with the same length spindle as the one you removed - give or take a millimetre or two - if you're planning on using the same crankset. Most likely ISO square taper.

Steel1

“I removed one of the legs from my Park Tool stand to use for leverage.”

Well I have to admit I let out a nice exclamation reading this sentence. We have all had similar moments I expect, but this was a little out of the ordinary. Thanks for lightening my day :-)

But joking aside, bummer about the bolt. I would buy the replacement spindle and move along (as other person suggested above). Can try to salvage the original when you have free time and less pressure for success.

bikingshearer 

I agree with the "get a replacement" crowd. Phil Wood BBs are good, but spendy (you need the cartridge and the cups and at least on of the tools, each sold separately) and you need to figure out which one you need (length of spindle, symmetrical or asymmetrical, ISO of JIS taper). The big advantabe with Phils are that the cups on both sides are adjustable, so you several millimeters to play with, side-to-side. If you go that route, be sure to use blue loctite (NOT red) on the DS cup (Phil provides some with the cups) and crank it down pretty hard. If you don't, the DS cup will self-loosen within about 10 miles or so (don't ask me how I know). Actually, with any Italian (or French) threaded BB, use blue loctite on the DS cup threads and crank them down pretty hard. This is not a problem with British-threaded DS cups with the left-handed threading.

If you want to turn all of this over to the Pros From Dover to figure out, Missing Link in Berkeley (Shattuck just north of University) also has mechanics who have been around a long tome and speak Vintage. Between them, American Cyclery and Cupertino Bike Shop, first try the one that is closes to you. Move on to another shop if you don't get answers you are comfortable with (but you probably will at any of them).

merziac

Careful now, well into the gray, weedy zone.

My main motivation in advocating for seeing the original through is skill building and thinking outside the box like using the stand leg for a cheater, brilliant.

IMO, there is always a solution if you take the time to wrangle it before you mangle something.

You can usually save it completely or at least get it back together until you source the final solution at which point you still have an original backup, etc and the time after the fact to make it whole again if you choose to.

City Guy

Hi All,

Thank you all very much for the insight and advice. I decided to go all in on this one, Wen to hardware store and bought an easy-out bit, and a couple of new crank bolts. And the whole process to remove the broken bolt from the axel took less time than going to get the easy-out bit. Lucky I guess. Had everything back together and enjoyed a nice afternoon ride, albeit WINDY.

City Guy

Hi
We rode together on one of the Peninsula Vintage Rides, I believe back in November.
Great to know about Missing Link, I'm back working in Berkeley these days, so I'll stop by and check out the shop.

merziac

Great work, love it when this happens.

bikingshearer 

If you're thinking of a big, slow old guy who can't climb for poop on a silver Cinelli, yup, that was me. Thanks for remembering.

Missing Link has a few cool old bikes up in the upper racks in the front room. It has a cool, coop, almost hippie vibe. Good place. I remember when it was located on Lower Sproul Plaza on campus, which goes back to the 1970s. At least one of the mechanics goes back that far - most of the staff do not, but they're good eggs.