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Hills and cog size

Old 03-22-22, 01:58 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by swampyankee2 View Post
I measured across hole centers and it looks like I have the common 116 BCD, 3 arm crankset. It would be nice to simply swap the 52-42 for a 52-38 or something. I just upgraded the derailleurs from the worn out Simplex to a nice set of Huret Challengers and I'd hate to spend yet more money on different derailleurs..
Although as discussed elsewhere, the Dawes frame will do, size-wise, It was a cheap-bike first attempt at fixing up a vintage 10-speed and not in the best shape cosmetically so I'd hate to put good money after bad. I was thinking I could keep it for flatter terrain and buy a slightly more modern, yet vintage bike with cotterless crankset that is more readily upgraded.
50-36 or 48-36 would be great, if you can find it.
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Old 03-22-22, 09:14 PM
  #27  
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bikemig, Bad Lag, and Pastor Bob have the right advice for your hill climbing solution........a freewheel with either a 32 or 34 low gear cog!!

Yes, you'll need a Japanese rear derailleur because the European rear derailleurs could not reliably shift a big low gear cog, back in the day,
which explains why the European bikes typically had freewheels with 28 or 26 as the biggest cog in the late sixties & early seventies.

DID YOU KNOW THAT THE 1970 - 1977 Schwinn Collegiate(5 speed) and the 1970-1976 Schwinn Suburban FIVE SPEED model, as well as the 1971 Schwinn SUPER SPORT 10 speed(and the bike boom era SUPER SPORT models...) have the MODEL J (shimano built) FREEWHEEL 32-26-21-17-14

The late sixties Varsity/Continental and the seventies era Varsity/Continental and the 10 speed SUBURBAN have the french made Model F THAT YOU DON'T WANT because it is only 14-28 with 28-24-20-16-14 (the 1964 thru 1969 Collegiate has this 14-28 Model F also.)


SUNTOUR S pro Compe 5 sp (suggested by Pastor Bob) calculated for your 42 small frontchainring:
rear sprocket...32...24...18...16...14...
GEAR Number.35...47...63...71...81...

Ancient SCHWINN shimano built MODEL J (seventies era 5 speed SUB/Collegiate/SUPER SPORT) calculated for your 42 small frontchainring:
rear sprocket...32...26...21...17...14...
GEAR Number.35...44...54...67...81...


What would the LOW gear number be IF you had 34 teeth cog instead of 32 teeth cog?
from 34 cog with 42 front , the GEAR NUMBER would be 33 (actual calculation before rounding 33.35) versus the 35 (actual 35.4375 before rounding) from the 32cog.


I'm not saying that you should definitely choose to use the ancient SCHWINN model J (shimano built) freewheel, but it is in fact significantly better than the original equipment freewheel on your old Dawes bicycle. Any freewheel made by Shimano , or, made by Maeda Industries (suntour) from the early seventies bike boom would in fact be significantly better than the factory equipment freewheel on that Dawes bike. This does not mean that the oem equipment freewheel on the Dawes is junk, it simply highlights that the Japanese were engineering and building superior components at all price points than anyone else in the industry by the Seventies.

You should be aware of this Extremely SIMPLE Math Calculation to compute gear inch numbers (GEAR NUMBER).
Divide the FRONT Sprocket by the REAR Sprocket = "result"
MULTIPLY the "result" by the INCH wheel diameter = GEAR NUMBER

Okay, YOU WILL USE twenty-seven (27) as INCH wheel diameter for all bicycles with 27"...630mm or 700C...622mm wheels
YOU WILL USE twenty-six (26) as INCH wheel diameter for all bicycles with 26".......597mm, or 590mm. or 584mm, or 571mm, or 559mm wheels

I suggest that you Do Some Calculations of your own On Every Prospective Freewheel that You May Consider.
As you know most all manufacturers did once use these comparative GEAR NUMBER charts in their catalogs, sales literature, and advertisements back in the late sixties and seventies. Though somewhat simplistic in failing to account for minor differences in tire tread height-circumference, IT DOES PROVIDE MEANINGFUL & USEFUL COMPARISONS BETWEEN VERY SIMILAR BICYCLES, AND IT SHOULD NOT BE OVERLOOKED, AS MOST PEOPLE TODAY OFTEN DO!

this site has details on many old freewheels and they may even have them:
https://sscycleworks.com/components/...s-suntour.html


YES, YOU WILL NEED A REAR DERAILLEUR THAT IS MADE BY SHIMANO or MaedaSUNTOUR WHEN YOU GO WITH SOMETHING WITH 32cog or 34cog, as the old european rear derailleurs won't reliably get the job done!

The ancient GT-100 ('70-'73) and GT-120 ('74-'77) shimano built for Schwinn for the 32 cog Suburban5speed & seventies Collegiate WILL DO IT......
Both are nearly bombproof......the GT-100 is all steel, so boat anchor heavy, but the GT-120 has the limit screws in typical Shimano location and lighter than the GT-100 but still somewhat heavy. Disraeli gears site is WRONG on both the GT-100 and GT-120, as both were designed for 32 max cog .....disraeli erroneously says 28 max cog on both the GT-100 and the GT-120. ...........these might not be your first choice for a rear derailleur but they are among the most durable and reliable rear derailleurs ever constructed and they get the job easily done on any 32 cog! You can probably find one for free, as Schwinn made millions of five speed Collegiates & five speed Suburbans during the Seventies.
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Old 03-23-22, 06:33 AM
  #28  
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On the subject of gearing..... I've found this online gearing 'calculator' really handy (note that you can add a second setup with the 'compare' feature).

And 'hills', in RI?? I grew up (mostly) in RI, now live in the Catskills in NY. The flattest route I can access from my front door involves 1500' of climbing! And the grades on many of these appalachian roads & trails.....!
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Old 03-23-22, 06:44 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by ehcoplex View Post
On the subject of gearing..... I've found this online gearing 'calculator' really handy (note that you can add a second setup with the 'compare' feature).

And 'hills', in RI?? I grew up (mostly) in RI, now live in the Catskills in NY. The flattest route I can access from my front door involves 1500' of climbing! And the grades on many of these appalachian roads & trails.....!
Hills are relative. In my area of NYC, I have to ride 6 miles to find a decent pimple of a hill of to work on. In the Catskillls (Helderbergs technically), what locals consider flat are the roads with less-than-lethal grade.
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Old 03-23-22, 06:46 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by ehcoplex View Post
On the subject of gearing..... I've found this online gearing 'calculator' really handy (note that you can add a second setup with the 'compare' feature).

And 'hills', in RI?? I grew up (mostly) in RI, now live in the Catskills in NY. The flattest route I can access from my front door involves 1500' of climbing! And the grades on many of these appalachian roads & trails.....!
Alright, alright now! Everything is relative I know some of those roads in upstat NY. I used to ride in a Motogiro (small vintage motorcycles) in that area and the terrain was challenging, even for a 150cc motorcycle!
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Old 03-23-22, 07:56 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by swampyankee2 View Post
Alright, alright now! Everything is relative I know some of those roads in upstat NY. I used to ride in a Motogiro (small vintage motorcycles) in that area and the terrain was challenging, even for a 150cc motorcycle!
I do miss riding in RI- spend a lot of time riding around Tiverton, Little Compton & Westport when I was in high-school. Mostly spend time on Aquidneck Island when I visit family now, and the real challenge seems to be automobile density/congestion, inattentive/lost tourists, etc!
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Old 03-23-22, 09:12 AM
  #32  
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I've done a fair bit of riding in coastal RI. easy stuff compared to the hills out here near the CT/MA border. Of course, being 15 years older and out of shape doesn't help either.
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Old 03-24-22, 09:39 AM
  #33  
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I use a Deore XT from a mountain bike as my rear derailleur when the large-cog freewheel is installed.

I keep the freewheel, the chain, the derailleur and its shifter cable in a small cardboard box. When I am going to the mountains, I swap them for what's on the bike.

Really, it's quite easy to do. Try it, you'll see.

Enjoy!
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Old 03-25-22, 09:13 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by ehcoplex View Post
On the subject of gearing..... I've found this online gearing 'calculator' really handy (note that you can add a second setup with the 'compare' feature).
Best gear calculator out there! Here’s my ridiculous solution to gearing

And 'hills', in RI?? I grew up (mostly) in RI, now live in the Catskills in NY. The flattest route I can access from my front door involves 1500' of climbing! And the grades on many of these appalachian roads & trails.....!
We in Colorado look down on you guys, literally, and laugh at your “mountains”. The lowest point in my state…3,317 feet…is higher than the highest point in a lot of states. I will say that your hills have attitude where my mountains altitude. Your road planners look at your tree covered hills and say “go thataway!” and bulldoze a straight road up and down whatever lumps are around. Our road planners look at our bare hills and say “no way are we going up that!!

I need my ridiculous gearing in the east because I run out of muscle power. I use it here in the west because I run out of air.
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Old 03-25-22, 10:18 AM
  #35  
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An easy route out west -

Starts at 5200 ft rising to 6200 feet in 4 miles. The air is thin but dry and usually cool but can be down-right hot and dry mid-day.

Another western road ride -

Starts at 6,000 goes up to 8,000 in 20 miles, with lots of ups and down but a relentless upward grade. Usually cool, dry but air is thinning and can be hot mid-summer. A lot of good rides start up at the top.


In all cases, having water is key.

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Old 03-25-22, 11:24 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post

We in Colorado look down on you guys, literally, and laugh at your “mountains”. The lowest point in my state…3,317 feet…is higher than the highest point in a lot of states. I will say that your hills have attitude where my mountains altitude. Your road planners look at your tree covered hills and say “go thataway!” and bulldoze a straight road up and down whatever lumps are around. Our road planners look at our bare hills and say “no way are we going up that!!

I need my ridiculous gearing in the east because I run out of muscle power. I use it here in the west because I run out of air.
Many of the roads around me originated with farm trails (sheep, goat, cow...) well pre-dating motorized transport/DOT specs, etc. Often it ain't so much the overall elevation change as it is the grade. A quarter or half mile climb at 10-13%....ooooof! And the problem is that the descents on so many of the hills on my routes are equally short and steep (usually with a bad/sandy road surface and a hard bend or stop sign at the bottom..) which diminishes the reward of having made the climb! The newer designed roads in the West seem a bit more forgiving to me, in spite of greater elevation changes. But I actually love the challenge of the terrain here. A bucket-list trip is to do some touring in the Pyrenees someday...

& I agree re: "mountains"- I get a laugh when I hear folks around here refer to themselves as 'mountain people' and down-staters as 'flat-landers'. Uh, ever seen the Alps, or the Rockies, or the Sierra Nevadas? The Catskills are hills. Big hills, often steep, and beautiful, but..... hills. ;-)

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Old 03-25-22, 08:34 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by ehcoplex View Post
Many of the roads around me originated with farm trails (sheep, goat, cow...) well pre-dating motorized transport/DOT specs, etc. Often it ain't so much the overall elevation change as it is the grade. A quarter or half mile climb at 10-13%....ooooof! And the problem is that the descents on so many of the hills on my routes are equally short and steep (usually with a bad/sandy road surface and a hard bend or stop sign at the bottom..) which diminishes the reward of having made the climb! The newer designed roads in the West seem a bit more forgiving to me, in spite of greater elevation changes. But I actually love the challenge of the terrain here. A bucket-list trip is to do some touring in the Pyrenees someday...

& I agree re: "mountains"- I get a laugh when I hear folks around here refer to themselves as 'mountain people' and down-staters as 'flat-landers'. Uh, ever seen the Alps, or the Rockies, or the Sierra Nevadas? The Catskills are hills. Big hills, often steep, and beautiful, but..... hills. ;-)
LOL!

Grade and length is everything. I can do the high altitude climbs in my flat lander gearing because it is a uniform grade.

Catskills wouldn't even qualify as foothills around here. But as you say, they have some steep grades, followed by a descent and then another steep grade,...
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Old 03-25-22, 08:44 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by ehcoplex View Post
Many of the roads around me originated with farm trails (sheep, goat, cow...) well pre-dating motorized transport/DOT specs, etc. Often it ain't so much the overall elevation change as it is the grade. A quarter or half mile climb at 10-13%....ooooof!
Same here. It's said that some of the early roads followed the old Indian trails.
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