Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Peugeot BB Headache

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Peugeot BB Headache

Old 03-23-22, 04:00 PM
  #1  
Revracer
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Revracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Eastern PA, USA
Posts: 190

Bikes: 1973 Schwinn World Voyageur | Francesco Moser SL | 1984 Ross Utopian | St. Etienne 531 | 1981 Peugeot PK10 | 2015 Cannondale SuperSix | 2012 Felt F65X

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked 51 Times in 18 Posts
Peugeot BB Headache

So I really wanted to swap cranks and use a VO look alike on my Peugeot PKN. I have never had so much difficulty in opening a BB. First the crank threads stripped on the Stronglight. Then I bought a pulley puller that only destroyed the rings and did nothing to remove the crank. Next shot, I decided to take the BB cup off the left side and see if I could punch the BB shaft out of the crank. That worked, crank off, but then to service the BB, I cannot get the fixed cup off. I understand this is a French bike and both cups are supposed to tighten to the right and loosen to the left. Is there any reason this Peugeot would be different than normal French threads?

Damage to crank rings and tried the BB tool to clamp on fixed cup but just bent the washer.
Revracer is offline  
Old 03-23-22, 04:22 PM
  #2  
merziac
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 10,465

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3250 Post(s)
Liked 3,122 Times in 1,959 Posts
Originally Posted by Revracer View Post
So I really wanted to swap cranks and use a VO look alike on my Peugeot PKN. I have never had so much difficulty in opening a BB. First the crank threads stripped on the Stronglight. Then I bought a pulley puller that only destroyed the rings and did nothing to remove the crank. Next shot, I decided to take the BB cup off the left side and see if I could punch the BB shaft out of the crank. That worked, crank off, but then to service the BB, I cannot get the fixed cup off. I understand this is a French bike and both cups are supposed to tighten to the right and loosen to the left. Is there any reason this Peugeot would be different than normal French threads?

Damage to crank rings and tried the BB tool to clamp on fixed cup but just bent the washer.
IMHO, you will need the proper fixed cup wrench and need to set it up so it stays on so you can use a serious cheater.

The enclosed wrench is the only one to ever use and a thinwall pipe with the end flattened works best for the cheater.

These pics are going the wrong way but you get the idea.

You have to be able to hold the frame tight and it can be done on the ground if you set it up right.






merziac is offline  
Likes For merziac:
Old 03-23-22, 04:47 PM
  #3  
Mr. 66
Senior Member
 
Mr. 66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,341
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 739 Post(s)
Liked 827 Times in 502 Posts
Depends, You may have Swiss or English.
Mr. 66 is offline  
Old 03-23-22, 05:03 PM
  #4  
Revracer
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Revracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Eastern PA, USA
Posts: 190

Bikes: 1973 Schwinn World Voyageur | Francesco Moser SL | 1984 Ross Utopian | St. Etienne 531 | 1981 Peugeot PK10 | 2015 Cannondale SuperSix | 2012 Felt F65X

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked 51 Times in 18 Posts
@merziac thank you for sharing your setup. I will explore the pipe route with my current BB tool.

Could a Peugeot actually get Swiss threading? I realize for as much as I beat on the fixed cup already, I guess trying the opposite direction could not do much more harm.
Revracer is offline  
Old 03-23-22, 05:13 PM
  #5  
merziac
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 10,465

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3250 Post(s)
Liked 3,122 Times in 1,959 Posts
Originally Posted by Revracer View Post
@merziac thank you for sharing your setup. I will explore the pipe route with my current BB tool.

Could a Peugeot actually get Swiss threading? I realize for as much as I beat on the fixed cup already, I guess trying the opposite direction could not do much more harm.
Yes, could be Swiss, are you using the big open end wrench on the cup?

You're welcome and you're right, once you get the wrench/pipe/clamp setup right, you will be able to turn it either way but if its as tight as it seems you must get a wrench that encircles the the whole cup, Campy, Sugino and lastly Park which I am not a fan of but can work. If the cup becomes too compromised from the wrench slipping you may have to cut it out potentially causing more damage.

I encourage you to step back and get it right from here before it goes any further south.
merziac is offline  
Old 03-23-22, 05:14 PM
  #6  
bikemig 
Senior Member
 
bikemig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 19,401

Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones

Mentioned: 168 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5452 Post(s)
Liked 2,322 Times in 1,499 Posts
Do a bit of googling around but the stronglight cups often have markings that tell you the threading but yes this could be swiss threaded. I've had good luck using a big 15 inch adjustable wrench for getting fixed cups on and off.

Last edited by bikemig; 03-23-22 at 05:25 PM.
bikemig is offline  
Old 03-23-22, 05:17 PM
  #7  
Mr. 66
Senior Member
 
Mr. 66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,341
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 739 Post(s)
Liked 827 Times in 502 Posts
Yes, they had Swiss threading on a lot of models late 70's to mid 80's. It's like they saved French threading for the top bikes. They did a real mashup of combinations of threads and braze-ons and shift mounts during those years.
Mr. 66 is offline  
Old 03-23-22, 05:19 PM
  #8  
merziac
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 10,465

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3250 Post(s)
Liked 3,122 Times in 1,959 Posts
Originally Posted by Revracer View Post
@merziac thank you for sharing your setup. I will explore the pipe route with my current BB tool.

Could a Peugeot actually get Swiss threading? I realize for as much as I beat on the fixed cup already, I guess trying the opposite direction could not do much more harm.
I now see you cut out the wrench, I assume to go on the cup with the crank in place, it will never hold onto the tight cup like that to get it off, they are barely thick/strong enough to work without cutting on them and will ruin the flats on the cup by slipping off under pressure.
merziac is offline  
Old 03-23-22, 05:27 PM
  #9  
merziac
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 10,465

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3250 Post(s)
Liked 3,122 Times in 1,959 Posts
Originally Posted by Revracer View Post
@merziac thank you for sharing your setup. I will explore the pipe route with my current BB tool.

Could a Peugeot actually get Swiss threading? I realize for as much as I beat on the fixed cup already, I guess trying the opposite direction could not do much more harm.
It can do plenty more harm so be advised that you must support the BB to really lean on it, it cannot be in that stand, it will crush or bend any tube you clamp it on.

Get it on the ground with a good pad of cardboard, dense foam or wood so you can manhandle it properly.

It looks like those flats on the cup are already pretty compromised.
merziac is offline  
Likes For merziac:
Old 03-23-22, 05:28 PM
  #10  
Revracer
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Revracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Eastern PA, USA
Posts: 190

Bikes: 1973 Schwinn World Voyageur | Francesco Moser SL | 1984 Ross Utopian | St. Etienne 531 | 1981 Peugeot PK10 | 2015 Cannondale SuperSix | 2012 Felt F65X

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked 51 Times in 18 Posts
merziac Yes, I cut the tool for exactly as you suggested. Perfect detective work and I bought a new Park tool (did not think of trying another brand) and have the clamps as you use. I think I will try going the Swiss way tomorrow with fresh eyes. The other option is to leave the fixed cup in an hope the BB shaft fits the Velo Orange crank without rub.

Thanks for that insight Mr. 66
Revracer is offline  
Old 03-23-22, 05:38 PM
  #11  
merziac
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 10,465

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3250 Post(s)
Liked 3,122 Times in 1,959 Posts
Originally Posted by Revracer View Post
merziac Yes, I cut the tool for exactly as you suggested. Perfect detective work and I bought a new Park tool (did not think of trying another brand) and have the clamps as you use. I think I will try going the Swiss way tomorrow with fresh eyes. The other option is to leave the fixed cup in an hope the BB shaft fits the Velo Orange crank without rub.

Thanks for that insight Mr. 66
Sounds good, if you get the setup right and are able to properly lean on it, you should be able to get it loose.

Patience is key and make sure it will hold before you really apply force.

This setup has never failed or damaged any parts, tools, frames or flesh, ever, period.

And I remove all fixed cups to inspect, clean, service and torque properly so they will come out when they need to down the road.
merziac is offline  
Old 03-23-22, 05:54 PM
  #12  
Kabuki12
Senior Member
 
Kabuki12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Ventura County ,California
Posts: 2,317

Bikes: 71 Stella,72 Mondia Special,72 ItalVega Grand Rallye, 73 Windsor Pro,75 Colnago Super,76 Kabuki DF,77 Raleigh Comp.GS,78 Raleigh Pro,80 Moto Gran Sprint,82 Medici Pro Strada

Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 534 Post(s)
Liked 1,155 Times in 688 Posts
Fixed cup removal is a pain but Merziac is right. I always lay the frame down on a painters drop cloth and then I use my machinists brass hammer to tap (real hard)on the wrench and to date has worked. The cheater may work better but you may need to have someone secure the frame.
Kabuki12 is offline  
Old 03-23-22, 06:17 PM
  #13  
Soody
Senior Member
 
Soody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 792

Bikes: Gunnar, F Moser, Pete Tansley, Rocky Mountain, Diamant, Marin, Shogun, Avanti, Winora

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 158 Post(s)
Liked 213 Times in 113 Posts
I have used sheldons method a few times and find it works quite well
essentially you bolt a big bolt on the cup and tighten it until the cup loosens. Can work in either direction.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbcups.html
Soody is offline  
Likes For Soody:
Old 03-23-22, 06:19 PM
  #14  
Soody
Senior Member
 
Soody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 792

Bikes: Gunnar, F Moser, Pete Tansley, Rocky Mountain, Diamant, Marin, Shogun, Avanti, Winora

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 158 Post(s)
Liked 213 Times in 113 Posts
sorry about that nice crank too, thats a bummer

good luck
Soody is offline  
Old 03-23-22, 06:21 PM
  #15  
oneclick 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,959
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 734 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 769 Times in 466 Posts
When you don't know which way a cup is supposed to turn, you just try alternating directions, increasing the force each way each time. When it moves the first time it'll either get tighter or looser, and you'll know which one by the feel.
oneclick is offline  
Likes For oneclick:
Old 03-23-22, 06:30 PM
  #16  
cyclophilia
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Desert Southwest
Posts: 118
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 25 Times in 18 Posts
Lubrication?

You did not mention lubricant as one of your steps in the removal of the stubborn fixed cup…

Try some Kroil or PB Blaster or other penetrating oil on both the outside edge of the bottom bracket shell around the fixed cup and into the threads from inside the bottom bracket. Let the oil sit a while. Repeat the process.

Depending on your location there might be a BF member in your vicinity with the proper VAR shop tool for fixed cup removal. That tool grabs the cup securely with no risk of slipping.

Best wishes for the success of your project.

May we see a photo of the crank arm remover that stripped the threads on your Stronglight crank?
cyclophilia is offline  
Old 03-23-22, 07:42 PM
  #17  
CV-6 
If I own it, I ride it
 
CV-6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cardinal Country
Posts: 5,456

Bikes: Lejeune(14), Raleigh, Raysport, Jan De Reus, Gazelle, Masi, B. Carré(4), Springfield, Motobecane(2), Greg Lemond, Andre Bertin, Schwinn Paramount

Mentioned: 55 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 547 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 504 Times in 244 Posts
One ring, eight sides on fixed Stronglight cup is French.
__________________
Please do not "like" my posts. This isn't Facebook.

Lynn Travers

Photos

CV-6 is offline  
Old 03-23-22, 08:23 PM
  #18  
merziac
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 10,465

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3250 Post(s)
Liked 3,122 Times in 1,959 Posts
Originally Posted by cyclophilia View Post
You did not mention lubricant as one of your steps in the removal of the stubborn fixed cup…

Try some Kroil or PB Blaster or other penetrating oil on both the outside edge of the bottom bracket shell around the fixed cup and into the threads from inside the bottom bracket. Let the oil sit a while. Repeat the process.

Depending on your location there might be a BF member in your vicinity with the proper VAR shop tool for fixed cup removal. That tool grabs the cup securely with no risk of slipping.

Best wishes for the success of your project.

May we see a photo of the crank arm remover that stripped the threads on your Stronglight crank?
Its in the pic with all the tools, parts and pieces, looks to be a standard Park BSA from here.
merziac is offline  
Old 03-23-22, 08:30 PM
  #19  
merziac
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 10,465

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3250 Post(s)
Liked 3,122 Times in 1,959 Posts
Originally Posted by Kabuki12 View Post
Fixed cup removal is a pain but Merziac is right. I always lay the frame down on a painters drop cloth and then I use my machinists brass hammer to tap (real hard)on the wrench and to date has worked. The cheater may work better but you may need to have someone secure the frame.
It doesn't have to be a pain, you must go all in from the beginning, plan for the worst. Last one I did was the Bianchi Super Leggera, had to get out a 4 foot cheater, zip tie the BB to the stand and hug it tight while leaning on it, snap, crackle, pop, done!
merziac is offline  
Likes For merziac:
Old 03-23-22, 08:34 PM
  #20  
cyclophilia
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Desert Southwest
Posts: 118
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 25 Times in 18 Posts
Thanks merziac!

I did not see it until you caused me to look more intently.

I have a concern that the remover might have been a 22.0 or 23.0 when the crank might have needed the 23.35.

French and Swiss thread specifications do provide their challenges.
cyclophilia is offline  
Likes For cyclophilia:
Old 03-23-22, 08:40 PM
  #21  
merziac
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 10,465

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3250 Post(s)
Liked 3,122 Times in 1,959 Posts
Originally Posted by CV-6 View Post
One ring, eight sides on fixed Stronglight cup is French.
One ring and two flats on the outer edge like most others on this one.
merziac is offline  
Old 03-23-22, 08:42 PM
  #22  
merziac
Senior Member
 
merziac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: PDX
Posts: 10,465

Bikes: Merz x 5 + Specialized Merz Allez x 2, Strawberry/Newlands/DiNucci/Ti x3, Gordon, Fuso/Moulton x2, Bornstein, Paisley,1958-74 Paramounts x3, 3rensho, 74 Moto TC, 73-78 Raleigh Pro's x5, Marinoni x2, 1960 Cinelli SC, 1980 Bianchi SC, PX-10 X 2

Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3250 Post(s)
Liked 3,122 Times in 1,959 Posts
Originally Posted by cyclophilia View Post
Thanks merziac!

I did not see it until you caused me to look more intently.

I have a concern that the remover might have been a 22.0 or 23.0 when the crank might have needed the 23.35.

French and Swiss thread specifications do provide their challenges.
You're welcome.

Hard to say but pretty sure no standard looking puller like that now days isn't going to be standard BSA.
merziac is offline  
Old 03-23-22, 09:23 PM
  #23  
dedhed
SE Wis
 
dedhed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 9,033

Bikes: '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400, 2013 Novara Randonee, 1990 Trek 970

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2135 Post(s)
Liked 2,158 Times in 1,337 Posts
Jacobs chuck wedge sizes
dedhed is offline  
Old 03-23-22, 10:04 PM
  #24  
Chombi1 
Senior Member
 
Chombi1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 3,861
Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1370 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 471 Times in 323 Posts
Note that the older Stronglight cranksets (pre-80's) had a removal threaded hole that is very slightly bigger than the industry standard. That's why the tool makers like Park and Stronglight themselves had a removal tool sized specifically for them.
Because of this, a lot of shops not familiar with the old Stronglight standards end up stripping the threads when they try to use the wrong removal tool.
BTW, you might be able to confirm the fixed cup threading direction if you look only at the threads (if they are showing) from inside the BB shell.....
Chombi1 is offline  
Likes For Chombi1:
Old 03-23-22, 11:21 PM
  #25  
redshift1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2022
Location: Australia
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times in 7 Posts
I once removed a very tight fixed cup by clamping it in a vice - not sure if this is an option for you - and then turning the frame. I think this was a Sheldon Brown suggestion.
redshift1 is offline  
Likes For redshift1:

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.