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Peugeot 130 mm rear frame spacing

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Peugeot 130 mm rear frame spacing

Old 03-23-22, 10:03 PM
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redshift1
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Peugeot 130 mm rear frame spacing

Hi everyone. First post here.

I realised a while ago I only really like Peugeots. Probably as I had one as a kid back in the 70's and remember the great times I had on that bike ( UO8 or whatever it was called in the Australian market ).

Are there any Peugeot's back from the classic era that came standard with a 130 mm rear frame spacing ?

I'm thinking they stopped making bikes before this newer standard came in.

I don't really want to cold-set ( alter ) a classic frameset.

Specific model names to look for ( if any ) would be appreciated.
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Old 03-23-22, 10:34 PM
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I have two suggestions:

1. Any Peugeot with 126mm spacing can be used with a 130mm wheel. It doesn't require modification. Cold setting just makes it easier to get the wheel in and out.

2. 1970's Peugeots, especially UO8s, even now, are among the most common bikes on the planet. I wouldn't worry at all about cold setting one
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Old 03-24-22, 12:51 AM
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Peugeots were mostly spaced at 122 -126mm through the 70's and 80's.
By the very late 80's they must have gone to the wider 130mm spacing to accomodate more than 6 speeds at the back.....
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Old 03-24-22, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Andy_K View Post
1970's Peugeots, especially UO8s, even now, are among the most common bikes on the planet. I wouldn't worry at all about cold setting one
BTW, I wanted to clarify that I don't mean this as a slight against Peugeots. The fact that they sold so many is a testimony to the fact that they were doing something right.
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Old 03-24-22, 03:13 AM
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I think Shimano may have been first with introducing 8 speed freehubs ( and the "need" for 130 mm rear spaced frames ) in the late 80's. And their first 8 speed Dura Ace hubs had beveled outer washers to allow easier insertion in 126 mm frames. So the suggestion to insert a 130 mm hub into a 126 mm frame, without cold-setting the frame, seems very acceptable.


I should have mentioned that I was only really looking at Peugeot higher end steel frames as I have some nice Mavic 571 8-speed hubs ( 130 mm rear ) that I would like to use on a Peugeot. So no offence taken about the UO-8's :-)


After spending some time looking through the later Peugeot catalogues, I see models I have never even heard of like the C1500. I think these are past the "classic steel" era, at least for Peugeot's top end bikes, and may be using aluminium or carbon frame materials. Despite the language differences, and that frame rear spacings are not given, I was able to make out "16 v" under "Transmission" in a 1996 catalogue for the C1500. It seems Peugeot have gone to 8 speed by 1996 ( and possibly earlier ) and presumably the compatible 130 mm rear spacing by then.


I think my answer is to use something like an Aneto frame ( mid to late 80's ) and 126 mm, and just see how I go with the 130 mm hubs.


Thanks to both of you for the above replies.
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Old 03-24-22, 06:04 AM
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130mm spacing on road bicycles came with the introduction of 8 speed cassettes by Shimano in 1989. Consequently, 8 speeds started trickling down though the product lines in the 1990s. I don't know the situation in Australian market, but in Canada and the USA, the road line shrunk during this period, while the ATB and hybrid lines expanded. I believe that the only steel tubed models to come though with 130mm spacing were the Dolomites and Biarritz.
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Old 03-24-22, 08:59 AM
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OP: Check out PX-10DU, Vitus 979 frames are 126 mm, produced in large numbers for 18 years, wore many marque's decals. Don



1982 Peugeot team on "979's" (far left/right)
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Old 03-24-22, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
130mm spacing on road bicycles came with the introduction of 8 speed cassettes by Shimano in 1989. Consequently, 8 speeds started trickling down though the product lines in the 1990s. I don't know the situation in Australian market, but in Canada and the USA, the road line shrunk during this period, while the ATB and hybrid lines expanded. I believe that the only steel tubed models to come though with 130mm spacing were the Dolomites and Biarritz.
That's exactly what I wanted to know. Thank you !
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Old 03-24-22, 07:00 PM
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ollo ollo : ( Can't seem to post direct reply. Maybe sub-10 posts issue. )

I'm mainly interested in steel frames at the moment, those look like very nice bikes. Great Peugeot team photo.
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Old 03-24-22, 07:12 PM
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I spread my 1959 Capo from 120 to 126, to accommodate a standard 6-speed freewheel, without any problems. Some 7-speed/hub combinations will fit in 126, although most I have seen need 128mm OLD.

I put a Shimano ultra-6 freewheel (7-speed lateral spacing between cogs) on my UO-8, which required pushing it slightly to 122-123mm.
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Old 03-25-22, 04:43 AM
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[QUOTE=ollo_ollo;22449344]OP: Check out PX-10DU, Vitus 979 frames are 126 mm, produced in large numbers for 18 years, wore many marque's decals. Don



I will leave for experts to confirm but I believe the vitus 979 aluminum frames are not to be spread at all. Personally I would not even try to put a 130 old wheel in the 126 aluminum frames as it would impart stresses it’s not designed to take not to mention aluminum can not be cold set

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Old 03-25-22, 10:05 AM
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Per above, the OP is only interested in steel frames. So this is just some info on the 979's:

I run my two 979's in 6 speed, 1 has shimano 600 6 speed, the other had Campy Athena set up 7 speed, that I changed to 6 speed with the correct 6 speed disc for a Winner Pro freewheel I found. The rear dropouts on my frames measure 127mm, and the stays have some flex due to their glued joints, so not rigid as a welded aluminum frame would be. The 979 frames have a non-jarring ride due to this flex in the glued joints and I would be comfortable with a 3mm flex to fit a 130 mm rear wheel. (which might only be 128 or 129 mm anyway)
If I needed more gears, I would 1st try to find a Campagnolo Athena rear hub in 126mm, as VeloBase indicates they were made in that size. 8 speed in 126mm spacing would eliminate a need for spreading:
https://www.roadbikereview.com/threa...mm-tail.88938/ https://velobase.com/ViewComponent.a...bd4ae&Enum=110
Don
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Old 03-26-22, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by ollo_ollo View Post
Per above, the OP is only interested in steel frames. So this is just some info on the 979's:

I run my two 979's in 6 speed, 1 has shimano 600 6 speed, the other had Campy Athena set up 7 speed, that I changed to 6 speed with the correct 6 speed disc for a Winner Pro freewheel I found. The rear dropouts on my frames measure 127mm, and the stays have some flex due to their glued joints, so not rigid as a welded aluminum frame would be. The 979 frames have a non-jarring ride due to this flex in the glued joints and I would be comfortable with a 3mm flex to fit a 130 mm rear wheel. (which might only be 128 or 129 mm anyway)
If I needed more gears, I would 1st try to find a Campagnolo Athena rear hub in 126mm, as VeloBase indicates they were made in that size. 8 speed in 126mm spacing would eliminate a need for spreading:
https://www.roadbikereview.com/threa...mm-tail.88938/ https://velobase.com/ViewComponent.a...bd4ae&Enum=110
Don
Hello Don, thanks for sharing real world experience. Iíve been interested in these and wondered how they ride and how versatile. Do you have any tips on how to inspect / what to look for regarding any issues with glued joints or other areas of concern? I know the gen I seat tube ears are well documented as being one area hence the design change in gen II. Iíve only come across one for sale where seller said there was a joint issue where tubes separating at glue joint. Thanks for advice . Steve
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Old 03-26-22, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Andy_K View Post
BTW, I wanted to clarify that I don't mean this as a slight against Peugeots. The fact that they sold so many is a testimony to the fact that they were doing something right.
I agree, and the fact that so many of them have survived!
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Old 03-26-22, 07:17 AM
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I thought 979 was steel. No?
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Old 03-26-22, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Road Fan View Post
I thought 979 was steel. No?
No. The 979 and later 992 were both made of aluminum tubes bonded to cast aluminum lugs.

The OP has 130mm hubs, but another choice (that I employed in order to get more gears on my 126mm-spaced Klein) is to use a 10s cassette on an un-modified 126mm (7s) Ultegra freehub.
The design of a Shimano or SRAM 10s cassette offsets the largest cog inward toward the spokes, allowing for a narrower mounting on the freehub body, yet without the derailer fouling the spokes at all.

The only caveats are that 9s and 8s cassettes won't allow this, and that a long-threaded (think "SRAM alloy 11s lockring") 11t lockring must be used with a 12t smallest cog (so as to allow the lockring's toothed flange to nest within the annular recess of the 12t cog). That will not allow engagement of the lockring's teeth since the recess is smooth-faced, but one can use a bit of LocTite on the threads if concerned about possible loosening (I used no LocTite and have had no loosening).

The 11t lockring in the 12t smallest cog will require less torque to achieve sufficient tension at the threads because of the absence of mating teeth on the 12t cog's recessed mating surface, so better to use LocTite than to heavily tighten it. Many hubs (even those with alloy freehub bodies) seem to be getting by using just under two full turns of lockring engagement, so the same or slightly less engagement in Shimano's steel freehub body will easily suffice imo (filing off the lockring's teeth would net even more threaded engagement).
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Old 03-26-22, 10:44 AM
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Redshift, I'm a builder/painter that has done lots of widening of rear triangles. Many European frames in the classic era (including Peugeots) where not aligned well coming from the factory and I needed to move both front and rear tubes more than what it takes to go from 126 to 130. It doesn't really hurt a steel frame to cold set the dropouts a few mms wider. In fact doing a proper alignment including spreading the rear to 130 will probably be doing the frame favor. Look at how much bend we put in forks to get the proper rake. And it also isn't difficult to return back to 126 spacing if there was a desire to use original parts again.

My only caution is that I have read on C&V homemade methods to cold set frames that make me shudder. A rear triangle can be bent with 2 X 4s but there are a number of other factors that go into proper alignment that really require special tools to get right. I've found that Japanese frames on the other hand were usually spot on with alignment.

I've enjoyed reading this subject thread finding solutions if one did or could not want to cold set the rear triangle wider.
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Old 03-26-22, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Slowride79 View Post
Do you have any tips on how to inspect / what to look for regarding any issues with glued joints or other areas of concern?
Steve: I was interested in the 979 until I had a few bone jarring rides on other aluminum bikes, thought 979's claimed smooth ride must be advertising hype, but never rode one. Got my 1st 979 last Summer when saw one for sale near my Puget Sound relatives, The comfortable ride was not hype, and price low.

Buying is like any vintage bike. Inspect all joints carefully, also, look for cracks(I went over mine with a magnifying glass). Don't get so caught up with the frame that you forget to check out the components and wheelset.

The Vitus bonding process used a heat set epoxy to cement the tubes over extensions of the castings with a snug fit. I saw 1 frame with a failed joint that would come loose from the chain stay if you pulled back on the dropout. I asked my chemist/production engineer bro-in-law about age related bond failure and he said similar process is used to bond brake linings onto steel pads. Back in the day, Vitus did repairs, and I've read there were some who did repairs in U.S., but doubt its available now. Some really strong guys like Sean Kelley rode the 979 successfully, but I read he liked to have a new frame every month, so maybe best for smaller guys like me(I weight 142-145 pounds) since we don't have a team budget. Also, I'm old so not riding bike real hard. Don
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Old 03-26-22, 09:07 PM
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[QUOTE=Doug Fattic;22451482]Redshift, I'm a builder/painter that has done lots of widening of rear triangles. Many European frames in the classic era (including Peugeots) where not aligned well coming from the factory and I needed to move both front and rear tubes more than what it takes to go from 126 to 130. It doesn't really hurt a steel frame to cold set the dropouts a few mms wider. In fact doing a proper alignment including spreading the rear to 130 will probably be doing the frame favor. Look at how much bend we put in forks to get the proper rake. And it also isn't difficult to return back to 126 spacing if there was a desire to use original parts again.

Thanks for the expert info. I probably won't cold-set the 126 mm frame ( which I have but was keeping ) as I'm too "emotionally attached" to it but what you say all adds to know how.
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Old 03-27-22, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by redshift1 View Post
Hi everyone. First post here.

I realised a while ago I only really like Peugeots. Probably as I had one as a kid back in the 70's and remember the great times I had on that bike ( UO8 or whatever it was called in the Australian market ).

Are there any Peugeot's back from the classic era that came standard with a 130 mm rear frame spacing ?

I'm thinking they stopped making bikes before this newer standard came in.

I don't really want to cold-set ( alter ) a classic frameset.

Specific model names to look for ( if any ) would be appreciated.
Don't know what you mean by the "classic era" but I have a Columbus Thron Peugeot "Competition" with internal brazing that I bought new in around 2000. It came with Campag Veloce 9sp and has 130mm spacing. Nice bike.
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Old 03-27-22, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by guy153 View Post
Don't know what you mean by the "classic era" but I have a Columbus Thron Peugeot "Competition" with internal brazing that I bought new in around 2000. It came with Campag Veloce 9sp and has 130mm spacing. Nice bike.
By around 1992 or so, any road bike of even decent (not box-store) quality and "good" enough to use a freehub was made to the 130mm width, even those that still featured (130mm) 7s freehubs.
Peugeot was not an exception.
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Old 03-28-22, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by guy153 View Post
Don't know what you mean by the "classic era" but I have a Columbus Thron Peugeot "Competition" with internal brazing that I bought new in around 2000. It came with Campag Veloce 9sp and has 130mm spacing. Nice bike.
Good point. The term "classic era" wasn't very precise. I should have specified lugged steel bikes but since being on this forum for a short while and seeing what bikes others have, I have widened my view, starting to consider Vitus alum. and internal brazed framed Peugeots like yours.
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Old 03-28-22, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by redshift1 View Post
Good point. The term "classic era" wasn't very precise. I should have specified lugged steel bikes but since being on this forum for a short while and seeing what bikes others have, I have widened my view, starting to consider Vitus alum. and internal brazed framed Peugeots like yours.
To me internal brazing is the defining feature of Peugeots. Everyone had those silky white ones back when I were a lad which were usually made of various proprietary steel alloys a bit below where the Reynolds and Columbus ranges started.
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