Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Replacement Record front cones

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Replacement Record front cones

Old 04-13-22, 09:31 AM
  #1  
Aardwolf
Old Git
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: London UK
Posts: 234

Bikes: 1982 Holdsworth Avanti

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked 128 Times in 74 Posts
Replacement Record front cones

Hiya folks,
I've just got a Record front hub (possibly around 1982, 7/32" bearings) in the post and it's great ,,,, except for the cones (marked 9 x 26tpi).
So I'm wondering what the correct part number is and did the cones ever change ?

Mainly because I found an advert for

Campagnolo HB-RE005 Front Cone for 1994-96 Record Front Hub. Uses 7/32 Bearings

Which would seem to be the about right except for the date range.
Anybody know if these would fit ?
Aardwolf is offline  
Old 04-17-22, 03:36 AM
  #2  
Aardwolf
Old Git
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: London UK
Posts: 234

Bikes: 1982 Holdsworth Avanti

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked 128 Times in 74 Posts
I've ordered one cone for £12 to see what it's like.

In the meantime I've worked out a way of comparing cones:
1) Photograph the outline - cone on a lightbox and macro lens on a copy stand (so distance fixed)
2) Magic Wand in photoshop to detect the outline
3) Fill and stroke in photoshop to isolate the edge
4) Merge different cone images at 50% opacity.

The previous front hub for these rims is an Ofmega which uses 3/16" bearings and a 9mm 26tpi axle (ie. Campy spec):

Campy Record 25/R: 7/32" bearings, 15.8mm diameter, 11.5mm length
Ofmega: 3/16" bearings, 16mm diameter, 12mm length




It looks to me like those line up quite well, I could probably just use the Ofmega cones
I'll do another comparison when the HB-RE005 cone turns up.
Aardwolf is offline  
Old 04-17-22, 06:06 AM
  #3  
Bianchigirll 
Bianchi Goddess
 
Bianchigirll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Shady Pines Retirement Fort Wayne, In
Posts: 28,400

Bikes: Too many to list here check my signature.

Mentioned: 156 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2361 Post(s)
Liked 1,434 Times in 844 Posts
Originally Posted by Aardwolf View Post
I've ordered one cone for £12 to see what it's like.

In the meantime I've worked out a way of comparing cones:
1) Photograph the outline - cone on a lightbox and macro lens on a copy stand (so distance fixed)
2) Magic Wand in photoshop to detect the outline
3) Fill and stroke in photoshop to isolate the edge
4) Merge different cone images at 50% opacity.

The previous front hub for these rims is an Ofmega which uses 3/16" bearings and a 9mm 26tpi axle (ie. Campy spec):

Campy Record 25/R: 7/32" bearings, 15.8mm diameter, 11.5mm length
Ofmega: 3/16" bearings, 16mm diameter, 12mm length




It looks to me like those line up quite well, I could probably just use the Ofmega cones
I'll do another comparison when the HB-RE005 cone turns up.
Good Morning. I donít understand why no one answered your original question unless, like me, they arenít quite sure what the question is and what youíre trying to do.

I believe the part number fir the Ď82ish cone is 25R.

The new cone for a Ď94-96 Record hub might be same but slightly different since that is now for the Ergo era hubs, which the front one is still basically based on the Corsa Recorc hubs.


in regards to this morningís post, since the Ofmega hub is basically a CampI clone the cone will likely work.

However IMHO if your ultimate goal is simply to replace a Ofmega hub on a built wheel with a CampI hub, I think youíre doing a lot of thinking and work for little gain. The working quality of both hubs is about the same although under regular daily use the CampI might last a bit longer. As for presentation most casual observers will never really notice the difference. Also if you have a built functional wheel rebuilding it simply to change the hub sounds somewhat like a foolís errand to me.

Maybe when I was younger I might have been more picky about things like this but I think pure laziness saved from such things as swapping out a Super Record headset for a Chorus one or the hub swap your doing. These days as long as the bike is clean, functional and performs well thatís much more important that every part matching and being made on the same day despite being from 23 different companies.
__________________
ďOne morning you wake up, the girl is gone, the bikes are gone, all that's left behind is a pair of old tires and a tube of tubular glue, all squeezed out"

Sugar "Kane" Kowalczyk
Bianchigirll is offline  
Old 04-17-22, 06:28 AM
  #4  
verktyg 
verktyg
 
verktyg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 3,984

Bikes: Current favorites: 1988 Peugeot Birraritz, 1984 Gitane Super Corsa, 1981 Bianchi Campione Del Mondo, 1992 Paramount OS, 1990 Bianchi Mondiale, 1988 Colnago Technos, 1985 RalieghUSA Team Pro, 1973 Holdsworth

Mentioned: 196 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1007 Post(s)
Liked 1,102 Times in 603 Posts
A few years back I overhauled an Ofmega front hub using Campy Record 25/R cones that dated at least as far back as the 1960 catalog. The Campy cones appeared to be a little better quality than the Ofmega cones.

verktyg
__________________
Don't believe everything you think! History is written by those who weren't there....

Chas. ;-)

verktyg is offline  
Old 04-17-22, 06:49 AM
  #5  
Aardwolf
Old Git
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: London UK
Posts: 234

Bikes: 1982 Holdsworth Avanti

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked 128 Times in 74 Posts
Morning, and thanks for the reply.

Yep, my original post didn't say why I'm doing this

My Holdsworth came with a set of Mavic Monthlery Route tubular rims on Ofmega hubs when I bought it, the original spec is Super Champion Model 58 clincher rims.
I put on a set of Tufo S33 Pro to get the bike running and they work but they are a bit harsh. But I had to replace a bad cone on the rear axle and eventually replaced the
whole rear axle with a Weldtite one (a noob mistake). Also it has naff zinc plated spokes.

So I built a set of Mavic MA2 rims with decent tyres and they're working really well (8 speed with Shimano RX100 hubs and DT stainless spokes). The hubs are noticably better than the Ofmega ones.
They are now my 'everyday' rims and I was wondering what to do with the Monthlery Route.

I decided to rebuild them as period good quality tubulars (for an urban environment): better hubs + stainless spokes + decent tyres.
The (Mistral) Holdsworth pricier than the one I've got had Campy hubs as standard (probably Nuovo Tipo since the catalogue doesn't say Record) so I decided to look for some Nuovo Tipo or Record hubs on Ebay.
So I've now got a Record front hub and a Nuovo Tipo rear hub in the post, I'm thinking they will work better than the Ofmega hubs I've already got.
But I've got no real idea of how good the Ofmega hubs are supposed to be, I can't identify the model on Velobase.


To be honest changing the tyres will make the most difference, but I also don't like the scruffy zinc spokes and I think the new hubs will be better.

Yep I've now worked out the '82 Record cones are known as 25R but I don't know how/if they are different from the ones in the advert.
If the advertised cones can work in my '82 Record hubs they would be better since they're NOS in factory packaging, but I could fit the Ofmega cones until I find some 25R.

So I think it all makes senese, even if a lot of people would'nt try it
Aardwolf is offline  
Likes For Aardwolf:
Old 04-17-22, 07:56 AM
  #6  
Bianchigirll 
Bianchi Goddess
 
Bianchigirll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Shady Pines Retirement Fort Wayne, In
Posts: 28,400

Bikes: Too many to list here check my signature.

Mentioned: 156 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2361 Post(s)
Liked 1,434 Times in 844 Posts
While not the lightest those Montherly Route rims were nice. I had a pair laced to some Sheriff Star hubs and other than a bent rear axles, I had respaced them to 8spd, I don’t recall ever having an issue.
__________________
ďOne morning you wake up, the girl is gone, the bikes are gone, all that's left behind is a pair of old tires and a tube of tubular glue, all squeezed out"

Sugar "Kane" Kowalczyk
Bianchigirll is offline  
Likes For Bianchigirll:
Old 04-17-22, 08:15 AM
  #7  
Aardwolf
Old Git
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: London UK
Posts: 234

Bikes: 1982 Holdsworth Avanti

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked 128 Times in 74 Posts
Yep, I got this bike 6 months back after a break of 35ish years and I'd never experienced tubulars, I quite like them.
I figure the roads round here are not great so the Monthlery Route are probably a good option and won't break.
However I'm not sure I could fix a tubular on the roadside.

I'm going to fit a 7 speed freewheel (Sunrace 14-28 probably) and some 28c tubulars (Vittoria Rubino Pro IV G2.0 ?) and wear
them on sunny days in the summer and promenade slowly looking cool (maybe).
Aardwolf is offline  
Old 04-17-22, 08:31 AM
  #8  
obrentharris 
Senior Member
 
obrentharris's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Point Reyes Station, California
Posts: 3,899

Bikes: Indeed!

Mentioned: 80 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1158 Post(s)
Liked 2,028 Times in 681 Posts
Originally Posted by Aardwolf View Post
...However I'm not sure I could fix a tubular on the roadside...
Most of us mere mortals don't try to fix tubulars on the roadside: We just carry a spare (or two!)
Brent
obrentharris is offline  
Likes For obrentharris:
Old 04-17-22, 09:02 AM
  #9  
Aardwolf
Old Git
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: London UK
Posts: 234

Bikes: 1982 Holdsworth Avanti

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked 128 Times in 74 Posts
Yep, I've heard the theory

I had to stretch the Tufo S33 Pros for 3 days using a ratchet luggage strap before they would go on the rims.
I took the front one off a few days back - about 2 hours using tyre levers (it was my first time), the Tufo tape came off cleanly though.

I'm sure the theory is correct, but I know I can change an inner tube in 10 mins because I've done it.
I'm hoping Vittoria Rubino Pro IV are easier.
Aardwolf is offline  
Old 04-17-22, 09:43 AM
  #10  
Road Fan
Senior Member
 
Road Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,135

Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8

Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1542 Post(s)
Liked 448 Times in 344 Posts
I have some experience with tubulars, which I would like to share. First, Iím working on a set of nearly-period correct wheels for my Peugeot PX-10 from 1967 or so, and a set of Monthlery would be very near to OEM for that bike. I have a trade in mind for you. This part of the site is not for commercial stuff, so Iíll try to send you a PM about that.

Also, I donít think we were clear: I think very few people have ever made a practice of patching tubular inner tubes on the roadside, regardless of your (or my) clincher chops. The big difference is stitching up the tire casing after you have patched the tube. Itís normal, and has been since I first had tubulars around 1970, to carry a spare tire or two, and a good pump that can get you 90 to 100 psi. The classic in my day was the Silca. Another classic experience was to fix a few punctured tubulars in an evening where itís quiet, well-lit, and you have a place for a beverage or your dinner.



If you wanted to shift those
Road Fan is offline  
Old 04-17-22, 10:19 AM
  #11  
Aardwolf
Old Git
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: London UK
Posts: 234

Bikes: 1982 Holdsworth Avanti

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked 128 Times in 74 Posts
Sorry for any confusion, I realise carrying a spare tubular is the norm, I wasn't expecting to stitch one on the road.
And I've even got an original Bluemels 3 frame pump that actually works, I used it on the Tufos before I got a track pump.

It's just that I can't see fitting a spare Tufo S33 Pro on the roadside unless I've pre-stretched it and I've got 3 hours to spare.
Maybe I'll learn how to do it some day.

The Monthlery Route are the only tubular rims I've got and they're perfect for my situation so I think I'll be hanging on to them.
Aardwolf is offline  
Old 04-17-22, 12:30 PM
  #12  
obuckler
Full Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Dallas
Posts: 331

Bikes: 71 Lygieó72 Raleigh Grand Prixó76 Raleigh Super Courseó76 Bruce Gordonó74 Raleigh International(2)ó2005 Specialized Roubaix Pro

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)
Liked 109 Times in 53 Posts
Originally Posted by Aardwolf View Post
Sorry for any confusion, I realise carrying a spare tubular is the norm, I wasn't expecting to stitch one on the road.
And I've even got an original Bluemels 3 frame pump that actually works, I used it on the Tufos before I got a track pump.

It's just that I can't see fitting a spare Tufo S33 Pro on the roadside unless I've pre-stretched it and I've got 3 hours to spare.
Maybe I'll learn how to do it some day.

The Monthlery Route are the only tubular rims I've got and they're perfect for my situation so I think I'll be hanging on to them.
Your experience of taking 2 hours to pull off the s33 tire from a Tufo taped tire is the best argument for not using tape at all. It was my experience also. Something that would never be done on the road. Switch to glue and you can change out a tire faster that a clincher tube.

I have two wheelsets with Monthlery Route rims and they are perfect for my weight (180 lbs) and the city roads I frequent.

Have dented my lighter AVA rims hitting bumps. Recommend the Monthlery rims highly. Found mine NOS.

Never had the stretching issues you mentioned. Not sure why you did other than they were Tufos? Donít think any tire maker would recommend stretching by ratcheting with a strap?
obuckler is offline  
Old 04-17-22, 12:52 PM
  #13  
Aardwolf
Old Git
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: London UK
Posts: 234

Bikes: 1982 Holdsworth Avanti

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked 128 Times in 74 Posts
I'm fairly sure it was just a problem with those Tufos, I read others had the same issue eg. NEW tubular stretching ideas? (he sent them back)

Tufo S33 Pro 24mm (25mm mounted).

And here's my solution


Aardwolf is offline  
Old 04-17-22, 02:16 PM
  #14  
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 23,632

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 141 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2999 Post(s)
Liked 2,095 Times in 1,246 Posts
Originally Posted by Aardwolf View Post
Yep, I've heard the theory

I had to stretch the Tufo S33 Pros for 3 days using a ratchet luggage strap before they would go on the rims.
I stretch all my tubulars on rims before mounting them. Some can be quite a struggle; I've found zip-ties to be helpful in holding the tire in place while wrestling rhe last bit onto the rim. Once stretched on the rim for a while, subsequent mounting is much easier.

I took the front one off a few days back - about 2 hours using tyre levers (it was my first time), the Tufo tape came off cleanly though.
I've found that despite the name, the Tufo "Extreme" tape is easier to deal with than the standard Tufo tape, at least with non-Tufo tires.
JohnDThompson is offline  
Old 04-17-22, 02:48 PM
  #15  
Aardwolf
Old Git
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: London UK
Posts: 234

Bikes: 1982 Holdsworth Avanti

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked 128 Times in 74 Posts
Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
I stretch all my tubulars on rims before mounting them. Some can be quite a struggle; I've found zip-ties to be helpful in holding the tire in place while wrestling rhe last bit onto the rim. Once stretched on the rim for a while, subsequent mounting is much easier.



I've found that despite the name, the Tufo "Extreme" tape is easier to deal with than the standard Tufo tape, at least with non-Tufo tires.
Cheers I'll give it a try. I've only taped one set of tyres so far, I haven't tried traditional glueing yet.
Think I'll try the extreme tape and then glueing when one of the new tyres needs replacing if the tape gives trouble.
Aardwolf is offline  
Old 04-19-22, 08:12 AM
  #16  
Aardwolf
Old Git
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: London UK
Posts: 234

Bikes: 1982 Holdsworth Avanti

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked 128 Times in 74 Posts
Looks like HB-RE005 is probably not usable as a 25R standin, I'm definitely no expert but the shape is sufficiently different that I'm going to go with the Ofmega cones.

Campy Record 25/R: 7/32" bearings, 15.8mm diameter, 11.5mm length
Ofmega: 3/16" bearings, 16mm diameter, 12mm length
Campy Record HB-RE005: 7/32" bearings, 15.83mm diameter, 8.93mm length

Aardwolf is offline  
Old 04-27-22, 04:16 AM
  #17  
Aardwolf
Old Git
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: London UK
Posts: 234

Bikes: 1982 Holdsworth Avanti

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked 128 Times in 74 Posts
Vittoria Rubino Pro G+ 28mm went on (fitting test only) just using fingers

At 60 psi it's 27.2mm wide, leaving me 4.5mm clearance - slightly less when I install the glue and inflate some more.
Aardwolf is offline  
Old 05-01-22, 05:14 PM
  #18  
Darme
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 35
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked 14 Times in 10 Posts
Campy hub info



This is is from 1982 campy support publication ..
Darme is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.