Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

How to get rear derailleur cable house to run straight on vintage steel frame?

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

How to get rear derailleur cable house to run straight on vintage steel frame?

Old 04-20-22, 12:20 AM
  #1  
PapaGanoosh
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 153
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
How to get rear derailleur cable house to run straight on vintage steel frame?

I'm trying to build up a vintage steel bike for the first time and got to installing the rear derailleur. However when I tried installing the gear cable and rear derailleur cable housing (this is for downtube shifters) the cable housing that is closest to the crank will not sit flush against the knob in the frame. You can see this in my photos that the cable housing just pushes straight up rather than running smoothly with the gear cable.

I haven't put the chain on yet, but you'll see that if the rear derailleur were in the same position without the wheel in place, the cable housing isn't sitting flush against the little knob where the housing is supposed to sit. On my other vintage bike they run fairly smoothly. I'm not sure what the issue is here and this is my first time building up a frame so help would be appreciated.

Could it be that the cable housing length is still too long? Is my cable tension not tight enough?



PapaGanoosh is offline  
Old 04-20-22, 12:22 AM
  #2  
Mackers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 331
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 107 Post(s)
Liked 82 Times in 65 Posts
You need a stepped ferrule.
Mackers is offline  
Old 04-20-22, 01:37 AM
  #3  
JSL
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 19
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Yep, you need a stepped ferrule to hold it in place. Is that brake or derailleur housing you're using?
JSL is offline  
Old 04-20-22, 01:40 AM
  #4  
PapaGanoosh
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 153
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks, the answer was so simple.

Originally Posted by JSL View Post
Yep, you need a stepped ferrule to hold it in place. Is that brake or derailleur housing you're using?
I believe it's brake housing. Is there a difference if this is for downtube shifters? Should I be using derailleur housing?
PapaGanoosh is offline  
Old 04-20-22, 01:51 AM
  #5  
Andy_K 
Senior Member
 
Andy_K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 13,800

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 447 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2613 Post(s)
Liked 1,963 Times in 832 Posts
Originally Posted by PapaGanoosh View Post
I believe it's brake housing. Is there a difference if this is for downtube shifters? Should I be using derailleur housing?
Brake housing is wider and won't fit in the ferrule you need. Most brake housing also compresses more, but for non-indexed shifting that won't matter.

This is the ferrule you need for that cable stop: https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...&category=1613

__________________
My Bikes
Andy_K is offline  
Old 04-20-22, 01:54 AM
  #6  
Andy_K 
Senior Member
 
Andy_K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 13,800

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 447 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2613 Post(s)
Liked 1,963 Times in 832 Posts
Or with the proper vintage housing, it'll porobably come with the right ferrule.

__________________
My Bikes
Andy_K is offline  
Old 04-20-22, 02:25 AM
  #7  
Road Fan
Senior Member
 
Road Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,041

Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8

Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1508 Post(s)
Liked 409 Times in 318 Posts
And, you really do need derailleur housing!
Road Fan is offline  
Old 04-20-22, 02:26 AM
  #8  
JSL
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 19
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by PapaGanoosh View Post
Thanks, the answer was so simple.



I believe it's brake housing. Is there a difference if this is for downtube shifters? Should I be using derailleur housing?
Derailleur housing is significantly stiffer and will shift better. The stepped ferrule that you need is also usually made for 4mm derailleur hose, though sometimes 5mm can be found.
JSL is offline  
Old 04-20-22, 02:27 AM
  #9  
JSL
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 19
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Andy_K View Post
Or with the proper vintage housing, it'll porobably come with the right ferrule.

These don't traditionally play very well with indexed shifting :-(
JSL is offline  
Old 04-20-22, 05:20 AM
  #10  
ZudeJammer
Senior Member
 
ZudeJammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 264

Bikes: Fuji Touring Series V 1985, Motobecane Grand Touring 1982, Specialized Stumpjumper 1993, Raleigh International 1972, Raleigh Grand Prix 1972, Kuwahara Count 1983, Trek Cirrus 1987

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 79 Post(s)
Liked 118 Times in 69 Posts
alternatively you could just use a cable tie along the chainstay to hold it straight and remove the too big ferrule
ZudeJammer is offline  
Likes For ZudeJammer:
Old 04-20-22, 06:28 AM
  #11  
top506
Death fork? Naaaah!!
 
top506's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: The other Maine, north of RT 2
Posts: 5,128

Bikes: Seriously downsizing.

Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 503 Post(s)
Liked 367 Times in 186 Posts
I suspect that the doll's head cable stop will require a ferrule somewhat smaller than 4mm.

Top
__________________
You know it's going to be a good day when the stem and seatpost come right out.

(looking for a picture and not seeing it? Thank the Photobucket fiasco.PM me and I'll link it up.)
top506 is offline  
Likes For top506:
Old 04-20-22, 06:40 AM
  #12  
smd4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 878

Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Super Corsa

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 501 Post(s)
Liked 308 Times in 220 Posts
Originally Posted by ZudeJammer View Post
alternatively you could just use a cable tie along the chainstay to hold it straight and remove the too big ferrule
Don't take the ziptie shortcut. Get the proper ferrule and the proper rear derailleur housing, and do the job right. Don't use that coiled housing.

It will only cost you a few cents do do the job correctly.
smd4 is online now  
Old 04-20-22, 06:42 AM
  #13  
jamesdak 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Utah
Posts: 7,576

Bikes: Paletti,Pinarello Monviso,Duell Vienna,Giordana XL Super(2)Lemond Maillot Juane (2) & custom,PDG Paramount,Serotta CSI,Fuji Opus III,Davidson Impulse,Pashley Guv'nor,Evans,Fishlips,Prologue TT,Y-Foil,Softride, Tetra Pro, CAAD8 Optimo,Klein Quantum II

Mentioned: 135 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1921 Post(s)
Liked 2,096 Times in 966 Posts
Originally Posted by top506 View Post
I suspect that the doll's head cable stop will require a ferrule somewhat smaller than 4mm.

Top
Yeah, I had a slew of stepper ferrules in my stash of parts but had to seek out one that was "skinnier" for the KHS Aero Comp.


Found it on Ebay....I think.
__________________
Steel is real...and comfy.
jamesdak is offline  
Old 04-20-22, 06:48 AM
  #14  
Chombi1 
Senior Member
 
Chombi1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 3,838
Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1364 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 459 Times in 316 Posts
Originally Posted by smd4 View Post
Don't take the ziptie shortcut. Get the proper ferrule and the proper rear derailleur housing, and do the job right. Don't use that coiled housing.

It will only cost you a few cents do do the job correctly.
I use "coiled" RD cable housing for most of my bikes and do not have any problems with them, plus they look great on a C&V bike.
__________________
72 Line Seeker
83 Davidson Signature
84 Peugeot PSV
84 Peugeot PY10FC
84 Gitane Tour de France.
85 Vitus Plus Carbone 7
86 ALAN Record Carbonio
86 Medici Aerodynamic (Project)
88 Pinarello Montello
89 Bottecchia Professional Chorus SL
95 Trek 5500 OCLV (Project)
Chombi1 is offline  
Likes For Chombi1:
Old 04-20-22, 07:20 AM
  #15  
Aardwolf
Old Git
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: London UK
Posts: 195

Bikes: 1982 Holdsworth Avanti

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked 93 Times in 60 Posts
A small point: bikes older than about 1985 probably used 5mm 'brake' outer for the shift cables.

I tried Shimano shift cables on my 1982 Holdsworth and the outer kept pushing through the cable stop (same position as OP one), then I worked out it was meant to take a 5mm outer since SIS wasn't invented for another few years.
Aardwolf is offline  
Likes For Aardwolf:
Old 04-20-22, 07:48 AM
  #16  
smd4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 878

Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Super Corsa

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 501 Post(s)
Liked 308 Times in 220 Posts
Originally Posted by Chombi1 View Post
I use "coiled" RD cable housing for most of my bikes and do not have any problems with them, plus they look great on a C&V bike.
As noted by JSL above, the compression that comes from coiled cable housing doesn't play well with SIS shifting. That's an SIS derailleur, but if he's using friction shifters, than the coiled housing is OK.
smd4 is online now  
Old 04-20-22, 08:43 AM
  #17  
Classtime 
Senior Member
 
Classtime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,360

Bikes: 82 Medici, 2011 Richard Sachs, 2011 Milwaukee Road

Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1306 Post(s)
Liked 780 Times in 493 Posts
I have used a cable tie to good effect on one bike where the stepped ferrule or any other ferrule and any type of housing just wouldn't run very smoothly.
__________________
I don't do: disks, tubeless, e-shifting, or bead head nymphs.
Classtime is offline  
Old 04-20-22, 08:48 AM
  #18  
mgopack42 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Los Banos, CA
Posts: 794

Bikes: 2020 Argon 18 Krypton Pro, 1985 Masi 3V Volumetrica, 3Rensho Super Record Aero, 2022 Trek District 4.

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 300 Post(s)
Liked 292 Times in 157 Posts
Originally Posted by top506 View Post
I suspect that the doll's head cable stop will require a ferrule somewhat smaller than 4mm.

Top
I call these "diver helmet" stops. I have this on one of my bikes, and when i was switching part, I set the special ferrule aside so aas not to lose it... of course I lost it. any one have a supplier for these special ferrules?
mgopack42 is offline  
Likes For mgopack42:
Old 04-20-22, 08:58 AM
  #19  
smd4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 878

Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Super Corsa

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 501 Post(s)
Liked 308 Times in 220 Posts
Originally Posted by Classtime View Post
I have used a cable tie to good effect on one bike where the stepped ferrule or any other ferrule and any type of housing just wouldn't run very smoothly.
Sure, you can do it, and I'm sure it would be effective. You can also use duct tape for the same purpose. Or glue even. But assuming that cable stop isn't damaged beyond use, I'd try to avoid using things like zip ties or duct tape, and just assemble everything the way it was meant to be assembled. But again, this is just me..
smd4 is online now  
Old 04-20-22, 08:59 AM
  #20  
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 17,408
Mentioned: 113 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2390 Post(s)
Liked 1,308 Times in 987 Posts
Get the chain on to length to assess the loop size.
needs to be fair but not clownish.
I agree a stepped furrel is required
the pre crimped end on the current assembly may need to be cut off, in extreme cases the vinyl coating trimmed back to fit.

we called them Diver's Helmet stops, Campagnolo came up with them.

of course one has to be old enough to recall Diver Dan
repechage is offline  
Old 04-20-22, 09:16 AM
  #21  
smd4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 878

Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Super Corsa

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 501 Post(s)
Liked 308 Times in 220 Posts
I can see the likeness to a diver's helmet; we just called them cable stops.
smd4 is online now  
Old 04-20-22, 10:05 AM
  #22  
RustyJames 
Senior Member
 
RustyJames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 700

Bikes: You had me at rusty and Italian!!

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 271 Post(s)
Liked 411 Times in 224 Posts
I *think* Jagwire makes stepped ferrules?
RustyJames is offline  
Old 04-20-22, 10:34 AM
  #23  
zandoval 
Senior Member
 
zandoval's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bastrop Texas
Posts: 3,120

Bikes: Univega, Peu P6, Peu PR-10, Ted Williams, Peu UO-8, Peu UO-18 Mixte, Peu Dolomites

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 447 Post(s)
Liked 660 Times in 441 Posts
Just do it right. A little Harbor Freight torch and a pinch of silver solder with flux and done.


Brazeons
__________________
No matter where your at... There you are... Δf:=f(1/2)-f(-1/2)
zandoval is offline  
Old 04-20-22, 10:38 AM
  #24  
himespau 
Senior Member
 
himespau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 12,600
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3193 Post(s)
Liked 1,914 Times in 1,117 Posts
Originally Posted by mgopack42 View Post
I call these "diver helmet" stops. I have this on one of my bikes, and when i was switching part, I set the special ferrule aside so aas not to lose it... of course I lost it. any one have a supplier for these special ferrules?
Mine gets transferred between housing as well. Not sure how many times I've used the one in my current diver helmet stop.
himespau is offline  
Old 04-20-22, 10:50 AM
  #25  
noobinsf 
Senior Member
 
noobinsf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 3,014

Bikes: '82 Univega Competizione, '72 Motobecane Grand Record, '83 Mercian KOM Touring, '85 Univega Alpina Uno, '76 Eisentraut Limited

Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 980 Post(s)
Liked 956 Times in 577 Posts
I bought a handful from Velo Orange a few months ago, and it looks like they're still in stock: https://velo-orange.com/collections/...cap-5mm-to-4mm

EDIT: I have a similar diver helmet stop on my Eisentraut, and I am fairly certain I tried one of these ferrules in the stop after I repainted the frame to ensure I hadn't gummed up the works. I would do it again to validate, but right now I need to find the bag of ferrules again within my, ahem, "active project" space.

Last edited by noobinsf; 04-20-22 at 10:54 AM.
noobinsf is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.