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Looking for help to identify my dad's 1940's Bates bicycle

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Looking for help to identify my dad's 1940's Bates bicycle

Old 04-24-22, 12:38 PM
  #1  
RaeAnne50
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Looking for help to identify my dad's 1940's Bates bicycle

I have my dads old Bates racing bike and would like to find out the model etc. I will attach some pics.
Thanks
Rae









Last edited by RaeAnne50; 04-24-22 at 03:11 PM. Reason: need to fix photo
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Old 04-24-22, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by RaeAnne50 View Post
I have my dads old Bates racing bike and would like to find out the model etc. I will attach some pics.
Thanks
Rae


Hello and welcome to the forums. I donít much about them other than Bates are pretty cool bikes.

could you please post some pics of the chain side and maybe a close up of the rear gear changer?
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Old 04-24-22, 01:16 PM
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I don't know anything either. But that front fork is interesting.
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Old 04-24-22, 01:39 PM
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Some info here.
https://www.classiclightweights.co.u...frame-numbers/
Pics show Diadrant fork and Cantiflex tubing. The tubing is larger diameter in the middle, tapers at the ends as well as being internally butted. Reynolds 531 special for Bates.
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Old 04-24-22, 03:05 PM
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Sure I will post more pics but I believe my dad replaced most of the parts. The frame is the most interesting.
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Old 04-24-22, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Chuck M View Post
I don't know anything either. But that front fork is interesting.

I think the fork, like the Hetchins ‘Curly Stays’ and Hellenic stays (triple triangle) dates to era where advertising/endorsements were not allowed in racing so innovative designs to dampen the ride or stiffen the frame evolved which also happened to make the bike stand out from the crowd.

RaeAnne50 thanks for the extra pics. Maybe ijab can shed some light on this
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Old 04-24-22, 05:12 PM
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the link provided by big-chainring would enable you to identify the model, and guide you to the period of manufacture. There are more frame numbers provided in the Readers bikes entries for 1944/5, 1948 and 1950 to help narrow down the year of the sequential frame numbers used by Bates.
A general guide to Bates cycles is at https://www.classiclightweights.co.u.../bates-cycles/
and there is the Bates Cantiflex Diadrant Classic Bicycles group on Facebook which is informative.
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Old 04-24-22, 05:14 PM
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Thank you. This is very helpful.
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Old 04-24-22, 07:03 PM
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-----

the three-pointed star symbol washer on the cycle's Juy Competition front gear mech is something which was only current ca. 1958; the mech's knob changed from metal to ivory coloured plastic ca. 1959-60

a companion Tour de France model rear mech with the three-pointed star is thought is have been current only 1959-61

the cycle's Gnutti splined cotterless chainset is a wonderful piece, rather cutting edge at its launch circa 1951
it was quite costly in the context of the time so only encountered on better model cycles
rare even when current



the machines wheel hubs look to be fitted with Campagnolo brand quick releases
if the hubs themselves are also Campagnolo brand then the axle locknuts will carry a date on their inner faces -




the machine's pedals are Lyotard brand model Marcel Berthet M23 -






the cycle's Weinmann Vainqueur 999 centrepull brake set is a model which was current 1957-1962 -



since several of the bicycle's components are of a date later than you suggested for the machine it is possible that is is a bit later than you thought...

...or it may be that it was upgraded with newer fittings along the way

the forum's experts shall be able to give you much more and better assistance

-----
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Old 04-24-22, 11:01 PM
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Based on the frame number it is 1944/45 frame build, with later components.

Last edited by Big Block; 04-25-22 at 03:31 PM.
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Old 04-25-22, 06:33 AM
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-----

thanks very much for this dating information.

the cycle appears to wear no fittings which go back to that time

so the two main possibilities would seem to be that either it hung in the racks for a long period unbuilt or received a complete reworking about 1958


-----
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Old 04-25-22, 06:51 AM
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Sorry new to this forum and not sure how to use it yet. My apologies.
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Old 04-25-22, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by juvela View Post
so the two main possibilities would seem to be that either it hung in the racks for a long period unbuilt or received a complete reworking about 1958
The OP mentioned that the father replaced most of the parts over time, as most riders would during that period if they continuously rode. I obsessively watch eBay UK and get the VCC quarterly advertisements, and what seems to be a primary reason why most dealers selling postwar British bicycles as framesets is because typically they are no longer equipped with period-correct components, which is obviously the fashionable thing to do these days when restoring them. The 1954 Carlton Super Python I just refinished was on the road until just before the dealer sold it to me, and it was equipped with a mix of 1970s-80s components that the previous owner was using to keep it reliable. That's a common story for nice older British frames, which individual men or multiple generations of users have kept on the road for decades.

I see no reason why a Canadian rider would not follow along in that fashion for at least some time! The Bates looks well equipped and that's a lovely example. Other users have already filled you in on the details, so good luck with whatever you plan to do with it. Cheers!

-Gregory
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Old 04-25-22, 08:19 AM
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Thanks for all the feedback. My dad raced for many years in Scotland, time trials and road racing?
He actually picked the bike up at a garage sale
I really donít know what to do with it except sell it. My family doesnít want it. I donít really even know how to go about finding a collector.
Thanks again everyone for your input.
Rae
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Old 04-25-22, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by RaeAnne50 View Post
Thanks for all the feedback. My dad raced for many years in Scotland, time trials and road racing?
He actually picked the bike up at a garage sale
I really donít know what to do with it except sell it. My family doesnít want it. I donít really even know how to go about finding a collector.
Thanks again everyone for your input.
Rae
-----

thank you for this additional information

if you are curious as to the cycle's value, salability, etc you could begin a discussion on it at the C&V Appraisals forum:

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...th-appraisals/

in addition to value readers could make suggestions regarding where and how to list it for sale with the plusses and minuses of each

-----
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Old 04-25-22, 01:51 PM
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Looks like the Facebook group would have info

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2106695046261257/
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Old 04-25-22, 02:33 PM
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Money shot


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Old 04-25-22, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by merziac View Post
Money shot


showing the GB hiduminium 'Spearpoint' stem, unknown steel handlebars with a GB Pelissier ferrule (separated from the intended GB Pelissier bend hiduminium handlebar)
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Old 04-25-22, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Block View Post
showing the GB hiduminium 'Spearpoint' stem, unknown steel handlebars with a GB Pelissier ferrule (separated from the intended GB Pelissier bend hiduminium handlebar)
Yep, knew in the back of my mind, the part that only kind of still works ok that something was hinky.

Still pretty cool as I don't think I had seen a GB version ala Titan of that ferrule before, no surprise the bars gave up.
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Old 04-25-22, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by merziac View Post
Yep, knew in the back of my mind, the part that only kind of still works ok that something was hinky.

Still pretty cool as I don't think I had seen a GB version ala Titan of that ferrule before, no surprise the bars gave up.
The ferrules were promoted like this to allay the fears of using these 'new' alloy bars.

Source; 1949 Holdsworth Aids to Happy Cycling reproduced on Disraeli Gears site


I have the GB Spearpoint stem and GB Maes bend bars with ferrule on my 1948 Spearman.

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Old 04-26-22, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by RaeAnne50 View Post
I have my dads old Bates racing bike and would like to find out the model etc. I will attach some pics.
Thanks
Rae








That is a really lovely bike! Would love to have it in my collection but I fear I don't have the room!
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